 Poster: A snowHead
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[20/01: headline updated following confirmation of deaths] Another avalanche this morning in the Lanchettes (Les Arcs domain) off-piste couloir. Rumours of people buried, certainly lots of activity in the area, plus a helicopter.
But I've only just got back so I'll make a call and see if anyone was caught up in it. Same place as the Ski Beat (?) rep was killed last year, I think.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 20-01-06 13:23; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PG, is that off the back down towards the nature reserve area?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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First "semi official" report (from a piste security contact) ...
Several people buried following an avalanche in the Combe des Lanchettes off piste route. Two deaths reported so far.
The source - many, many years working piste security at Les Arcs - was horrified that people could have chosen today, given the conditions, to take this route. Heavy snowfall barely 24 hours earlier, much warmer temperatures... a recipe for disaster.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar.org.uk, yes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was up at Arc 2000 this morning. The pisteurs were setting off regular explosions. The huge rumble and vibration of the slides that followed could be heard/felt miles away. That alone was enough to stop me from skiing more than a metre off-piste today. If that's not enough, there were signs everywhere pointing out the elevated risk. Why do people do it?
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PG, Very sad, one could ask why but the answers are obvious. Last week in Reberty we shared with a lovley bunch of lads from the midlands. Ages: mid 20s to mid 40s. Nearley all profficient boarders. Despite aiming to do predominantly off piste powder none had done any avalanche awerness training, and none carried any recovery gear. Avalanche risk didn't even occur to them.
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PG, Sad - sorry I spoke now! Some of the slides around here are HUGE!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tragic 
I guess that some tough questions will be asked if they were skiing with a guide.
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PG, irresponsible of the guide then to take them there
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Very sad to hear this and odd that we never really hear anything about it on UK news broadcasts.
Not knowing much about avalanches - how much snow fell within the 24 hours to make it so dangerous? and how did warmer temperatures effect the snow?
Cheers,
Chris
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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blondends, approximately 45cm fell in that region over the last couple of days, but more than that could have accumulated in the terrain they were skiing when caught in the avalanche. Heavy snow followed by warmer temperatures can help to contribute to a weak layer where the new snow does not bond very well to the old snow that it fell on to. The passage of a skier in an area where there is a heavy load of snow on top of a weak bond can trigger a slide.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Scary bananas ! I know they can never be failsafe but you'd like to think if you hire a guide they won't take you anywhere obviously hairy, wouldn't you ?
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You know it makes sense.
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While waiting for 'official' confirmation, I see on the website of the ski school in question that their security pack includes 'airbags'. fat lot of good it did them, if that's the case.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PG, any idea what the official avalanche risk was at the time?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sounds like it may not have been the fault of the guide but of boarders further up setting it off onto them. I remember being with a guide on an off piste face, we having specifically entered it a bit lower down to avoid a area he thought was suspect, and his fury when a group above us entered exactly that area, puting us in danger. He quickly took us away to one side as far as possible till they got to our level and then skied accross and shouted at them. They had been completely oblivious of the danger.
Mind you, I suppose with more people venturing off-piste with little knowledge perhaps a guide has to take idiots into account even far from any piste as this was.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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a bit harsh Helen, we don't know enough detail. for all we know the guide could have done a risk assesment, dug a pit etc and decided the slope was ok, only for a 3rd party to trigger a slide above them.
regards,
greg
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick, it's been at level 4 since yesterday... this photo (click to enlarge) taken yesterday afternoon up at Arc 2000. It's not as if you can miss them, they're all over.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just talked to nbt who was taking the Lanchettes lift up from 2000 to rejoin the Aiguille Rouge down to Villaroger mid-morning. He was just behind a group of 4 or 5 youngsters (skiers) who may have been with a guide, and who headed straight across the piste in the direction of the couloirs on the other side. Could have been them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can only twice in all my years of off-piste skiing with guides remember a guide digging a pit (other than on a snowcraft course), and both times it was to demonstrate to us a weak layer he already knew was under the snow. Other than the particular characteristics of the slope, knowing the history of the wind and snowfall and temperature over previous weeks is what guides go by.
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PisteHors reports a total of five deaths today, in four avalanches.
Please don't let it be you; read all you can (on here and PisteHors) get some snowcraft training and just turn back when the Risk Level goes above 3.
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Yes and there have also been reports of a slide crossing a piste in Les Contamines, plus an ongoing search at Flaine after a big slide there. And someone on Skipass has reported an avalanche from the Combe de Bellacha in La Clusaz... Let's hope the death toll doesn't rise any further....
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Good god - a guide (though he survived, possibly due to his airbag) and two members of the ski patrol (1 dead) caught in avalanches in a single day...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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La Clusaz - unofficial report that one person was buried, but rescued.
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| PG wrote: |
| Nick, it's been at level 4 since yesterday... this photo (click to enlarge) taken yesterday afternoon up at Arc 2000. It's not as if you can miss them, they're all over. |
PG, thanks. Sobering stuff.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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2 dead in LDA according to PisteHors, looks like Easiskis earlier predictions are sadly true.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hibernia, well, to repeat my thoughts in the SCGB thread on this...
If had been with a guide, but saw the Risk Level was 4, I might have gone with him - on the grounds that the Risk Level is general, but he knew the specific area. Of course, I know there is a risk, off piste, that's why we carry kit. But I think i would have gone.
But I want to learn from the more experienced here. Off-piste is risky, but I don't wish to be foolhardy. Would you guys accompany a local guide at Risk Level 4? What level (with a local guide) is acceptable to you?
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You know it makes sense.
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looking at the story, it's debatable. Most of the lift-sevred off piste within the ski area here is tracked out already - the only untoiched bits seem to be the flat bits and the bits that need a bit ot effort to reach,
on the other hand, the sounds of avalanche blasting has geon on all day, especially around the arc2000 bowl, and the results were clearly visible - an awful lot of snow was avalanching.
despite that, these guys went out with a local guide, and I personally would trust a local guide - especially if, as has been suggested, the slide was caused by people *above* the group who were caught with such awful consequences
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I don't know the full story about our pisteur yet - I'd heard the rumour and hoped it wasn't true, but Piste-Hors confirms it. this will rock the whole community.
Nick Zotov, I might go with a local guide on risk 4 - but I wouldn't go with me!
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brian
brian
Guest
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I see the police are investigating the Les Arcs incident.
Hypothetically, if a reckless group triggered a slide above a safer slope which killed others, would the reckless be liable to be prosecuted ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wonder how the authorities look at ski schools' responsibilities in cases like this. Not referring to this catastrophe in particular, I've got no idea what the regulations are in terms of duty of care, etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| brian wrote: |
I see the police are investigating the Les Arcs incident.
Hypothetically, if a reckless group triggered a slide above a safer slope which killed others, would the reckless be liable to be prosecuted ? |
Perhaps DG, who has acted as an expert witness in such types of cases, might offer some general commens ( if it is not sub-judice, etc... ). ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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He's a qualified high mountain guide? A snow science and/or avalanche dynamics expert? Well, he's certainly been keeping that one under his hat!...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| PG wrote: |
| I wonder how the authorities look at ski schools' responsibilities in cases like this. Not referring to this catastrophe in particular, I've got no idea what the regulations are in terms of duty of care, etc. |
You can probably google for it or I'm sure Davidoff has covered it before. But, I'm pretty sure French authorities have pursued cases in the past on people for triggering avalanches.
....
found it on pistehors, here
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'If' the avalanche was triggered from above. I was wondering more whether there could be a case against a guide for taking this route, given the conditions.
Main report updated. If this latest information is accurate (Gendarmerie source) you have to wonder whether the ARVAs both malfunctioned, or whether they were switched on?
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Nick Zotov, i would go with a guide at level 4 but i wouldn't expect to be doing anything too exciting. if i was making the decisions; i'd keep to slopes of 20ish degrees or less, with minimal objective dangers. presence of trees would also be a positive
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not like this then.
I watched this guy come down, on his own, today up in the 2000 bowl at Les Arcs. Missed the steepest section, it had flattened out by the time I took the shot.
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I'd agree with Arno, but be careful assuming trees give you some protection, remember the massive slide in Colorado last spring, that was in /just above trees, and I've also seen video of someone following tracks into trees when the slope goes and takes them into the trees. I guess if the avalanche didn't hurt you, bashing into trees would!
Regards,
Greg
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