 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rambotrader, I'd be somewhat surprised if there's a Citibank ATM anywhere in France.
Hang out in the bars and you are reasonably likely to meet someone who thinks they know their way around. Whether it's a good plan to ski with them is your call.
There's a supermarket in Argentiere. 
There was a Verbier bus scheduled on a Thursday I think this season. I don't know how often it broke down, but it was scheduled.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the info. I'd be sure there would be an ATM which worked for multi banks. If not then Geneva airport would have to do.
The bars might work but I'd be hoping that this community might have some intrepid souls who are skiers and ski the glaciers and off piste areas. Certainly hope that I do not have to find like minded souls in the bars as I might be leading them after a few drinks. 
Thanks for the thumbs up about the supermarket in Argentiere. Just wondering if this is like a corner shop or a proper supermarket which sells food at affordable prices.
Your description of the Verbier bus service sounds a bit sus. Not too sure if that is good idea if unreliable. Nothing worse in the snow than being stranded away from home.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I got a reply from Ski Club of Great Britain which suggested 400-450 euros. I agree that 85 euros is in the ballpark though. Certainly for a oncer. Thanks for the link. Appreciated.
But would be nice to find a nice ski group. Same for my intermediate skier wife. We'll see if somebody has leads. It's a big world! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's about €400 for the group, or for one person private. But if you don't want private, then pay €85 to join a group.
The VB has a reputation for being easy, most intermediate skiers could do it but I don't know anyone who would go up there without a local guide. I assume that's the sort of thing you're talking about?
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Another option would be to do a few courses with Avalanche Academy - each day with them is a full day out with a local guide, and you can meet locals/seasonnaires on those courses - I met quite a few, and had ski offers after. If you want to do a few courses/days, email them and ask if you could maybe have a discount, they may agree. http://www.avalancheacademy.com/
Yes, it's specific training, but also a huge amount of skiing and local area knowledge being imparted. Last year I was lucky enough to end up doing a touring version of the "Progression" day, which was utterly brilliant. I've also done the 'normal' days too, with a different guide each time, and learned so much about the area, as well as skiing lots of new parts of the valley/ski areas. The Crevasse Rescue day will include glacier skiing if conditions allow.
Also do register your details in this thread: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=98245
That'll help snowheads find you/you find other snowheads. It's a bit early in the year yet though.
If I'm in Chamonix this winter I'd be happy to meet up for a ski, but I've no idea if I'll be there yet...!
Banks - plenty of ATMs all over the place, for lots of different banks. It's a big tourist town, I'm sure there will be at least one that will work for you.
Food shopping - probably the best value in the town itself would be at the Carrefour near Cham Sud. Stop "Le Betty" on this map - http://chamonix.montblancbus.com/en/bus-network#/
If your in Argentiere though, just shop at the nearest place!
Also join the Chamonix Facebook group, and register for BlaBlaCar - you might be able to jump in with people doing big food shop outside the valley:
- https://www.facebook.com/groups/chamonix.skibums/
- https://www.blablacar.fr/
Verbier - can organise group trips on the above too, but I've heard the Thursday shuttle was generally fine (I've not used it, I always drive or went in a friends car).
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1. Take a Visa card.
2. Just follow off the lift any group that looks sick.
3. Lots of supermarkets in walking distance.
4. Plenty of buses or taxis go to Verb. Cost is anywhere from €20-400 return.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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[quote="Whitegold"] 2. Just follow off the lift any group that looks sick.
I'm always careful to do this - I really don't understand why I get hurt so often! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have a Citibank debit card. Pretty well works anywhere else in the world so hoping I can use it in France.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@rambotrader, I'd be somewhat surprised if there's a Citibank ATM anywhere in France.
Hang out in the bars and you are reasonably likely to meet someone who thinks they know their way around. Whether it's a good plan to ski with them is your call.
There's a supermarket in Argentiere.
There was a Verbier bus scheduled on a Thursday I think this season. I don't know how often it broke down, but it was scheduled. |
Thanks for the info Freerider.
If worst comes to worst I assume there is a Citibank ATM at Geneva Airport. Given you are a local any ideas there?
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| moseyp wrote: |
It's about €400 for the group, or for one person private. But if you don't want private, then pay €85 to join a group.
The VB has a reputation for being easy, most intermediate skiers could do it but I don't know anyone who would go up there without a local guide. I assume that's the sort of thing you're talking about? |
I was sort of thinking I'd go up and follow a group down. Yeah....they might end up doing cliff jumps (not me!) but I can pretty well handle most conditions other than ice, for whoch my allmountain skis are crap.
Is that an insane idea? 
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You know it makes sense.
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| fixx wrote: |
Another option would be to do a few courses with Avalanche Academy - each day with them is a full day out with a local guide, and you can meet locals/seasonnaires on those courses - I met quite a few, and had ski offers after. If you want to do a few courses/days, email them and ask if you could maybe have a discount, they may agree. http://www.avalancheacademy.com/
Yes, it's specific training, but also a huge amount of skiing and local area knowledge being imparted. Last year I was lucky enough to end up doing a touring version of the "Progression" day, which was utterly brilliant. I've also done the 'normal' days too, with a different guide each time, and learned so much about the area, as well as skiing lots of new parts of the valley/ski areas. The Crevasse Rescue day will include glacier skiing if conditions allow.
Also do register your details in this thread: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=98245
That'll help snowheads find you/you find other snowheads. It's a bit early in the year yet though.
If I'm in Chamonix this winter I'd be happy to meet up for a ski, but I've no idea if I'll be there yet...!
Banks - plenty of ATMs all over the place, for lots of different banks. It's a big tourist town, I'm sure there will be at least one that will work for you.
Food shopping - probably the best value in the town itself would be at the Carrefour near Cham Sud. Stop "Le Betty" on this map - http://chamonix.montblancbus.com/en/bus-network#/
If your in Argentiere though, just shop at the nearest place!
Also join the Chamonix Facebook group, and register for BlaBlaCar - you might be able to jump in with people doing big food shop outside the valley:
- https://www.facebook.com/groups/chamonix.skibums/
- https://www.blablacar.fr/
Verbier - can organise group trips on the above too, but I've heard the Thursday shuttle was generally fine (I've not used it, I always drive or went in a friends car). |
Thanks superSnowhead. Information wonderful for a first timer. I have checked in on skibums group.
Would love to catch up if you are around Feb. or March 2017. Cheers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rambotrader wrote: |
| I have a Citibank debit card. Pretty well works anywhere else in the world so hoping I can use it in France. |
The citibank card I used to have had Mastercard branding too. I'd guess your Citibank card either has that or a Visa logo on it. In which case it will work in most ATMs worldwide, including those in France The only place I've ever found problems using Mastercard/Visa (not just citibank) has been in the US and in dodgy central African countries.
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Poster: A snowHead
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My Citibank card is a debit card with a Visa logo. I am hopeful it is going to work but nothing worse than rocking up to somewhere new and having no money. At any rate could not be any worse than Japan where cash is generally the only accepted form of payment, with hotels about the only exception.
I am sure Geneva Airport will have a Citibank ATM but will still need a Chamonix facility with a 2 month stay. The joys of travelling.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I was sort of thinking I'd go up and follow a group down. Yeah....they might end up doing cliff jumps (not me!) but I can pretty well handle most conditions other than ice, for whoch my allmountain skis are crap.
Is that an insane idea?
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Depends on what you mean - if you're talking about skiing off the top of the Grand Motets, you won't need to follow a group or hire a guide. If you're talking about the VB, I would absolutely not recommend following a group or skiing it alone
@under a new name, I have a Diners, and I don't have too much trouble using it in Europe. I did have another issue in Zurich airport though where I wasn't allowed into the lounge because my flight was economy class. Don't know about amex cards but I've seen them used in Italy a bit by friends who insist on paying for everything because of some loyalty scheme with an airline or something
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks. Am thinking of Valle Blanche I guess. I imagine it is possible to follow a group down and that the right way down will be well tracked. So are there many different safe paths to the bottom....not that one actually goes to the bottom from what I understand?
My card is a debit card. I know the credit cards will work (if taken) but one of the posters above said debit cards (requiring an ATM) would not.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rambotrader, as long as your debit card is Visa or MasterCard issued, you won't have a problem using ATMs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rambotrader, if you're alone and fall into a crevasse, there won't be anyone to help you. Also, I suspect most guides won't appreciate you following their group without paying. Living in Chamonix is pretty expensive anyway, €85 for a morning on the VB is one of the better value deals you'll pay for there
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rambotrader wrote: |
| Thanks. Am thinking of Valle Blanche I guess. I imagine it is possible to follow a group down and that the right way down will be well tracked. So are there many different safe paths to the bottom....not that one actually goes to the bottom from what I understand? |
No, no no no no - not the first time down, for so many reasons...
1. You won't be able to - any half decentand you really don't want to follow a bad guide, if they even exist guide will spot what you're up to, and not allow it - depending on the group they'll either rush off, or wave you ahead of them:
- it can be dangerous to have unknown people travelling above/behind you who may cause issues that their group below could get caught up in
- becoming a guide is a very long, difficult and expensive process. They won't take kindly to people trying to take advantage of all they have put into their qualifications for free
- their duty is to their paying clients, who I doubt would appreciate paying for a guide who is then also leading random other people for free...
2. There are multiple routes down - you don't know where the group you are following may be going. It might be something out of your comfort zone; they may be skiing down part way to then skin up somewhere; they may be going off to inspect/train in crevasses etc.; they could be speed skiers jumping off a cliff!
3. Equipment and safety - a guide will be prepared and have appropriate spare kit for the group and the route they have planned inc. harnesses, ropes, rescue kit, etc. They won't have spare for you if you need it.
4. Enjoyment - the classic route is not difficult, the pleasure of it is in the journey and views. Which you won't be able to appreciate if you are constantly trying to avoid being spotted/waved ahead/working out what group to follow/where tracks might go/if there is a crevasse over the next rise etc. A guide will sort all that for you, and so you are simply left to enjoy the ski.
- also the walk down the first path can be intimidating if you aren't used to it. Sometimes you will really appreciate being roped up in a group and led down!
Once you've done it once with a guide, if you feel comfortable route finding yourself then by all means go ahead and ski it on your own (at your own risk). But it's madness to do that first time.
As a side note - please don't ever just follow tracks anywhere in Chamonix, unless you know yourself where you are going. There are quite a few speed skiers/parapentistes in Chamonix, and tracks may literally go off a cliff. There are a lot of very big cliffs...
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 23-07-16 11:47; edited 4 times in total
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| moseyp wrote: |
| @rambotrader, if you're alone and fall into a crevasse, there won't be anyone to help you. Also, I suspect most guides won't appreciate you following their group without paying. Living in Chamonix is pretty expensive anyway, €85 for a morning on the VB is one of the better value deals you'll pay for there |
+1
Also, it's not just what you are paying for on that day. The guides are the ones who set up the VB at the start of the season to make it safe to ski in the first place. They are the ones who go and dig out the access path, set up the ropes, ski all the routes and variations at their own risk to find out how the glacier has moved, what crevasses are where, which have grown, what new ones have opened up etc, and then work out the safest routes to take clients down. And they continue to do this all winter for the benefit of all those people who want to ski it. It's a big, and dangerous, job.
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One more - here's a report on what can happen. This is actually a friend of mine, he's still in Chamonix. He knew the route well, and still ended up in a crevasse. Sobering reading and viewing. Thankfully he wasn't on his own, but with other experienced people - he was still very lucky though.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/vallee-blanche-crevasse-danger-rescue-video
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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From memory, there is a lovely scenic train that goes from Argentiere, up to the Swiss border, then down to Le Chable, from where you can get a skilift up to Verbier. Did it once about 15 yr ago, and it was fantastic!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| stephen buck wrote: |
| From memory, there is a lovely scenic train that goes from Argentiere, up to the Swiss border, then down to Le Chable, from where you can get a skilift up to Verbier. Did it once about 15 yr ago, and it was fantastic! |
Thanks Stephen. Good thought and will keep it in mind.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would be surprised if a guide would really allow a person on their own to kill themselves.
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Of course the guides will do everything necessary to save people who are in difficulty. As a paying customer, though, I cannot help feeling slightly resentful when the guide I am employing gets diverted. This has happened to me more than once, including an occasion when the person in difficulty had blatantly followed our group down a difficult glacier and then lost a ski. He wasn't even insured for the helicopter rescue that was necessary, so compensating our group for the loss of valuable guided off-piste skiing time probably didn't cross his mind.
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Fair enough comment.
I have sort of made the decision that I'll need to take the guide option (thanks fixx) but will be hoping to link up with a ski group as 2 months of guiding is not in the budget. Great for local jobs maybe but only so much the finances can withstand.
Those of us who have been skiing a long time will appreciate the fact that skiers are fair game but pushing skiers into high cost guiding is not fair. Sure the guides train for this but then so do many other parts of society. I would hardly even try to compare guides with doctors and charging like a wounded bull at Pamplona is not what skiing should be all about. This sadly is how the industry seems to function worldwide.
Sorry. I get a bit excited with this wonderful sport at times. I will get into at least one or two guided group. It would be wonderful if there were a season pass for this but suspect otherwise. Please drag me out of a hole if I end up in one though. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I get a bit excited with this wonderful sport at times
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I don't get your rant about guides. Absolutely nobody is "pushing you into high cost guiding". Many people ski (very well) in Chamonix without venturing into the glaciated territory where guides are essential. For an occasional foray into the VB, join a group. Your intermediate sker wife could do it too - some routes are easier than others; just need to join the right group (and have a head for heights for the arete),
There will certainly be folks in a bar with whom you could join up and do the VB - and other hairy stuff - without a guide. People (including guides, sometimes) are killed in Chamonix in significant numbers, all year round.
Check that your insurance covers "out of bounds" off piste skiing and glaciated territory.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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"My skiing is approaching instructor level."
So not necessarily that strong then?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
"My skiing is approaching instructor level."
So not necessarily that strong then? |
Funny.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think he was joking.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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But seriously, @rambotrader, some entry level quals aren't that strong, so as statements go ... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not sure what the instructors are like in Europe as will be first time there. Given that skiing is a national obsession in a few countries I doubt that instructors are crap skiers. Bravado fine but reality better.
I've seen what 90% of people ski like: crap! Sorry to be clinical but that's the reality of people who show up for a week a year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Those of us who have been skiing a long time will appreciate the fact that skiers are fair game but pushing skiers into high cost guiding is not fair. Sure the guides train for this but then so do many other parts of society. I would hardly even try to compare guides with doctors and charging like a wounded bull at Pamplona is not what skiing should be all about. This sadly is how the industry seems to function worldwide.
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I don't think you appreciate how difficult it is to become a guide, how dangerous their work can be, and the value of putting your life into their hands.
€85 for several hours on the VB with a guide is hardly extortionate - I'd go so far as to say it's not even expensive. I pay €80 for ten minutes with my GP. Some people pay several times that for half a day with a ski instructor. It's hardly only for the wealthy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Out of interest rambotrader, have you raised this debate over at TGR?
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Not knocking the guides. Also would not knock doctors, accountants and lawyers.
The point I was making is that skiing is a business where skiers are fleeced at almost every turn. Accommodation charges for the most part are ridiculous and paying US $700 a day for an instructor (who gets maybe $100 of that) is a rip off. Group lessons are not much better.
Please don't try and sell the highly credentialled guides. Whilst I understand these guys need to have a high degree of competence the point I am making is SO DO OTHER PROFESSIONS WHICH CHARGE A HECK OF A LOT LESS.
85 euros is not exactly cheap......although not cheap for a couple of hours and 1 run down the hill. Maybe ask the guides what they actually get. Not a real lot I'd venture to say.
I do expect a little value for money as I do not mint the stuff and save hard for our 2 month stay in the snow.
It sounds like you might have a vested interest moseyp?
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| moseyp wrote: |
| Out of interest rambotrader, have you raised this debate over at TGR? |
TGR?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Whilst I understand these guys need to have a high degree of competence the point I am making is SO DO OTHER PROFESSIONS WHICH CHARGE A HECK OF A LOT LESS.
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What is the relevance?
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although not cheap for a couple of hours and 1 run down the hill.
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One run down a hill doesn't describe the VB in any form. What do you actually think it is?
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Maybe ask the guides what they actually get.
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What are you talking about? They're self employed
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I do expect a little value for money as I do not mint the stuff and save hard for our 2 month stay in the snow.
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Fair enough, but if you can't afford it then you can't afford to do it. I can't afford to go heliskiing, so I'm not going to sneak into a helicopter and hide out until it drops me on the Porta Nera
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Teton Gravity Research forums
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FAQ
Any leads?
