 Poster: A snowHead
|
As I sit here thinking about why I am having a coffee and not on my mountain bike (poor time management/needed a long sleep/etc) I started reflecting on the comments on the thread around the death in Flaine this week.
In many years of sliding, I have only been assailed from the woods once, by an idiot youth who jumped out of the trees and piled into me. No severe damage done, but there could have been. My own kids love heading off into the woods going down to Marolires in Montana, and then popping back out onto the piste, and doing the same at Signal. Since they were tiny it has been drummed into them that (I) they need to check that there actually is snow in the woods; (ii) not to make any assumptions from the last time they did it about what's in there; (iiii) never rejoin the piste without making sure they won't pile into someone. This is achieved by more than one approach. I often go down to the exit I think they are going to come out from (I usually get it right) and spot for them. And I make it clear that when I am not there, they should either have clear sight, or stop.
So far so good, in 10 years of them doing it.
But overall, I think the lack of incidents boils down to chance. I see kids and adults rejoining the piste all the time from woods and off-piste, without really checking. It's almost always fine. But this is simply down to there not being people in the wrong place - if you think of even a crowded piste, the density of skiers, since they need some room to ski, means that there is more space than skiers. This opens a ratio of space to skiers, and so creates an odds of hitting/not hitting someone. The chances of hitting someone actually are rather small, even if you don't look at all. But the chance is THERE if you don't spot or stop. That's the difference.
I am a bit of an obsessive about stopping my kids from EVER leaping into or onto anything without knowing what the hell they are doing, recognising that this can't stop them from always being entirely safe, but minimising the times they simply rely on chance.
Roll the dice, fine. But I'd rather that I and my kids are never involved in gambling.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
It takes two to have a collision. So you can only control one side of the equation. Not re-joining the piste without looking is extremely important. But if you ski next to the woods, which many good skiers do, you can't control when someone else pop out of the woods on top of you.
I've been in both side of the equation myself. Never actually made physical contact with anyone but a few close calls. I've had skier/boarder jump out of the woods very close to me. It's entirely by chance that they didn't collide with me. I can remember at least one incident when I had to make emergency maneuver to avoid collision. The kid appologise as he went by. Good gesture but not very useful had there been a collision.
For myself getting out of the woods, it typically goes like this: totally empty piste, look up the hill between the trees as I move toward the edge of the piste to make sure there's nobody coming... pop out, where the f$*& did this other person came from!
The reality is, the view from the woods aren't 100%. So without stopping to check, there's always the chance the person was obscured by a tree in such a way (usually moving about the same speed as the "checker") that it's just hard to spot. I try to rejoin the piste with as little angle as I can manage so I'd be taking as little room as possible, even AFTER checking the piste were "empty".
| Quote: |
Roll the dice, fine. But I'd rather that I and my kids are never involved in gambling.....
|
Life is a gamble. Do what it takes to maximize the odds and minimize the risk.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I was speaking to my next door neighbour last week. He's a fair bit older than me and has boared all over the world - a lot more than I have skied. He was telling me he's seen 3 people die on the slopes which seemed very high for a guy based in the uk who skis a few times a year. He said he once saw a lady decapitated by a snowboard that re-joined a piste a very high speed, which I found quite alarming. He said that he had to give statements to the French police but the snowboarder avoided sentence. He thinks it happened in the 3 vallees (He's about 75 now and has boarded lot of places and seemed vague about where it happened.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
One of the main reasons I prefer skiing off piste is that piste skiing these days just scares the hell out of me! To prove my point my wife had a high speed collision with a guy on the Fleck valley run in Kitzbühel a couple of weeks ago. She was skiing fast, the other guy was skiing at the same speed, and she decided to stop to see where I was ( skiing just as fast down the other side of the piste ). The other guy didn't stop and slammed right into her side. She got a massive bruise and he got a broken nose. Lucky... they could easily have both ended up dead.
Ok, so she shouldn't have stopped like that, but then he shouldn't have been chasing her at close range. Hard to say who was really at fault.
Like you say, when I look at an average busy piste then I think the lack of incidents boils down mainly to chance, which is why I try to avoid busy blues as much as I can!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@valais2, +1!
I am still nursing an elbow injury from early January sustained in exactly that way. Young lad thundered out of the trees and ploughed into my back bringing me down and ripping my UCL Feel fortunate it was nothing worse and he was OK if somewhat chastened!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
This isn't limited to the woods. The conversation came up several times at EOSB (it was very sunny, and lots of people were having piste-side picnics... in fact a few people were having on-piste picnics but that's a separate story) about how people just don't seem to look. At all. Ever.
It's odd because I should imagine most of them drive, and would never pull out of a junction without looking. But with skis on, people just seem to adopt this belief that the piste is theirs to do as they wish, and looking out is simply somebody else's problem. The 'downhill skier's priority' rule exists, but you can't rely on it, nor can you expect everyone to trundle around at 1mph just in case you jump out in front of them lastminute.com-styley.
I crashed into an old woman and sent her on a complimentary flight about 20ft down the piste, courtesy of Newton's Second Law. I wasn't at an irresponsible speed, but if you suddenly push out onto a busy piste, with not even a cursory look, people will crash into you. Luckily nobody got hurt. But all week we were all playing dodgems with idiots who seemed to be firmly of the belief that they were skiing on private pistes.
Hence I am coming around to @Steilhang's point of view. Skiing on-piste just seems to be becoming a bit too much of a lottery for my enjoyment. People just do not pay attention and are far too busy checking out the view / using selfie sticks / sending a text / messing around with their mates to consider the possibility that there might actually be other people skiing and those people might not want to be hospitalised for the sake of a quick look over one's shoulder. I have given up expecting other people to play along, because they don't.
When I was having motorbike lessons, the instructor said to me "you have to look at every single car on the road and assume that the driver is trying to kill you. Forget road laws, and rights of way. Go to a graveyard, it'll be home to plenty of people who had right of way." I have to admit I'm starting to look at piste skiing in a similar manner.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dp wrote: |
I crashed into an old woman and sent her on a complimentary flight about 20ft down the piste, courtesy of Newton's Second Law. I wasn't at an irresponsible speed, but if I suddenly push out onto a busy piste, with not even a cursory look, I will crash into you. Luckily nobody got hurt. But all week we were all playing dodgems with idiots who seemed to be firmly of the belief that they were skiing on private pistes.
|
fixed it for you..or did you look before entering the piste, and if so how did you manage to crash into her?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good point @dp.
The instilled observational/awareness skills and deep mistrust of everyone else around me coming from riding motorbikes for years before learning to ski both very helpful but also terrifying at times at some people's lack of..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I got the impression that they were both on the piste. I find that some people have that look about them, as you ski down a piste, and they are on the side. They have that look about them that says "I might just launch out onto the piste without looking, so watch out". And surprisingly often, they do. I think in a case like that both skier probably share the blame. Of course she shouldn't have launched out without warning, but if you were going so fast that you couldn't avoid her when she did, then perhaps you were going too fast.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Or too close. It irritates me when I am standing neatly on the edge of the piste, when fast skiers pass unnecessarily close.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@pam w, it irritates me when I am standing on the edge of a massively wide piste that people ski round me in the 3 foot of space there. I'm not a slalom pole  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| dp wrote: |
| It's odd because I should imagine most of them drive, and would never pull out of a junction without looking. |
I've always found that people in general have poor spacial awareness, and have little consideration for others. For many people when driving, the actual driving is an autonomic response, it is not their primary focus as it should be. This is why we will all eventually be lumbered with self drive cars.
Anyway back to the skiing. To my mind, skiing on a busy piste should be a collaborative process, with each person taking into account each others actions. Once a piste gets too busy this becomes impossible, and it is only a matter of time before an impact. Throw in one or more "I'll ski/board how I want" people into the equation............
While I agree off piste massively reduces the impact risk, I was nearly taken out off piste in Japan by someone skiing at a speed way in excess of his ability and the location. We were on the last exit traverse line, when the skier came through at head height and crashed into the trees below.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| dp wrote: |
I crashed into an old woman and sent her on a complimentary flight about 20ft down the piste, courtesy of Newton's Second Law. I wasn't at an irresponsible speed, but if I suddenly push out onto a busy piste, with not even a cursory look, I will crash into you. Luckily nobody got hurt. But all week we were all playing dodgems with idiots who seemed to be firmly of the belief that they were skiing on private pistes.
|
fixed it for you..or did you look before entering the piste, and if so how did you manage to crash into her? |
He was on the piste she ( with an instructor ) pushed out into traffic blind and got clattered. Entirely her fault from dp's account. The instructor even gave him an apologetic shrug.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| maggi wrote: |
| ... it irritates me when I am standing on the edge of a massively wide piste that people ski round me in the 3 foot of space there. I'm not a slalom pole . |
Personally, I'd never stop anywhere other people could possibly hit me, so I'm not a slalom pole because I'm not there.
It's odd because I should imagine most of them drive, and would never pull out of a junction without looking.
As a driver of very fast cars and a cyclist of pretty quick bikes, I think you overestimate the intelligence of the average driver. They do pull out of junctions without looking, all the time, sometimes whilst using their phones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
On the topic it's not just poo-poo happens. Joining any piste blind including setting off without a shoulder check is crazy. I don't usually try to buzz people intentionally but I will make an exception for any tool who drops out of trees onto a cattrack in front of me without looking. Does put the wind up some of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| pam w wrote: |
| I got the impression that they were both on the piste. I find that some people have that look about them, as you ski down a piste, and they are on the side. They have that look about them that says "I might just launch out onto the piste without looking, so watch out". And surprisingly often, they do. I think in a case like that both skier probably share the blame. Of course she shouldn't have launched out without warning, but if you were going so fast that you couldn't avoid her when she did, then perhaps you were going too fast. |
Nope. Entirely the responsibility of the non skier setting off otherwise the skier's code doesn't make sense. Colorado which actually enshrines FIS code type principles into stats law explicitly states that someone setting off or merging must yield to traffic from above.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, ok - I didn't read it that way
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| dp wrote: |
I crashed into an old woman and sent her on a complimentary flight about 20ft down the piste, courtesy of Newton's Second Law. I wasn't at an irresponsible speed, but if I suddenly push out onto a busy piste, with not even a cursory look, I will crash into you. Luckily nobody got hurt. But all week we were all playing dodgems with idiots who seemed to be firmly of the belief that they were skiing on private pistes.
|
fixed it for you..or did you look before entering the piste, and if so how did you manage to crash into her? |
Not fixed for me at all. Considering you weren't there, and I was, I'm intrigued to know how you know so much about it?
I skied down the piste, I was at a sensible speed, I was acting properly. She pushed out from the side without looking, right into my path, I couldn't get out the way without crashing into somebody else, so I crashed into her. And, as Dave has kindly pointed out, the instructor accompanying her basically gave me that partly apologetic, and partly just depressed look of "sorry mate... I get this every day".
Was I going too fast to avoid her? Yes. Yes I was. Was I going unreasonably fast? No, I wasn't. As I originally posted, she pushed out merely 10ft in front of me. If we had to spend all day skiing at speeds where you can come to a complete halt in 10ft, we're all going to have to ski extremely slowly. If skiing at 30mph, you get approximately 0.75 seconds to deal with something 10ft in front of you. By the time you've looked left and right to see where you can go, you've already hit them.
Again, as Dave has kindly pointed out, the skier setting off from the side of the piste, or merging into a piste, has a responsibility to observe traffic from above and join in a manner which doesn't pose a threat. It is not up to skiers on the downhill run to predict the actions of those stood on the side of the piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@dp, re read what you wrote - I just didn't read it the way you describe...you didn't say clearly in your first post that she pushed out in front of you . I've accepted what Dave said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Maybe you should have enquired then and asked me to clarify, rather than telling me how it all went down?
If I had jumped onto the piste without looking, in a post where I was ranting about it, that'd make me something of a hypocrite... not add to my point!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
It is not up to skiers on the downhill run to predict the actions of those stood on the side of the piste.
|
of course it isn't, any more than it's the responsibility of drivers on a major road to anticipate people who might whizz out of a side road without adequate thought. It's just part of defensive driving to expect people to do dumb things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dp wrote: |
Maybe you should have enquired then and asked me to clarify, rather than telling me how it all went down?
If I had jumped onto the piste without looking, in a post where I was ranting about it, that'd make me something of a hypocrite... not add to my point! |
maybe I should have done, but I didn't. Sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| philwig wrote: |
| Personally, I'd never stop anywhere other people could possibly hit me, so I'm not a slalom pole because I'm not there |
You never stop at the side of the piste to wait for friends? Or to plan the next bit of your route? Or stop at the back of a lift queue? (Yes, I've seen people taken out when some idiot has not stopped in time.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
stop at the back of a lift queue?
|
that's a particularly dangerous spot, I reckon. A chalet host we stayed with once had just had a wrist broken when a child smashed into her in a lift queue. Lots of people feel their masculinity is threatened unless they stop with a great skid and a shower of snow, just at the back of the queue. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
stop at the back of a lift queue?
|
that's a particularly dangerous spot, I reckon. A chalet host we stayed with once had just had a wrist broken when a child smashed into her in a lift queue. Lots of people feel their masculinity is threatened unless they stop with a great skid and a shower of snow, just at the back of the queue. |
I haven't skied at particular busy time of the season for quite many years now. Though even during non-peak time, there's always a crowd at the lift. People waiting for their friends. They seem to all stop at random spots, forming a rather untidy mob at the edge of the lift corral. While annoying, I try to carefully thread my way through that mob scene till I'm inside the corral. Failing that, I just stand behind some people so I'm not directly in the line of fire from everyone coming down the straightaway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
stop at the back of a lift queue?
|
that's a particularly dangerous spot, I reckon. A chalet host we stayed with once had just had a wrist broken when a child smashed into her in a lift queue. Lots of people feel their masculinity is threatened unless they stop with a great skid and a shower of snow, just at the back of the queue. |
Key skills - Stop with the tips of your poles pointing directly at inbound traffic. On busy slopes, I also ski with an extra wide arm stance especially when skiing behind my kids. Makes a bigger target to avoid ....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
^ I hate blocking behaviour and firmly believe that unless you are really good at it and really tight to your kid you are actually presenting a bigger hazard as an overtaker goes past you and has more chance of hitting your kid who they haven't been able to see and thus avoiding due to your screen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
Again, as Dave has kindly pointed out, the skier setting off from the side of the piste, or merging into a piste, has a responsibility to observe traffic from above and join in a manner which doesn't pose a threat. It is not up to skiers on the downhill run to predict the actions of those stood on the side of the piste.
|
Absolutely correct in terms of right of way.
But there is another aspect to this hazard awareness and defensive skiing - the exact parallel to defensive driving.
Years ago I did a sales job which involved a lot of driving. My employer too safety seriously and all people with company cars had to do some training in defensive driving (sort of cut down version of the Advanced Driving qualification). Part of that was to drive giving a constant commentary on all the hazards you could see "30 sign ahead, parked car with wheels turned out into road, car waiting to enter from left" and of course you were supposed to alter course and speed accordingly. For example - if you see a car waiting to enter from left you start planning what to do if he pulls out without looking (check mirrors, maybe move out into middle of road just in case if there is room, perhaps slow done a bit if not, perhaps ease of throttle and cover brake, etc etc).
All that if pretty useful but when you start cycling it becomes much more important. When I ride to work I am constantly adjusting speed and road position to protect myself against THE POSSIBILITY that people not giving me my right of way (cars pulling out without looking, pedestrians stepping of the kerb without looking, etc).
I do this skiing as well. If I see someone standing at the edge of the piste I am alert to the possibility that they might pull out and will take some precautionary action rather than simply accept that if they do we crash. I'm not saying that means I am never at risk of collision but I don't think it is good skiing to rely on everone else doing exactly what the rules say they should.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| mishmash wrote: |
Key skills - Stop with the tips of your poles pointing directly at inbound traffic. On busy slopes, I also ski with an extra wide arm stance especially when skiing behind my kids. Makes a bigger target to avoid .... |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ^ I hate blocking behaviour and firmly believe that unless you are really good at it and really tight to your kid you are actually presenting a bigger hazard as an overtaker goes past you and has more chance of hitting your kid who they haven't been able to see and thus avoiding due to your screen. |
Stance - I mean this http://www.yourskicoach.com/glossary/SkiGlossary/Stacked_files/shapeimage_18.png not this https://skiconditioning.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/ski-turn-close-stance.jpg
"Blocking" - I m the last skier on the snake , we are doing most of the overtaking and I m a sensible distance behind the last child in case she falls. I m just taking a correct wide skiing stance but that makes me look a lot bigger target/ Hazard than I really am. Like throwing your arms out a bear to look bigger... 
And I do this most frequently on the slope where these two fatalities occurred. Ideally , we avoid that piste as there are a couple of quieter runs but sometimes there is no choice. "Serpentine" to Flaine Foret and the Grands Vans lift. Its the super fast carvers who you know have no chance of pulling up that scare me most. Back Protectors all round and this year, MIPS helmets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Maybe it's just me getting older and slower but I did think there was an alarming rise in speed and recklessness this year. The proliferation of i-phone apps doesn't help; some of my group were determined to achieve the most km and the max km/h.
The introduction of wider ski's and lighter materials has enabled relatively inexperienced skiers to access all parts of the mountain, so there's bound to be more accidents, injuries and fatalities.
...and we all feel much safer wearing helmets even though we're all running around like uranium tipped bullets!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| jellylegs wrote: |
Maybe it's just me getting older and slower but I did think there was an alarming rise in speed and recklessness this year. The proliferation of i-phone apps doesn't help; some of my group were determined to achieve the most km and the max km/h.
The introduction of wider ski's and lighter materials has enabled relatively inexperienced skiers to access all parts of the mountain, so there's bound to be more accidents, injuries and fatalities.
...and we all feel much safer wearing helmets even though we're all running around like uranium tipped bullets! |
1 Yep - I think its a factor but only in the sense of enabling cockwombles to be even more cockwombly.
2 If anything this should spread crowds out more but probably doesn't. People skiing backseat and doing shoulder heave turns on piste skis are just doing the same on their bigger rockered skis.
3 I really don't believe in the risk compensation argument about helmets nor that they intrinsically cause more damage - have you ever had a full skull to skull collision or skull to knee to collision ((perhaps in field sports) - the skull is a pretty brutal object anyway.
I don't think that, objectively, skiing recklessness has got any worse - just that there are a significant minority of skiers who behave for whatever reason, selfishly and as if its all a massive laff and cos they are on holiday or wiv the ladz or have massive bollox they don't owe any duty of care to others. And that's unlikely to change as these people are bread n butter for resorts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I suspect the cockwombles may be relatively concentrated in a small number of big name resorts. They are not "bread 'n butter" for all resorts; if you prefer to avoid them, go somewhere else. I see scarcely any recklessly stupid skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
It's incredibly easy to identify cockwomblish behaviour in others, but vanishingly hard to identify it it in yourself...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
| When I was having motorbike lessons, the instructor said to me "you have to look at every single car on the road and assume that the driver is trying to kill you. Forget road laws, and rights of way. Go to a graveyard, it'll be home to plenty of people who had right of way." |
| Quote: |
| (Re cyclists) I think you overestimate the intelligence of the average driver. They do pull out of junctions without looking, all the time, sometimes whilst using their phones. |
I cycle to work a lot. Been knocked off (thankfully only bruised/shocked) and nearly hit on a number of occasions by cars emerging from side roads on my left. It's true - they just don't see cyclists....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I try to be a sentient cockwomble and at least moderate my inherent cockwomblishness on crowded slopes. As cockwomblishness is in the eye of the beholder though my perception of appropriate speed and separation is not necessarily that of all other slope users.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, @Richard_Sideways, @Richard_Sideways, @Dave of the Marmottes, ....this all takes us into the territory of 'The Rules' and rule compliance. On Saturday I was doing research with young people at a huge indoor skateboard and bmx facility - lots of usage and very interesting as to the level of rule conformance amongst the young peeps - aged 4-19. Almost no shouting at each other; absolute adherence to 'drop in' rules; always helping fallen riders; helping each other learn tricks. All much against the culture of youth as unruly. There were few facility staff there, and they needed merely to observe, not intervene. It was interesting and impressive. Made me think about the parallels - or not - with being on the hill.
In the original post I was specifically thinking of 'dropping in' from off piste - and the acute risks of the approach which most people use - ie just doing it.
So what are the contrasts with the apparently rebellious youth who nonetheless were really rule-abiding in the skate facility (it was scooter riders we were interviewing on this occasion). I think the kids all felt part of the same community - in contrast to skiing and boarding in which there is a huge range of cultures and sub-cultures. I think the mountain environment is characterised by personal freedoms rather than constraints - again, an interesting parallel with climbing, where anything goes as long as it's not stupid and will kill you. But even there I have seen conflicts, particularly regarding competition on routes, people wrecking the hill or leaving things (which I won't mention since it tends to be unmentionable) and dropping things or dislodging things on people below.
But the mountains typically are a place where you feel 'free'. OK...here's an attempt at a list:
- many different sub groups and subcultures (oldies; yoof; skiers; boarders; one-piece wearers, Bognor wearers...etc etc)
- many different nationalities (language barriers; temperamental differences; etc)
- a sense of freedom and escape from rules
- a sport with strong 'bands of friends' in groups (us and them)
- huge mix of ability levels
- the lure of speed and operating at or just beyond the envelope
- a complex activity combining skill and knowledge in a complicated cocktail
- low rule enforcement in the many places in the Alpine environment
There's probably more. I do wonder whether more 'policing' by pisteurs (do you realise what you just did...stop skiing like a prat - combined with lift pass confiscation for gross infringement?) might be a very good thing. Climbing tends to include 'that's a really bad idea', which is said far more than in skiing, with no offence being taken (although there was a fist fight between Ueli Steck and Sherpas in 2013).
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 25-04-16 16:01; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@valais2, I've noticed the "bigger boys" being quite aware and careful about my two young grand-daughters, when they are in the skatepark on bikes and scooters. We don't let them do it when there are a lot of kids there though - it's not fair on the older, faster, ones and the little ones could well cause a problem by being unaware.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I see the (snow) terrain park is actually not that bad.
I think a lot of the mountains are just too big to be taken in by even adults, let alone kids. Some of the "cockwomblish" behavior stem from ignorance, rather than bad intention.
Unlike in a skate park, which is clearly a limited resource to be shared, the mountain seem big enough to be "free". But there're bottleneck areas that everyone needs to modify their behavior. Most do, but it only takes a few who don't to really wreck havoc.
The re-joining piste is a good example. 9 out of 10 times, jumping out of the woods into an empty piste was totally fine, which builds a habit of NOT checking as carefully as one should. Then came the 10th time when there's a collision! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dp wrote: |
When I was having motorbike lessons, the instructor said to me "you have to look at every single car on the road and assume that the driver is trying to kill you. Forget road laws, and rights of way. Go to a graveyard, it'll be home to plenty of people who had right of way." I have to admit I'm starting to look at piste skiing in a similar manner. |
Yep - my motorbike instructor told me fairly much the same thing 'No point in being right if you are dead'
It works for driving, bikes and skiing. It becomes natural to work out where people might be by the time you get there and plan evasive action in advance. You don't even really need to think about it after a while.
(I've only had one collision on the slopes.....caught an edge about 100 yards from the lift queue, sort of fell, lost one ski but managed to land on my other ski, spent 4 seconds trying to work out how to turn/stop on one ski, didn't manage it, fell and took out about 10 people in the lift queue. Sometimes you can't plan for idiots.  )
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
