Hi, Son is in the local freestyle club, and they all seem to have back protectors apart from him. Someone suggested Decathlon for cheaper ones. Are these ok? I don't mind spending the money to protect him, but he's only been going since August, and he does have a tendency to give up on stuff. Guessing they are still good for his normal skiing anyway.
Some advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
G
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Gilly28, Er..we definitely use a back protector for youth doing such stuff. But different models function in different ways and have different assets and problems. DO NOT buy one which is too big with the idea that 'he will grow into it' - this has led to some very serious neck injuries - VERY serious.
Soft armour
POC VPD soft protectors protect against impact injury. They are light, flexible, and the kids seldom remember they are wearing one since they are so light. POC use mesh vests, which are light and sweat free, yet keep the back protector in the right position. No straps to faff around with, just a vest to put on and that's that. Dainese have just brought out their own version of this soft type, and it's good. POC and Dainese are rated for high impact. FORCEFIELD - an English manufacturer near Northhampton, also make these polymer protectors, although they are more bulky and most models require fiddling with straps.
Hard armour
This usually protects against over-articulation of the spine as well as impact but are much more restrictive of movement, and we do not use them for anything requirement very dynamic movement. Dainese again are a key manufacturer.
Decathlon do make protectors but I have had a look at them and they are well below the standard of POC and Dainese. I would opt for POC, since you also can buy upper body armour (shoulders in particular) and this can be good in freestyle.
Re normal skiing, my kids have had POC protectors since they were 4 years' old, and on two occasions they have prevented serious injury when idiots have piled into my young ones when they were wending their way down the mountain in a safe and controlled manner - one accident was very bad, with an elderly skier piling into my son from behind. Small one was shocked but uninjured, the lack of injury was much to the surprise of my son's instructor - a swiss friend - and a pistuer who saw the accident. They were impressed by how well the armour and helmet worked on that occasion.
This is just my take, and others may have helpful views....
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The technology has moved on in the past few years - so no excuse for not wearing on. I do motorcycle track days and can tell you I have use one in anger. Try going to a motorcycle dealer as you might get better prices. Quite a lot of gear on eBay in the motorbike sections. Good brands are Knox and Dainese but also look at Forcefield. Good choice now of pure back protectors and back protects included in zip up undershirts etc. Forcefield suff is good as you can change the body armour itself. I now always wear one - Knox - and never notice it there. Buy one if they are leaping around in the air!
Valais - Thank you, that is wonderful advice. As he was just starting the freestyle he wasn't doing major stuff and I thought it was maybe being over the top - all the gear and no idea- We did go and get the Decathlon one, and got the one that was in his height bracket, but now after reading your comments, I'm not so sure and perhaps I'd rather go get one fitted at a good ski shop. I'm also now spooked at the neck injury comments, especially from the hard ones, so I'm thinking spend the money and get one of these softer ones, plus if comfortable he shouldn't have an issue wearing it all the time.
Time to start googling again!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Oxymoronracing thank you also. Good tip re motorcycle shops we have quite a few of them in Glasgow!
Googling just now. It's a bit of a minefield!
@Gilly28, ...I think you are being very sensible, not at all over the top. The issue of neck injury is associated with an over-large rigid protector - in very, very rare circumstances where certain physical forces combine in a certain way, the over-large protector can be pushed up by an impact from below - eg a hard 'sitting down' accident, the protector can then rise and form a nasty sharp lip over which the head articulates backwards, damaging the neck. If the forces are enough then it can be a severe injury. I must emphasise that this is a rare set of circumstances - but the risk can be reduced/removed by using the correct sized back protector, adjusted and held correctly in place (good strap adjustment or vest holding it in place). This type of accident also is documented in research from the 'States but I just can't find track it down now ... I am going to have a search later....
This eBay listing shows a good photo of the back of the POC protectors - which I think are excellent
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@valais - This is the one I guessed you were talking about, can get it new direct from Poc for 90 euros or Zalando for £70 both free shipping.
Think I'll be getting this. Will give some of the shops a call to see if anyone stocks it as would like it for Wednesday, but probably will have to order.
Thanks again for all of your help. Anything else you can suggest he should get (I got him the shorts also from Decathlon I may just keep them), I am open to all advice
After all it is free
After all it is free
I just ordered one of these...http://www.evocsports.com/protection-wear-bike/bike-protector-jacket
Arguably massive overkill, but the reviews I've seen are good, it apparently is fairly comfortable and means no need for any additional padding as its all in one!
Not everyone's cup of tea, but I particularly liked the additional padding at the top of the neck and collarbone area.
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My boys have had quite a few over the years. They did not like the hard armour, soft armour was better. Forcefield was not as comfy as the soft armour HEAD one they had, I think it was called a Flexor Jr, great protector with clear size charts and lots of adjustment. Also cheaper than a POC one.
My oldest now has a nukeproof one, MTB brand, but does the same job. He will also use it in his DH bike in summer.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Slight thread hijack. Would you recommend a back protector for race training? Jnr has just started training with a race team. He's got leg, hand and chinguards, just wondering if this should be the next thing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Gilly28, ...no problem at all re advice; glad to help. I think it's a delicate balancing act between things which protect and things which inhibit movement - inhibiting movement can itself be a cause of accident. The best insurance against injury is ... Training (see rainy day below - a film of one of the up and coming young free riders, the son of friends in CH) and mental attitude. Kids who push too far end up getting injured. Kids who do not train and do not build physical capacity in the right places get injured. But good, light protection is an important third. Candide Thovex had no armour and did exactly the right things to become outstanding, and without injury initially - the big injury came on a day when his mental attitude let him down...(see the accident section of Few Words - worth buying for all kids thinking of freestyle...)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@hammerite, my children wear back protectors for race training, as do many other of the children attending. They have got so used to wearing them for training, that they now wear them for recreational skiing as well.
@valais2, Got the Poc vest today. Managed to get it from Gravity Protection, an online company that are based in Barrhead Glasgow, so my husband was able to go pick it up tonight rather than wait for delivery. It was £64.95 and they offer a 10% discount to Snowheads so less than £60. Very impressed with it too! He'll get to try it out tomorrow night.
@valais2 sorry to hijack this thread but I was wondering about your comments about hard protectors. I am a large lady in my 60s and got one at the insistence of my children to keep me safe. It does come up to my neck base and wasn't properly fitted by anyone - just got a large one from eBay (Dianese I think) and it flops around a bit but is held in place by my jacket. The belt never stays done up cos i have a thick waist.
Last year I took a flip at high speed and came down on my neck. I broke my humerus. I have often wondered if the back protector made it worse as I would've landed on it upside down. I hear it is quite unusual to break your humerus. What do you think? Should I ditch it?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@poppyb, no dea whether it made it worse, but breaking your humerus isn't too common. I did mine playing football. I got pole axed, my arm across my body with the full force of my body landing on top of it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Gilly28, ...excellent....they are a great piece of kit and the research behind them very strong....I certainly relax more when I know my two are wearing theirs...you got a great price, too
@poppyb, ...I am trying to imagine the dynamics of your accident, but if it was almost a full rotation then landing flat on your back protector this probably means that it did its job. I don't think it would be implicated in the humerus break unless it prevented articulation of the arm in the fall but I can't see why that would be the case. But I do worry from your description of it 'flopping around' that under different circumstances it could indeed make things worse. Pop it on and send me a few pictures by text - to 0770 250 5256 and I can have a check. It sound like a vest-style protector would make a lot of sense for you but if you can send pics I will have a better idea.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Thanks that's very kind - I will take you up on that.
No i didn't land in my back I flipped upside down from a dead stop and landed on my head and neck . I wondered if it stopped my body being flexible and caused the break as the impact would've been on my neck/shoulder and the edge of the protector.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@valais2, I'm trying to send you 2 pics but your mobile isn't on whatsapp and my contract doesn't allow me to send photos!
Can you kindly pm me your email address and I can send them for your advice. I tried to upload them on here but couldn't find the photo button! Apologies. Grrr!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@poppyb, putting photos onto snow heads is a dark art .... I've Pm,d my email address....
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@poppyb, ...given your more detailed description of the accident it is not impossible that the edge was implicated if the protector was displaced. Collarbone. Ac joint . Rotator cuff far more common than humerus break so it does seem as if something odd happened - although all of this is guesswork without a visual of the accident itself - weird things happen in dynamic accidents - like the time my partner gave herself a black eye with her knee (!!!?). Back protectors are particularly useful for accidents where random skiers pile into the back of you (not uncommon) or where a fall involves rotation with the spine being the first part of the body to hit the ground or hard object - again not an uncommon scenario.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@valais2, sorry another question (you seem to be in demand!) do your children wear a base layer under it? Just I read it had to be close to body but there is a Velcro square at top and son said it itched him
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Gilly28, ah yes familiar with the little velcro square - which will soon be black from the fluff it picks up - it would be very itchy against the skin - yes ours wear at least a base layer and sometimes a thin fleece too when on the hill, then the POC. My VPD protector is integrated into my backpack since I have to carry so much of other peoples' gubbins around the hill, all day....
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm the one with the back pack in our family, but usually a pretty small one, but maybe next on the shopping list is a back pack with protector for me
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Gilly28, ...I've got an ortovox free 18 pack and I've replaced the stock protector with a poc vpd which you can buy as a spare part from poc - and that slips into the purpose built pocket in the back pack - works really well
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