 Poster: A snowHead
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Finally got round to booking ski flights for next Feb half term, but there's a catch. It'w with Ryanair and they seem to have developed a shocking reputation since I last used them about 15 years ago. It's one of their new routes that I booked (MAN-NUE) so I'm doubly worried that they might not sell enough tickets before the route starts in November and just bin it and leave us in the lurch.
Anyone got anything reassuring to say about them?
cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The "shocking" reputation has been created mainly by the tabloid press; and by those minority of passengers who can't read and/or think they are special snowflakes to whom the rules don't apply. 
In reality, Ryanair have helped to revolutionise the airline biz in Europe; and have opened-up hundreds of new routes. And they have often offered very good pricing indeed, provided you don't book at the last minute for a flight during a school holiday.
A short-haul flight is basically a bus with wings (as Michael O'Leary put it). So don't expect much, and you won't be disappointed.
A couple of years ago I sat next to a guy on a flight who was a maintenance engineer — and his company serviced many different airlines. He said that Ryanair was considered one of the safest in the industry, as they always brought new planes, and maintained them to a very high standard, and that way they got the best resale price. Plus the pilots did so many take-off and landings, they had loads of experience.
So don't worry, I've flown with them numerous times, and never had an issue. Plus they have now put Mr O'Leary out to pasture, and a new, friendly, management team have taken over.
Plus MAN and NUE are two, well-established airports, and many airlines are now opening up routes from non-London airports as it's so hard to get landing slots. I doubt they would suddenly pull the plug without giving it a good go for a year or two at least.
Well done for planning so far in advance — that's how you get the best deal. Enjoy.
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Where are you going to ski? Isn't it likely to be quite a drive from Nuremburg?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They are the worst airline in the Western Hemisphere.
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| PeDaSp wrote: |
The "shocking" reputation has been created mainly by the tabloid press; and by those minority of passengers who can't read and/or think they are special snowflakes to whom the rules don't apply.
In reality, Ryanair have helped to revolutionise the airline biz in Europe; and have opened-up hundreds of new routes. And they have often offered very good pricing indeed, provided you don't book at the last minute for a flight during a school holiday.
A short-haul flight is basically a bus with wings (as Michael O'Leary put it). So don't expect much, and you won't be disappointed.
A couple of years ago I sat next to a guy on a flight who was a maintenance engineer — and his company serviced many different airlines. He said that Ryanair was considered one of the safest in the industry, as they always brought new planes, and maintained them to a very high standard, and that way they got the best resale price. Plus the pilots did so many take-off and landings, they had loads of experience.
So don't worry, I've flown with them numerous times, and never had an issue. Plus they have now put Mr O'Leary out to pasture, and a new, friendly, management team have taken over.
Plus MAN and NUE are two, well-established airports, and many airlines are now opening up routes from non-London airports as it's so hard to get landing slots. I doubt they would suddenly pull the plug without giving it a good go for a year or two at least.
Well done for planning so far in advance — that's how you get the best deal. Enjoy. |
Have they revolutionisedthe airline industry in Europe? Without doubt.
Have they been guilty of setting out to deliberately antagonise customers? Well the weight of numbers would suggest almost certainly so. They have offered, at times, a simply awful flight experience which is exactly why they were painted as the 'nasty' airline. This reputation forced them to admit they had offered a cheap yet sometimes horrible service and they changed tack and have improved (slightly) their approach where they no longer treat all customers as potential rule breakers.
Are they cheap? Yes. Are they sometimes horrible? Yes.
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Flown with Ryanair many times. Never had any problems at all. Almost all the complaints they receive are, as PEDASP wrote due to lazy ignorant people who didn't read the T & C's when booking then cried when they got "caught out".
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If you trust someone who works in the airline industry so knows the aviation industry quite well, I would not use Ryanair if they were my only way out of somewhere. I say no more. I even know crew who have since left the company and would not use them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| Flown with Ryanair many times. Never had any problems at all. Almost all the complaints they receive are, as PEDASP wrote due to lazy ignorant people who didn't read the T & C's when booking then cried when they got "caught out". |
I also have to laugh at this comment sorry. Again customers using airline s just see a cheap fare and think that the T and C are OK and so are good to go? People are very shallow when it comes to safety and simply see the fare and that's all. Very sad really. I am more concerned about my safety on a flight than how much it is costing me.
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In the past they ran a good value and highly efficient organisation but seemed to derive pleasure from punishing passengers for the slightest error. Now, they still run a highly efficient airline but have dramatically softened their image/rules and improved customer relations. Check your booking very carefully, be sure to print your boarding cards and you will have a good flight. I wouldn't worry about it for a second.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@emmaski, how does their safety record compare with industry norms? You've offered one anonymous opinion but I've not seen evidence that aligns with that.
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You know it makes sense.
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@emmaski, What makes you think their safety standards are any lower than any other UK airline? A fried of mine is a training captain with Ryanair and he's never had the slightest concern. I've never read anything in the press to suggest safety is an issue. The reason there are more comments about price, service and the T'&Cs is twofold. 1. Nobody other than you seems to have any reason for concern and 2. That wasn't what the OP was asking. If you have evidence to support your comments then let's hear it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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An airline has it's regulations that it needs to comply with, the CAA are the regulators in the UK etc etc. However each airline conducts it's own "in house" training within these guidlines but in different ways. This forum is not the place to go into details of how airlines conduct themselves for eg in an emergency or how they conduct their safety and security, pressure on crew to turn around an aircraft in record time at airports. All I know is that if I had to put my family on a flight, I know who it would be an not be with.I know crew pressure and stress is a factor in this. As we all know there are airlines we prefer flying with around the world and those we don't. I know crew who are flying for various airlines and yes it is their job but beyond that do not agree with how their rosters and procedures are conducted. We have seen stories in the press recently who are worked like dogs and the old "swiss cheese effect" comes into things and ends in disaster and seems to be down to how their rostering dept is conducted and whilst work inside of their countries regulations is not necessarily safe. It seems that other airlines in the world are now raising concerns. I prefer to fly with an airline I know is safe and conducts itself AS BEST IT CAN considering what the regulators (the CAA and other authorities) give them. Nothing wrong with that I'm afraid. Price will always be a lower priority for me over my sense of safety etc once I get onboard an aircraft. The problem will always start and end with the authorities that put in place these regulations. The management of airlines does play a big part of this and unfortunately passengers just see price.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 4-04-16 8:13; edited 3 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| PeDaSp wrote: |
The "shocking" reputation has been created mainly by the tabloid press; and by those minority of passengers who can't read and/or think they are special snowflakes to whom the rules don't apply.
In reality, Ryanair have helped to revolutionise the airline biz in Europe; and have opened-up hundreds of new routes. And they have often offered very good pricing indeed, provided you don't book at the last minute for a flight during a school holiday.
A short-haul flight is basically a bus with wings (as Michael O'Leary put it). So don't expect much, and you won't be disappointed.
A couple of years ago I sat next to a guy on a flight who was a maintenance engineer — and his company serviced many different airlines. He said that Ryanair was considered one of the safest in the industry, as they always brought new planes, and maintained them to a very high standard, and that way they got the best resale price. Plus the pilots did so many take-off and landings, they had loads of experience.
So don't worry, I've flown with them numerous times, and never had an issue. Plus they have now put Mr O'Leary out to pasture, and a new, friendly, management team have taken over.
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^ This.
I had a few bad experiences with them a number of years ago but once the penny dropped that treating customers with contempt was actually bad for the business then things definitely got much better:-
“If I had known being nice to customers would work so well I would have started many years ago,”
There is no longer the hell of the boarding gate with jumped up jobsworths marching up and down the line measuring every bag and trying to slap charges anything they can find. On a short flight they are perfectly fine. I'm using them for a flight to Faro this summer and managed to bag row 2 DEF (bulkhead, lots of legroom) when bookings opened. The overall cost, including bags and seats, was £400 less than Jet2 for the same dates and departure airport.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@emmaski, So, let's hear your evidence.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There is an old saying in aviation "if you think safety is expensive, try having an accident".
I have no issues with flying Ryanair, they fly more flights (1600) than anyone else in Europe, 280 000 passengers a day fly with them, if you are worried about safety google their record against Air France. The stats speak for themselves
As others have said - stick to the T&Cs and you will be fine. It is a well run business so there is a chance that if a new route doesn't go well then it may be pulled but that is unlikely. This happens with established airlines as well - Monarch did the dirty on me, Jet2 have pulled Chambery for next year upsetting some early TO bookings.
However, there is a significant number of people (pilots) in the industry who have an axe to grind with Ryanair as they and Easyjet were partly responsible for breaking the cartel of state subsidised flag carriers which for many years were run by pilots for pilots (and to some extent their second and third wives who worked in the cabins  ) which justified very large salaries. Even Sir Richard didn't manage to break this spiral because he needed BA pilots to get Virgin going (the cabin crew were a different story). There are still a lot of pilots that are disgruntled because the status quo was broken, if I typed this on a famous aviation website I would be flamed and probably banned!
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@emmaski, so we are talking about disgruntled staff members with an axe to grind? Staff know what they are signing up for when they take on the role. No one is forcing them to work for Ryanair.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No, not disgruntled staff that I am aware, although many have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire due to mergers and buy outs of airlines and ended up with a job yes but very unhappy at the pressures beyond what should be expected.
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| Gaza wrote: |
| @emmaski, so we are talking about disgruntled staff members with an axe to grind? Staff know what they are signing up for when they take on the role. No one is forcing them to work for Ryanair. |
No, nobody is forcing them to fly with any airline. But if you train to be a pilot you will easily rack up a loan of anywhere up to 100k for training unless you go through the self improver route. Do you honestly think a pilot is not going to take work to pay that loan off. It would be irresponsible not to.
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@emmaski, For perspective - a 3 year degree course in the UK (NUS website) is £66k (or £75 in London) with not even a guarantee of a job in a call centre. Given the potential for earning as a pilot then £100k is not a bad investment but it is a gamble against medical issues, industry downturns due to the economy, terrorism SARs, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Absolutely. However pilots do have a very comprehensive assurance for death and illness cover. So if things do go wrong they have good cover and are maybe in a better situation that most employees in other professions. Many jobs don't, that is - like you said providing you can get a job in the first place.
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Wow, £40k for a cadet!! My niece is a junior doctor. After more than 6 years of training (she is qualified and doing GP training at present. With a couple of years still to go) and her basic salary is £22k a year. She works in London and is doing nights in Obs and Gynae and this boosts her salary to a huge £24k.
£40k!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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40 grand? I'd be a train driver.
Curious about Nuremburg airport as a choice for skiing. Spose it's an hour or two closer to slopes than Frankfurt.
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@foxtrotzulu, @emmaski, When did Ryanair become a UK airline?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| alex_heney wrote: |
Because they do not have the slightest reputation for being unsafe.
Therefore, that is just not an issue to be taken into account. |
Agreed. However, I did see on another forum that they do have a reputation for sometimes flying with smaller fuel margins than other operators ( though still compliant with regulations) meaning that on several occasions when the aircraft has been put onto a holding pattern at their destination they have then had to declare a low fuel emergency landing request.....
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
However, I did see on another forum that they do have a reputation for sometimes flying with smaller fuel margins than other operators ( though still compliant with regulations) meaning that on several occasions when the aircraft has been put onto a holding pattern at their destination they have then had to declare a low fuel emergency landing request.....
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Have also heard this, via a friend who worked as an air traffic controller at an airport into which they fly a lot.
On a separate note, I've flown with them several times to Valencia...never had any issues. They're the only airline to fly directly from Manchester to Valencia and are very cheap too, so can't complain!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| andy wrote: |
40 grand? I'd be a train driver.
Curious about Nuremburg airport as a choice for skiing. Spose it's an hour or two closer to slopes than Frankfurt. |
It is about an hour and a half from Munich, which most people seem to consider a suitable airport for skiing in Austria.
If you are skiing in the Czech Republic, it will be closer than Munich. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
Wow, £40k for a cadet!! My niece is a junior doctor. After more than 6 years of training (she is qualified and doing GP training at present. With a couple of years still to go) and her basic salary is £22k a year. She works in London and is doing nights in Obs and Gynae and this boosts her salary to a huge £24k.
£40k!!! |
Yes, but the average commercial pilot dies in their 60s.
It is a very unhealthy job. Odd hours (shiftwork), stress of flying, dirty cabin air, the wife finding out about the stewardess, etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Wow, £40k for a cadet!! My niece is a junior doctor. After more than 6 years of training (she is qualified and doing GP training at present. With a couple of years still to go) and her basic salary is £22k a year. She works in London and is doing nights in Obs and Gynae and this boosts her salary to a huge £24k. |
Training as a GP, OK. Average GP earnings are around £100K. Not entirely shabby.
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| Quote: |
It is about an hour and a half from Munich, which most people seem to consider a suitable airport for skiing in Austria.
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Munich is chosen mainly because of the vast array of flight options, but is a good 2 hours to most Austrian resorts (although many seem to think it's about an hour to Mayrhofen).
I spose a 3 to 3.5 hour drive (autobahn all the way) is not that much more of a transfer than GVA to some of the top French resorts.
Just seems odd, saving on flights and ending up with a much longer and presumably more expensive transfer. Unless, as you say, the resort is one of those on the Czech/German border, where there's probably not too much in it.
Just the first time that I've seen Nuremberg used for skiing, but then Ryanair have used all kinds of distant airports and called the "skiing destinations" as part of their marketing to claim they fly the "most" skiers to the Alps.
Won't be any stacks at NUE, just like there aren't at Hahn, Wesel, or Baden Baden either.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| @emmaski, For perspective - a 3 year degree course in the UK (NUS website) is £66k (or £75 in London) with not even a guarantee of a job in a call centre. Given the potential for earning as a pilot then £100k is not a bad investment but it is a gamble against medical issues, industry downturns due to the economy, terrorism SARs, etc. |
If there's no job in a call centre then the taxpayer will end up picking up that £66K. Whereas pilot training is cash up-front, which is a completely different proposition.
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| emmaski wrote: |
| I prefer to fly with an airline I know is safe and conducts itself AS BEST IT CAN considering what the regulators (the CAA and other authorities) give them. |
I'm not sure which airline you think is full of happy shiny people. The entire industry has been on a cost squeeze for decades, affecting both flight and cabin staff.
There are IMO good reasons to shun Ryanair but safety isn't one of them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
From a "process" standpoint, Ryanair are one of the world's best airlines. They copied the American model of high productivity, high safety and low costs.
But from a "product" standpoint, Ryanair are horrific. Nasty seats, nasty staff, nasty fees, nasty remote airports, etc. etc.
Amazed that anyone flies with them. |
What complete an utter nonsense. When was the last time you were on a Ryanair flight?
Seat - Leather, no recline but neither does easyJet. Perfectly comfortable for a 3 hour flight.
Staff - The EDI crews have always been nice a pleasant when I've flown them.
Fees - Read the T&Cs/Fee structure and add to the base price and judge for yourself if they offer VFM.
Airports - Granted they fly from some remote airports but to generalise and say "nasty remote airports" is blatantly ignoring the reality. Take their UK airports as an example:-
Bournemouth
Bristol
Cardiff
Derry
East Midlands
Edinburgh
Glasgow
Leeds Bradford
Liverpool
Gatwick
Luton
Stansted
Manchester
Newcastle
Newquay
Prestwick
With the exception of the last 2 all are in major centres of population but even then Newquay and PIK serve a market. If they didn't FR would shut up shop.
They also serve many of Europe's capitals and major cities from primary airports such as AMS, BRU, CPH, NCE, FAO and many, many others. They also serve some great destinations in France that people actually want to fly to rather than land many miles away from and then drive e.g.
Biarritz, Bordeaux, La Rochelle and Bergerac. All these are popular tourist destinations and not served by the traditional carriers.
If these airports were "nasty and remote" as you say no one would fly to them and the routes would be canned.
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Some of us like remote airports because we live in remote places. Bristol and Bournemouth are in no way nasty, but that description might apply to Gatwick 
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