 Poster: A snowHead
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I need to buy winter tyres. The manual says I can go 225 50 17 or 215 55 17 and both can be used with chains. The current tyres are 225 55 17 but the manual says that size must not be used for winters.
So which to get and why?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 14-02-16 11:29; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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At the risk of being flamed.
Assuming you are putting them on their own wheels, get the narrowest, they should offer better traction and are likely to be cheaper. If buying new wheels ensure they have the correct offset (google it) so any fitted chains do not interfere with brake callipers, suspension, bodywork etc.
It may be possible to get some 16" wheels to fit. My Audi runs 225/50/17 "summer" tyres but 205/60/16 winters, best get some expert advice though. 16" tyres for mine are about £105, for the 17" they are about £20 more a corner I think. My handbook does say I can use a 16" wheel though.
Geoffers beat me to it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Basil, going on existing wheels. Not bothered about price as such
@geoffers, I'll have a look thanks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Golly, what a complicated thing. I just bought the same size as the tyres the vehicle came with - nothing awful's happened so far, and chains go on just fine.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@pam w, yebbut if I have an accident...how likely is that  ...I'll be on tyres that are against the manufacturers advice so potentially nullified insurance
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I suppose both sizes will give adequate clearance otherwise they would not be listed as suitable. I just don't know how same width but lower profile compares to narrower with same profile.
At the end of the day it's only 1cm in width and .5 in height difference but I don't know how important either dimension is
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| pam w wrote: |
| Golly, what a complicated thing. I just bought the same size as the tyres the vehicle came with - nothing awful's happened so far, and chains go on just fine. |
It depends on how much wheelarch clearance the car has for fitment of chains. Yours might well be fine, but that isn't the case for every car. Sometimes the winter tyres need to be smaller diameter for the safe fitment of chains. Especially if it says so in the user manual!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
I need to buy winter tyres. The manual says I can go 225 50 17 or 215 55 17 and both can be used with chains. The current tyres are 225 55 17 but the manual says that size must not be used for winters.
So which to get and why? |
I would look at what tyres are actually available in those sizes - you probably won't have that much choice in reality. The difference in size is pretty minimal, but I would tend toward the narrower 215/55 for winters. But only if you can actually get a premium winter tyre in that specific size. Either size will be fine if they are of decent quality and full winter rated.
A quick check shows that my personal favourite winter tyre (Continental WinterContact) is only available in the larger 225/50 size, so I'd probably go with those, although there are plenty of decent options in both sizes in this case.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 13-02-16 22:26; edited 1 time in total
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@uktrailmonster, I can get both. I can get premium in 215 55 with A rating for wet roads
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @uktrailmonster, I can get both. I can get premium in 215 55 with A rating for wet roads |
In that case I'd go on price if there's any difference. Either will be night and day better than summer tyres. As above I like Continental winter tyres, so I'd go with those in the slightly larger size.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The key thing is the 'J' value - the width of the wheel in inches as specified in the Owner's Manual. For example on my A3 I can use 7J wheels with chains but not 7.5J i.e. I can't put chains on the original 7.5" wheels that came on the car out the factory. The J value is associated with a second number, which is the wheel diameter in inches, in the above example 7Jx17 = 7" wide by 17" diameter (OK for chains) versus 7.5Jx18 = 7.5" wide by 18" diameter (not OK).
This isn't Audi being difficult - that .5" is all consumed on the inside of the wheel arch. Add another 20-25mm for the chain assembly to flap around and then have the suspension compressing and it's all getting too close to the suspension and brake pipes.
There is a relationship between wheel width (J) and tyre width as the wider wheel means a wider tyre. But it isn't the definitive metric (although close) as there's probably 25mm leeway in the width of tyre you can put on any specific wheel. Knowing the tyre width doesn't definitively tell you the wheel width.
Your garage can usually tell you what you've got especially in terms of the J size. Beware anyone selling you chains solely on the basis of the tyre size alone. Of course they'll fit the tyres standing still, but they may not be suitable for your specific wheels and model of car.
It sounds complex it isn't really: fir my A3 the manual says I can fit chains to 7Jx17 wheels carrying 205/.. tyres, but not to 7.5Jx18 wheels carrying 225/... tyres.
The big issue is that on discovering that their car comes with wheels that don't take chains, owners are in a quandary. Should they get a separate set of winter wheels and tyres and chains? If they put winter tyres on wheels which can't take chains, what are odds they'll never need chains anyway? Unfortunately this is a risk analysis without a definitive answer.
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@LaForet, I'm not in a quandary about the fact that my existing wheels can't take chains (my previous insignia couldn't so I didn't bother - premium winter tyres and driving at valley level and 99% on motorway)
This is all it says in the manual - no "J" reference. I know according to this which I can use as winters and with chains on:
Tyres
Tyres of size 205/60 R 16, 215/55 R 17, 225/50 R 17, 225/45 R 18 and 235/45 R 18 are only to be used as winter tyres.
Winter tyres: Winter tyres improve driving safety at temperatures below 7 °C and should therefore be fitted on all wheels.
Tyres of size 205/60 R 16, 215/55 R 17, 215/60 R 16, 225/45 R 18, 225/50 R 17 and 235/45 R 18 are permitted as winter tyres.
Tyres of size 225/55 R 17, 245/45 R 18, 245/40 R 191,245/35 R 20 and 255/35 R 20 must not be used as winter tyres
Tyre chains are only permitted on tyres of size 205/60 R 16, 215/55 R 17, 215/60 R 16, 225/45 R 18, 225/50 R 17 and 235/45 R 18.
Tyre chains are not permitted on tyres of size 225/55 R 17 (my existing wheels), 245/45 R 18, 245/40 R 19, 245/35 R 20 and 255/35 R 20.
EDIT: I've found a table on the internet so it must be true - existing wheels are 7J: 225/55R17 7Jx17 ET41
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Yours might well be fine, but that isn't the case for every car. Sometimes the winter tyres need to be smaller diameter for the safe fitment of chains.
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My problem was almost the opposite. My car's manual specified a range of tyre sizes which could be used, but thankfully didn't differentiate between winter and summer tyres. My dilemma was that I had a very good set of Continental winter tyres, for the old car, which was within a gazillionth of one of the correct sizes but even after some help here on Snowheads and puzzling about J numbers I wasn't 100% sure whether it would be OK to fit them on the existing rims. Going for simplicity I decided just to get a new set anyway and sold the old ones for not very much. Distinctions between winter and summer tyres make it even more complicated.
I get my tyres swapped summer/winter, and re-balanced at the same time. In the overall scheme of spending months each year in the Alps it's a minor expenditure! Thankfully I don't need to use expensive chains - a friend just paid £400 for K-Summits for his new car, a four year old Volvo. Which didn't come with a spare wheel, so he now has one sitting in the boot. I had to change one of mine a couple of weeks ago, and that gave him pause for thought. With his previous car he'd had a sudden blowout on a French motorway and been underway again without much delay but he's not sure he could manage to change one of the new car's much bigger wheels. When a car I hired for my son and family had a puncture on a mountain road at dusk a couple of years ago it was equipped only with a can of gunk and what could have been a simple inconvenience turned into a massive one. Left by the roadside overnight (fortunately it didn't snow), towed to a garage down in the valley, two new tyres, etc. If I'd not had my car available, to ferry the passengers back to accommodation, meet the tow truck back at the site, go and pick up the car two days later, it would have made a massive hole in a family's one week ski holiday.
Keep it simple, is my motto.
Holidayloverxx - could you get your new car delivered with winter tyres, then buy the same size summers when the time comes?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@holidayloverxx, as per @LaForet, the different size tyres will fit onto different sized rims to give the same rolling diameter. therefore you may not be able to fit the suggested winter tyres onto the wheels you have. I would suggest going onto mytyres dot com, selecting a winter wheel and tyre package, enter your car details and see what combinations are offered. I cant see why you cannot just fit the same size winter tyre and the summer tyres onto the rims you have as they will be the same size, (unless Audi are expecting to you to have to fits chains at some point because you will be driving in snow and they will not fit, so its the chains rather than the tyres that are the limiting factor)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I just bought the same size as the previous tyres but my car came fitted with winters anyway. According to the handbook they're the same size as summer tyres would be. I've never owned or used chains, but driven plenty of white steep roads in the peak district on winters without problems.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
unless Audi are expecting to you to have to fits chains at some point because you will be driving in snow and they will not fit, so its the chains rather than the tyres that are the limiting factor
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That's what I think the problem is, though.
Sure, chains aren't often needed. But it seems cussed to fit winter tyres which absolutely can't take them.
I have to use chains sometimes, on good winter tyres. If I had 4WD I probably wouldn't have to. But I'd never go anywhere without them in winter. Fancy being the one stuck in the middle of a hill with everybody cursing you!
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@holidayloverxx, On a 7J by 17" wheel you can fit tyres between 195 and 225 wide. The main issue is the rolling diameter of the tyre which changes the speed indication and the distance travelled on the odometer. Given the list in the manual I suggest that replacing the 225/55 with the 215/55 should reduce the width of the tyre giving the required leeway for chains and not change the rolling diameter of the tyre and the accuracy of the instruments.
Your dealer (or a competent tyre shop) should be able to confirm this.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm on my phone do too hard to quote everyone...
1. @pam w, it's not a new car. I am getting winter tyres delivered to the car dealer....it's not a dealership or garage....and they are going to take the car to the tyre place to have them swapped over as I haven't enough time to get it done myself before hols.
2. @under a new name, it's a 2011 insignia. I'm not about to start looking in a foreign language and relying on Google translate to get the answer. If I need to prove that I followed the manufacturers advice then I no doubt I would be expected to use the English language manual that came with the car.
3. @BergenBergen, it's not an audi . That's la forets car. I think the point you make is right though. It is about clearance. The manual also states chains no thicker than 10 mm.
4. @tarrantd, thanks that makes sense. The table I found and put in my edit above shows the effect on the odometer for each of the tyre sizes. It's minimal but I use the sat nav for speed indication anyway. I tried to call several companies for advice while I was in the car dealers yesterday. They were either closed on a Saturday afternoon or only had Saturday staff that could not give advice. I have to order the tyres today so they are delivered to the car dealers before the end of the week.
Thanks to all for suggestions. I have a plan
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| BergenBergen wrote: |
| @holidayloverxx, as per @LaForet, the different size tyres will fit onto different sized rims to give the same rolling diameter. therefore you may not be able to fit the suggested winter tyres onto the wheels you have. I would suggest going onto mytyres dot com, selecting a winter wheel and tyre package, enter your car details and see what combinations are offered. I cant see why you cannot just fit the same size winter tyre and the summer tyres onto the rims you have as they will be the same size, (unless Audi are expecting to you to have to fits chains at some point because you will be driving in snow and they will not fit, so its the chains rather than the tyres that are the limiting factor) |
If you read what he posted from the manual, you'll notice that the winter tyres recommended for use with chains are actually a slightly smaller rolling radius ie. 225/50 R17 vs 225/55 R17 i.e. they are a lower profile tyre. The 215/55 R17 will be somewhere in the middle as it's a narrower 55 profile tyre. So it all makes sense to me. All these tyres will fit the same wheel rims too. Here's a rolling radius calculator:-
http://www.brspecialtuning.co.uk/Tyre%20size%20calculator.htm
225/55 R17 = 340 mm rolling radius
225/50 R17 = 328 mm
215/50 R17 = 334 mm
As for your speedometer, it's going to under-read by about 3% or 2.5 mph at 70 mph, so don't worry about that too much!
I can only imagine clearance for chains must be pretty marginal on this car, but they are probably being conservative. If you don't need to use chains, then it doesn't matter if the winter tyres are the exact same size as the summer tyres. But as you have to buy the tyres anyway it makes sense to buy them in the specific sizes recommended by the manufacturer.
Edit: If it required the fitment of narrower rims (lower J number) for lateral clearance of chains then it would clearly state this in the manual.
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@uktrailmonster, It must be pretty marginal, 5% of 225 or 11mm 
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@uktrailmonster, sorry I'm reading long posts on my phone...when who posted from the manual? That was me. But what you say makes sense. I had been thinking about the profile in the equation. 225 50 it is, thanks
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
If I need to prove that I followed the manufacturers advice then I no doubt I would be expected to use the English language manual that came with the car.
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If I needed to evade an insurer's malfeasance I would use whatever language manual suited my needs 
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@under a new name, ha ha. having had 2 cars written off in 18 months, I'm hedging my bets!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hi, I had exactly the same dilemma. We have a Skoda Superb 4x4 estate with 18 inch alloys, however I checked on various sites and posted on snowheads, however
http://www.mrwinterwheels.co.uk/steel-wheels.html
From the above with free delivery, next day I got 4 Goodyear ultra grips on 16 inch rims for just under £400.
Told our insurers (Admiral ) and got email to confirm change of wheels and tyres and no charge,
Sailed up mountain in snow in maurrienne valley in January when everyone else was chaining up, I also carry chains as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Skoda recommend 16 inch rims for our car for winter tyres
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I'd go with the car manual advice and fit the recommended 215 width tyres.
This is 10mm narrower than the general use tyre which if the 225 clears with no chains (say 10mm at a guess) gives you an additional space between the tyre inner edge of half the 10mm, so total of 15mm. Many general use chains are 9mm so the specs are trying to give you a reasonable amount.
For info, the J refers to the rim profile of a wheel that the tyre locates on and is the form the wheel and tyre manufactures comply to in order that any tyre will be located properly and safe to use. They are always quoted as width between the internal rim faces in inches+J to confirm it fits within that std.
If clearance is not an issue (not in this instance) then one rim width would normally accept easily a difference in tyre width of up to 50mm so you should discount that from your reasoning.
This is primarily about safe clearance when the need to use chains arises and not about the other criteria.
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You know it makes sense.
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@ski3, the advice in the manual is you can go with 215 or 225 and can use less than 10mm chains on both - see my post at 04:30 this morning. Not sure why you think 215 is recommended
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Personally I would have gone with the 215 (narrower is generally better in snow) but having looked at all the specs and sizes available for the car I'm not sure why the 225/55 is not a winter tyre option other than the possible need to add chains but the clearance on the wheel diameter must be very marginal and there can be no problem with inside clearance as the 225 in both the 50 and 55 profile will have the same inner overhang.
I'm sure all will be well as you are within the manufacturer's specification but I understand your confusion.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@tarrantd, thanks, and the 225 were significantly cheaper (I know I said price wasn't an issue but this was £45 a corner).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sorry @holidayloverxx, was looking at your 1st post, you were up at 4.30
Hope you get it all sorted ready for the trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@ski3, went back to bed though!
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FAQ
