 Poster: A snowHead
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Yesterday, whilst merrily traversing an easy blue in Passo Tonale, a member of the lycra racesuit fraternity misjudged a slight bump in the piste and face planted at around 30 mph just in front of us. We were first on the scene and immediately realised that the guy was in trouble. Although he'd been wearing a helmet, his goggles had taken the full impact of the fall and smashed into his face (not pretty). He was also semi conscious and unable to move.
Whilst I set up crossed poles upslope from the accident, my girlfriend skied down to the nearest lift and tried to raise the alarm. The first person she stopped was a ski school instructor who's response was "he'll be up in a minute, don't worry", the second, a liftie wasn't interested in getting involved at all.
After a long 10 minutes someone must have raised the alarm as a first aid team showed up and took over rescuing the poor guy. 10 minutes doesn't sound too long but we were just 50 metres away from two lifts at the bottom of a slope, right next to the ski school meeting place. Over a hundred people were milling around but no-one seemed keen to get a resue organised.
My question is, what else could we have done to raise the alarm more promptly and who has responsiblilty for making sure that emergencies are taken seriously? Is there a code that we should have followed that we're not aware of?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ski school instructors are always a waste of space when it comes to accidents. The liftie should have reported it to the pisteurs immediately.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Clive, I was told to ski down to the nearest lift station, where they should alert the rescue team. Doesn;t sound like you did anything wong , one of you stayed with the victim and the other alerted (or attempted to alert) the rescue team. I think there is sometimes a number you can call from your mobile too.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Some lift maps have red crosses to show where the pisteurs' huts are so it's a good idea to head for them.
It does take a while for a rescue sledge to get to someone - they are pretty unwieldy things!
Sounds like you did all the right things though Clive
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you think you can describe where you are - and you have a mobile, and reception's ok - ring the emergency number, 112.
It's always a good idea to note down the local emergency number when you arrive, and enter it into your mobile phone address book for your stay. Slightly quicker.
SimonN, ski instructors are definitely NOT "always a waste of space", en bloc. Obviously you will get the occasional not so helpful one, but I've seen basic assistance provided by instructors, after the emergency number had been dialled, all entirely by the book.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And don't forget the Piste Rules
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9. Assistance
At accidents, every skier or snowboarder is duty bound to assist.
It is a cardinal principle for all sportsmen that they should render assistance following an accident independent of any legal obligation to do so. Immediate First Aid should be given, the appropriate authorities alerted and the place of the accident marked to warn other skiers and snowboarders. FIS hopes that a hit and run offence in skiing and snowboarding will incur a criminal conviction similar to hit and run offence on the road and that equivalent penalties will be imposed by all countries where such legislation is not already in force.
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see here
accidents
PG's tip re the emergency number is probably the most important particularily where there is an avalanche and time is of the essence ( remember you have only 15 minutes to dig someone out of the snow to save their life !.
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It is worth having the phone number of piste security for the resort you are skiing in and then ring that directly if there is a problem. I understand that ringing 112 will work but will probable take longer to get a response. 112 will get you to a general emergency service for a very large area and they will not know the resort you are skiing in. Ringing the locals will get you to someone who knows the resort and the names of all of the lifts and slopes etc so they can ask sensible questions until they understand the exact location. Piste security in some resorts, including Val d'Isere and Tignes claim to have telephone answering staff that speak English, French and sereval other European languages, so conversing with them should not be a problem.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I guess that the (potential) language issue would be one reason why 112 might be a better option in smaller resorts.
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| PG wrote: |
And don't forget the Piste Rules
| Quote: |
9. Assistance
At accidents, every skier or snowboarder is duty bound to assist.
It is a cardinal principle for all sportsmen that they should render assistance following an accident independent of any legal obligation to do so. Immediate First Aid should be given, the appropriate authorities alerted and the place of the accident marked to warn other skiers and snowboarders. FIS hopes that a hit and run offence in skiing and snowboarding will incur a criminal conviction similar to hit and run offence on the road and that equivalent penalties will be imposed by all countries where such legislation is not already in force.
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Over and above the FIS rules it's also the law in many alpine countries that you have to stop and assist isn't it? It is in Switzerland but first aid training is also almost mandatory.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| hibernia wrote: |
see here
accidents
PG's tip re the emergency number is probably the most important particularily where there is an avalanche and time is of the essence ( remember you have only 15 minutes to dig someone out of the snow to save their life !. |
The best chance of someone in an avalanche is if YOU (and anyone else who sees it) dig him/her out. By the time you go for help and it comes it will probably be too late. If you are off piste you SHOULD have a shovel (and obviously transciever and hopefully a probe).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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On another thread I was talking about an accident to one of our group - she thought she would be able to walk down the piste, and in the end could not - it took her 10 min to get to the edge of the run.
When she was lying on the slope no one stopped to see if she was ok ...
I also keep a First Aid kit in my back pack, I havent a survival blanket in it yet but the amount of time from accident to snowmobile arriving was not ideal and that could have made her slightly more comfortable, but the response was better than happened in the start of this thread. I stood beside the liftie until he took his radio out and called for help.
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Hi Folks,
Thanks for all the reassurance that at least we did try and do the right thing even if help was a little slow in coming. One further question did cross my mind though. Had I been a lone skier on an isolated piste who came across an accident victim, would my initial responsibility have been to stay with the casualty or to ski down and raise the alarm?
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You know it makes sense.
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Clive, I just suggest check the casualty, ABC, first aid etc. If safe (ie possible spinal injury) move them to a safe position so no one else hits them. Make sure that they are warm enough (donate clothing if needed). Make sure you know the location. Go for help.
It is a subjective matter really, if it seems that it may be a while before another skier comes down that piste then making the casualty comfortable and then going to raise the alarm seems the most sensible course of action. Every accident is different though 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Clive, as Scarpa says, it depends on the casualty. If it's a "minor" injury, reassure then that they wil be okay while you go for help. If they are unconcious, then you're probably better off staying with them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SimonN, That is really offensive.
Clive, You did everything right - absolutely. Perhaps the person in question was known to cry wolf a bit? You just don't know, but the response sounds poor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SimonN, it has occured to me that instructors may be limited in what they can do because of the idiotic way that people jump in to sue if something is not to their liking. My brother in law is a GP and he will not get involved when he is not 'on duty' unless it is life threatening for that very reason. Having said that on the few occasions when I have seen people seriously hurt (as opposed to shaken up with a few cuts and bruises) the instructors have always stopped and made sure things are being dealt with before moving on with their students.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So far when I have done "explosive crashes" this season it has normally been in the seconds count before I have been asked - ca va / gut / ye alright....
Can I suggest that a list of correct none English language listing is made up for please can you get the rescue personnel / red cross person as there has been an accident.
My "Frauline" (point up hill, then at knee) "kaput" worked but for those folks on here that dont normally speak - French - German - American - Spanish - Bulgarian etc it might be nice to have the generic statement of someone is broken we need help.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SimonN give us your evidence of such a claim. I don't see how an instructor would normally have the ability to ditch their (often +12) pupils to go charging off the other side of the mountain to see to an accident. Having said that I haven't witnessed a single instuctor, who comes across an accident, who fails to stop their lesson and either assist the injured or alternatively see about contacting rescue services.
Clive 10 minutes sounds about right, all things considered. Under ideal conditions it would take a minute or two for your call (via whatever method) to get to the call-answering service. Another minute or two for the answering service to relay the info to the rescue service staff, and a further minute or so while rescue service staff organise themselves and their equipment. Say 5 mins for rescue staff to get from the rescue station to you with blood bin in tow (they have to snowplough down & ain't particularly fast!). Of course when you're injured or supporting an injured person, even a minute feels like too long!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Firstly, sorry for the late reply and on reflection, the over strong wording. I have done something I hate, namely tar a whole group with the same brush. However, I have seen and been involved with many incidents and 3 particularly serious ones, where instructors have behaved badly and not helped. It makes one's blood boil. For instance, an instructor stating he couldn't help because of his class when a woman is lying on the ground with her leg facing totally the wrong way and screeming in agony is enough to leave a fairly jaundiced view. All instructors are heading downwards! It doesn't take a lot for them to report an accident.
How often do instructors ski straight past incidents? IMO, often. Am I just in the "wrong place at the wrong time" but it seems a regular occurance that I find people helpless and injured on piste with all manner of people skiing past. I will bet you that on almost any day in Val D'Isere, you can find people needing help and ski school groups skiing past. However, its not just instructors who ignore accidents. Most of us do as we have a belief that somebody more suited than ourselves will be along shortly.
I am not trying to be a big "I am great" but as my main skiing is back country, I always ski witha rucksack and first aid kit. I cannot remember a holiday that I haven't used that first aid kit for somebody outside of the group I have been skiing with. I have never understood why instructors don't ski with a small back pack and first aid kit, even if it is only for their clients. i know that the specialist off piste instructor/ guides do but (most of) the rest rely on others.
Once again, I appologise for any offence to any particular individual but I would say that most instructors either are not in a position to help (because of class etc) or choose to leave it to somebody else.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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This made me laugh from Hibernia's link:
"Special Information for Snowboarders... The front leg must be firmly tethered to the board by a safety strap... It is essential to look carefully to right and left when changing direction... The ability to ski does not automatically mean you have the ability to snowboard."
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Clive,
Something similar heppened to me when in Tonale a few years back on the Bleiss run. Although there were dozen of people crowding round the victim doing nothing, so I skied down to the neared lift, they didn't get too excited either!!! Bloody Italians!!!
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