 Poster: A snowHead
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I see the the threads such as "the French are at it again" and note that tension is rising ... High emotional tension alongside the high air temperatures. I know many small businesses and specialist suppliers in the Alps, including in our 'home' village of Montana, in the Valais - and they are all under terrible financial pressure. No problem this year getting a parking place. No queues at the lift stations. No people in the cafes - on and off the hill. Empty streets at night. No motorway queues.
It's not good.
It's no wonder that ESF is getting tetchy. It's not justified but there IS a cause. There are few clients around, for a set of businesses (hire shops, ski schools, cafes, lift companies, transfer companies....and many more) that rely on a peak of activity at Christmas, Feb half term and Easter.
In many ways, our own behaviour is the problem. So many people are holding off booking in order to see where the snow is - understandable, but there's an expectation that the same skiing can always be done - deep and steep, long-distance hacking, and all the days which demand deep, wide snow cover. And that's just not here. And it's such a dillemma....if Crans had been even vaguely full, then the few slopes open would have resembled a Japanese commuter train. As it was, there was no one there, the snow was crap, and we had a ball. We just did loads of technical training and coaching - up and down the same runs, working hard on technique on the combined boilerplate and chunky sludge. Looked at one way, terrible. But we adjusted our mindset and had a great time - and the social time in the bar and on the terrace in the sun was cool too - just people we knew.
But the economics were terrible, and many great small businesses are going to hurt badly, if they survive. The Savoie already is a special economic development area, with lots of special subsidy to allow us all to go skiing, and in CH the lift companies are posting the kind of accounts which make British Leyland look like a successful business.
It's awful.
So now the snow has arrived, book that long weekend, get on the web and book Easter (since the snow seems to come later and later - we were up to our knees in powder at Easter last year, all over the hill, and we were the only ones there). And if there's no snow late this year, just adjust your mindsets and still have a great time. But if we don't get out there the villages and the ski opportunities may not be there in seasons to come. Ski resorts close as well as open...as does your favourite independent or official ski school....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sure they'll be there in some form - just your favourite family resort might end up turning into a private member's club for the uberwealthy.
CH has it's own problems primarily IMV due to the inability or unwillingness to properly deflate its currency. It is simply astoundingly poor value compared to its neighbours.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, ...couldn't agree more re currency management - in 2002 it was 2.50 to the 1gbp, and CH was good value at that time, unbelievably. The Swiss spent billions try to hold the currency down during the height of the recession and then pegged to the Euro out of desperation and at the wrong time (far too late) but then blew it with uncoupling (at the wrong time). Small businesses in CH are very critical of the Federal administration and in some cases have taken things into their own hands as far as they can.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well, in what I hope is a positive spirit of discussing weather, which I think you're saying has improved....
Running businesses which have weather risk is... risky, considering the historical record. People have made lots of money from that risk though - developing whole resorts on the gamble than the snow will arrive. Sometimes it works, sometimes... well there are lots of closed ski areas.
Tourists at least have very short memories, but poor seasons are a regular feature of the snow business. My own interests require snow. If there's no snow, if it's poor, if it's tracked out, or if it's been rained on, then there's simply no business. Zero. I don't think this is a problem particularly: if it wasn't a feature of the business then there'd be a lot of poorly run businesses out there. It's not supposed to be easy.
Customers who feel the need to book a destination in advance may have a problem, although perhaps those people are the type who don't mind switching sports, otherwise they'd change tactics.
As far as your initial point - the reference to the "at it again" thread. I think that the whole closed-shop / battening down the hatches approach is probably a losing strategy. It reduces the quality of service you can provide, and it attempts to avoid competition rather than meeting it head on. Historically the French wine industry may be a case in point of the "stick head in sand and hope world goes away" approach to business. I think countries with a more open approach will do better. The ESF probably isn't going to change any time soon though.
In the 1990s I often rode in November; these days I often ride in May. Mostly in Austria and last year Spain. It just seems less hassle than places where if I wear a "guide" jacket I may get arrested.
Currency wise, that's a good point. The "Canadian Peso" has made a return along with the snow this season - rates aren't quite at historic peak for the UK but they're not bad. Picking a ski destination based on snow plus currency rates sounds like a good idea. I will have to think about how the tour companies carry that risk.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Meanwhile it is fit to freeze.......... off.....a.........in the Espace Killy where both resorts are reporting an increase in visitor numbers over last year and forward bookings to the end of the season are very healthy.
As for 'the French are at it again' see my detailed viewpoint on that thread. In sum there are no details in the public domain as to who (if there is one) the complainant is. But the police have decided that the law has been broken and a court has upheld that. If the law is an ass - then challenge it under European law or get qualified as hundreds of other British instructors have in France, set up a winning business model and beat the French ski schools by being better.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The European Alps are melting and drying.
There is a massive oversupply of ski resorts.
European inflation since the Euro has made skiing expensive.
Green zealots and EU bureaucrats are making it harder to make profits.
Everyone under 40 has grown up tainted by the bad-snow, global-warming era.
The Internet generation under 20 spends more of their leisuretime in the virtual world.
European demographics overall are shifting to people from poorer and hotter countries who don't ski.
In other words, the longterm outlook for European skiing -- particularly for resorts below 1800m -- is bleak.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
The Internet generation under 20 spends more of their leisuretime in the virtual world. |
You're just spewing garbage you ingested from some self-professing "expert" and you're trying to pass yourself off as one.
Kids 20 and younger are basically being herded by their parents and teachers to do whatever the adults thought they should. They don't have to like it but they do it. They have every right to enjoy their time in the virtual world. That however, doesn't mean they don't still live in the real world and having real fun.
I teach skiing and kayaking to kids. They enjoy the activity just as much. In fact, they have MORE fun than many adults. Because they can 'connect' with other cool kids doing cool stuff! (yeah, I got pretty good at taking video of kids skiing and kayaking. You have me as a instructor? You LOOK much 'cooler' than your buddy!  )
Contrary to what a few adults were fearing, the internet isn't necessarily a distraction. It's a supplement of the world we live in. Teenagers are the quickest to embrace it. The knee jerk reaction of those few adults are just that, knee jerk reactions.
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Maybe we all track our carbon footprint -and this higher it gets, the less we're allowed to ski. Give it ten years.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
The European Alps are melting and drying.
The Alps themselves are rock and are therefore not melting. The Glaciers have been in retreat for the last 20 years. Snow amounts have been less in the last 30 years, snowmaking has assisted.
There is a massive oversupply of ski resorts.
The carparks in Tignes are completely full in the peak weeks and people are still investing by building more and more apartments. Prices across France are high in all peak weeks.
European inflation since the Euro has made skiing expensive.
A Demi Stella is still the same price as it was in 2008.
Green zealots and EU bureaucrats are making it harder to make profits.
Not sure on this one but the drop in fuel prices has made a significant impact on airline profits and heating bills - one of the biggest overheads for an alpine business.
Everyone under 40 has grown up tainted by the bad-snow, global-warming era.
I didn't start skiing till 26 years ago and have had 40 holidays none of which have been spoiled by bad snow.
The Internet generation under 20 spends more of their leisuretime in the virtual world.
No - they are just sharing it in the virtual world. Tour Operators have an endless supply of volunteers to work for next to nothing.
European demographics overall are shifting to people from poorer and hotter countries who don't ski.
As population increases that may be true but there are still as many of the richer cold country inhabitants to stop the decline of the ski industry.
In other words, the longterm outlook for European skiing -- particularly for resorts below 1800m -- is bleak.
The outlook for resorts above 2100m is fantastic, those between 1500 and 1800 need to invest in snowmaking those below 1500m may need to concentrate on summer activities.
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@chocksaway, There is no point in trying to converse or counter @Whitegold.
@Whitegold is like a one way valve of easy flowing BS.
No comments or points made throughout the history of  's will be supported by any evidence or reference, nor will any counter-arguments ever be answered....
And that is because all of @Whitegold's posts are FACT FACT FACT!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@flangesax, I appreciate that but just occasionally it is good to present counter arguments so some lazy journo doesn't use it as copy. It happens a lot in the Aviation World: "from a reliable industry source" is actually a cut and paste from PPrune, which sometimes is good but a lot of the time is filled with BS.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The bottom line is that the disposable income in the European economy has shifted. The baby boomers set themselves up with great pensions and are living to reip old ages. Go to any garden centre, carvery or west end musical and see them all spending away this week. Why do you think there are so many huge liners in the world these days and why motorhomes sell so well.
Most under 50 still have ahige mortage, are paying off student debts or are subsidising thier kids through university.
resorts catering for older skiers are as busy as ever. The days of cramming 8 people in a rabbit hutch in Avoriaz for £200 per week are waning. Meanwhile retired preofeesionals are satying in fuly booked 4* hotels in Lech, Megeve and the Dolomites.
The Silver pound is where the money is. the resort that realise this will thrive. The Dolomites saw the weather patterns 20 years ago, realised they were at the low and dry end of the Alps so invested massively in snow making and upmarket hotels.
Val Thorens, despite being snow sure has seen the way forwards and is moving upmarket in terms of accomodation.
with the oil price crashing , so will the Nouvo Riche visitors from the East. Class will prevail - not that that's great thing....
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| Quote: |
| The outlook for resorts above 2100m is fantastic, those between 1500 and 1800 need to invest in snowmaking those below 1500m may need to concentrate on summer activities. |
Mere altitude is such a blunt instrument. Longitude and latitude are as important. All those Austrian resorts well below 1500m (places like SkiWelt, Wildschonau, Kitzbuhel/Kirchberg etc) have made massive infrastructure investments and managed to keep trading all over New Year on nearly all man made. One snow drought early season does not predict the future. There were worse snow droughts in the 1980s but back then resorts had to remain closed. Fact is, we probably try and ski too early in the season and give up too early too.
Otherwise, the demographic time bomb has always been coming for skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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@cameronphillips2000, probably explains the sales of Viagra as well.
Going back to the thrust of the thread, I imagine that the lower resorts have had it pretty tough this season up to now but the higher ones didn't do too badly. Business at a small ski hire shop in Val Thorens is around the same as usual so far.
If this global warming malarky continues as it seems to be doing then I think Whitegold is correct in one respect and that is that the investment in the european alps will continue to move up in altitude.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
The bottom line is that the disposable income in the European economy has shifted. The baby boomers set themselves up with great pensions and are living to reip old ages. Go to any garden centre, carvery or west end musical and see them all spending away this week. Why do you think there are so many huge liners in the world these days and why motorhomes sell so well.
Most under 50 still have ahige mortage, are paying off student debts or are subsidising thier kids through university.
resorts catering for older skiers are as busy as ever. The days of cramming 8 people in a rabbit hutch in Avoriaz for £200 per week are waning. Meanwhile retired preofeesionals are satying in fuly booked 4* hotels in Lech, Megeve and the Dolomites.
The Silver pound is where the money is. the resort that realise this will thrive. The Dolomites saw the weather patterns 20 years ago, realised they were at the low and dry end of the Alps so invested massively in snow making and upmarket hotels.
Val Thorens, despite being snow sure has seen the way forwards and is moving upmarket in terms of accomodation.
with the oil price crashing , so will the Nouvo Riche visitors from the East. Class will prevail - not that that's great thing.... |
I think there is some truth in what you say regarding the bulge in disposable spending for the baby boomers, however you also seem to be ignoring the fact that every generation now has more disposable income than they have ever had before. We are all getting richer. The question is why more of that wealth isn't working its way into the Alpine communities.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think its win some lose some. We have the same issues with UK tourism both from outside and inside the UK. Some years are good and some are bad.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Pruman wrote: |
Fact is, we probably try and ski too early in the season and give up too early too.
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The giving up to early is a really good point. Each year I go to the 3 vallees in April and May, usually trying to coincide with the coprop meeting for our building. Certainly, April has some of the most reliable and best snow of the season, at altitude anyway. Yet the slopes are absolutely empty. The French have already switched on to summer activities and even during Easter, if it's in April, the place is quiet.
Early December and all through April are my favourite times just for that reason.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
The bottom line is that the disposable income in the European economy has shifted. The baby boomers set themselves up with great pensions and are living to reip old ages. Go to any garden centre, carvery or west end musical and see them all spending away this week. Why do you think there are so many huge liners in the world these days and why motorhomes sell so well.
Most under 50 still have ahige mortage, are paying off student debts or are subsidising thier kids through university.
resorts catering for older skiers are as busy as ever. The days of cramming 8 people in a rabbit hutch in Avoriaz for £200 per week are waning. Meanwhile retired preofeesionals are satying in fuly booked 4* hotels in Lech, Megeve and the Dolomites.
The Silver pound is where the money is. the resort that realise this will thrive. The Dolomites saw the weather patterns 20 years ago, realised they were at the low and dry end of the Alps so invested massively in snow making and upmarket hotels.
Val Thorens, despite being snow sure has seen the way forwards and is moving upmarket in terms of accomodation.
with the oil price crashing , so will the Nouvo Riche visitors from the East. Class will prevail - not that that's great thing.... |
I think there is some truth in what you say regarding the bulge in disposable spending for the baby boomers, however you also seem to be ignoring the fact that every generation now has more disposable income than they have ever had before. We are all getting richer. The question is why more of that wealth isn't working its way into the Alpine communities. |
I'm not so sure about this one. If you look at what the average family of four is paying on rent or mortgage, throw in other fixed monthly spends and compar eit to average earnings in the UK and you'll be suprised how little is left. Put the price of oil back up ot whre it will head once OPEC has driven th eNorth American Frackers out of business ans things are going to be very tight again. why do you think we've had deflation. There is no demand.
We are better off on that consumer durables, particulalarly electronics have plummeted - in 1996 e decent PC cost a grand, for example. Prices have tumbled in these areas to to masive supply rises in Asia but Skiing holidays can't be shipped in cheaply on the back of chea labour from China. Most of a resort's costs are labour and energy. Both are not cheap. Flights and package holidays are nota great deal more expensive than they were 20 years ago. Lift passes have gone up pretty much inlikkne with inflation and when exchange rates blow the wrong way that's crippling.
People are being put off though by the weather. The family who usually go wwith my own family wouldn't go with us at Christmas or New Year when we asked. They felt it was just too big a risk to spend all that nad not get what they wanted. The previous year we'd all had a week skiing in slush at Easter.
I'm not sure if skiing is less glamorous than it was. In the 70's it was a jet set, Jame's Bond thing to do. With the high rise, plastic tray, motorway service station type resorts, of which France is so guilty, sprawled across the Alps, I'm not sure the sport is still so alluring. The old money resorts still blossom though. Megeve has bounced back after Courchevel became the place ot be seen for a while and Madonna, Lech and the likes are doing as well as ever.
What I do hope is that the one horse town with a few lifts keep going. There is something magical about a small mountain village with a rickety old two man chair and squeeky drag lift trudfling away up an unspolit hill with one small log cabin serving hot chocs and Grappas.
I think the European circuits is also losing out to the off piste potential of North America and, more recently Japan, which has become the new Utah. We just don't get the powder days they get and never will.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
I think there is some truth in what you say regarding the bulge in disposable spending for the baby boomers, however you also seem to be ignoring the fact that every generation now has more disposable income than they have ever had before. We are all getting richer. The question is why more of that wealth isn't working its way into the Alpine communities. |
Just a thought but if disposable income is increasing generation on generation it's probably easier (i.e. cheaper) than ever to do things like go trekking in the Himalayas or the Andes, scuba diving on the Great Barrier Reef, or indeed go skiing further afield than the Alps. Perhaps some of the people who would traditionally have spent a lot of money on numerous ski holidays in the Alpine communities are now also seeking other experiences in different countries because they've become more 'economical' and might seem a bit more 'exotic'? More people with more disposable income, more opportunities for them to do different activities further afield but roughly the same amount of leisure time might mean alpine areas lose out?
No idea if that's got any basis in reality, just musing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Mere altitude is such a blunt instrument.
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I agree but I needed a blunt instrument to bash WG over the virtual head!
PS I remember half my disposable income going on my mortgage in the early 90s when interest rates went from 8 to 14%.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| swiftoid wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
I think there is some truth in what you say regarding the bulge in disposable spending for the baby boomers, however you also seem to be ignoring the fact that every generation now has more disposable income than they have ever had before. We are all getting richer. The question is why more of that wealth isn't working its way into the Alpine communities. |
Just a thought but if disposable income is increasing generation on generation it's probably easier (i.e. cheaper) than ever to do things like go trekking in the Himalayas or the Andes, scuba diving on the Great Barrier Reef, or indeed go skiing further afield than the Alps. Perhaps some of the people who would traditionally have spent a lot of money on numerous ski holidays in the Alpine communities are now also seeking other experiences in different countries because they've become more 'economical' and might seem a bit more 'exotic'? More people with more disposable income, more opportunities for them to do different activities further afield but roughly the same amount of leisure time might mean alpine areas lose out?
No idea if that's got any basis in reality, just musing. |
Good point. A bit like Englsh seaside resorts.
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@cameronphillips2000, The proportion of our wages we spend on rent/mortgages may have increased, but most other things have decreased. I understand that we used to spend over 60% of our salary on food. In addition, many more women are working. Most families now have two cars. Flights are a fraction of the cost, in real terms, that they used to be. Any manufactured product is now dirt cheap. As you say, a resorts' costs are mostly labour and energy, neither of which have come down as fast as other things, but those really only affect the lift pass itself. Proportionately, skiing has become possibly become more expensive when compared to the alternatives. Twenty years ago how many people went away for winter sun?
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Interestingly, while most destinations have suffered a slight drop in visitors post-recession it is only Switzerland that is in long term decline. All other areas are up on where they were 12 years ago.
http://vanat.ch/vanat-JS-majors-2014-E.pdf
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@valais2, while I don't like to see anyone who has invested time and money in developing a business only to see it fail, I have no more sympathy for them than I do for any business that suffers because of a downturn in whatever shape or form that takes. The BBC are reporting this morning that Port Talbot Steelworks is shedding 1000 jobs. That is happening in an area that already has suffered from industrial decline and there is little prospect of those who lose their jobs finding equivalent employment. The knock-on effect to the local community will be enormous. The oil industry is similar. I have a couple of friends who are contractors in the industry and one hasn't worked in over a year while the other is approaching 10 months.
In circumstances like this the french government bow to pressure and decide the rules they expect everyone else to follow suddenly don't apply to them. They will become very protectionist even when they have facilitated/sanctioned situations such as BAS.
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@chocksaway, "
PS I remember half my disposable income going on my mortgage in the early 90s when interest rates went from 8 to 14%."
Not wishing to enter a PI**ing competition but I remember ours hitting 17% in 82 or 83  No fixed deals then either, you got one months notice of the increase as I remember, but there was still miras then).
By contrast I had my first skiing holiday in 89 when I had sold the lot and lived off the interest for a bit  , before diving back in just in time later.......
We bought an alpine shoebox in 2003 and they are still changing hands for more than double the purchase price, in euros, then. I really only know about France but it seems to me that skiing is far less fashionable / normal / aspirational for the french than it was, although those February weeks are still pretty well 100%. Might not be connected but when we used to leave our car in Lyon airport in 2004'ish the long term car park was relatively modest, now it is enormous and is full of french cars, in the summer they cordon off loads of other areas, gravel, grassed whatever and park more cars on them, which indicates to me that despite their difficult finances, the french are going further for their holidays and maybe moving away from the traditional winter holiday in the alps and summer on the coast. Having said that there are still plenty of new developments appearing in Alpe d'Huez and when I was on the South Coast in Frejus at the end of the summer there were several large developments appearing all around there.
I agree with @Pruman, and @emwmarine, though, easter can be very much a wasted resource for the resorts. We always do Easter and have had some fantastic snowy weeks, one almost complete failure 5 (?) years ago, but then I guess for tour operators, airlines etc. it can impinge on their changeover to summer schedules so they maybe have little interest in promoting it. Might change if we get the fixed Easter ? but that depends when it is fixed at 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@skitow, it was the ending of joint tax relief in '88 that lead to the house price boom and then it all crashed on Black Wednesday '92 (leaving the Exchange Rate Mechanism) when Norman "Fisting" Lamont raised interest rates from an already high 10% to 15% in one morning. My mortgage was already well over half my income and I remember my provider responding by calling it a nice round 19% which left me captain flint. It was impossible to move lender and they knew it. Meanwhile I could buy a package of Snow Train and B&B for about a hundred quid and a week lift pass was well under 100 quid so we still got away.
Back then I was earning about £20k a year. Graduates doing similar jobs today (a quarter of a century later) are still earning about £20k a year. When they look at spending a grand on a ski trip they think twice.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@skitow, Ouch - now you raise an interesting debate - if we fix Easter which weekend would suit the skiing industry best? Anyone got the Pope's Mobile? Although Pope JP2 was a bit of a skier IIRC.
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Maybe it is ones perception of Swiss resorts that may result in a decline. It would seem to me that the resorts that continue to invest in their infrastructure, such as snowmaking and lifts will succeed long term and those that don't will struggle. Whilst it is nice to holiday in a more traditional resort, there is no escaping that the skiing experience is superb in the big French resorts. When the "holiday" experience is prioritised the expectation of the off slope facilities are that much greater and therefore expensive ... If I am on a "sporting" skiing holiday the quality of the skiing is paramount, all I then need is somewhere to lay my head and have a beer.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
It would seem to me that the resorts that continue to invest in their infrastructure, such as snowmaking and lifts will succeed long term and those that don't will struggle. Whilst it is nice to holiday in a more traditional resort, there is no escaping that the skiing experience is superb in the big French resorts.
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I agree that investment on the skiing should be the priority, but I would say that it is some of the traditional resorts, particularly those which join forces, which have invested to the greatest effect in snow making and piste preparation (e.g. Dolomites, Kitzbuhel, Skiwelt) the lift systems are not shabby either. Large French resorts I have been to recently are not a patch on these for piste management in poor snow years. I am very relaxed about heading for Italy next week despite the low snowfall. Everything is open and looks good. If the snow pattern had been reversed and the weather had been stuck in the south, I would not be nearly so confident heading to France.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@chocksaway, Apparently the idea was first put forward in the 10th century, so don't see it coming all that quick
You are right though, which date is crucial for skiers. The favourites I believe are the 2nd or 3rd Sunday after the first Saturday in April so it could be rather late for us lot, and to be honest that is probably how the majority of people would want it, for an early holiday in the sun.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| valais2 wrote: |
| ... And if there's no snow late this year, just adjust your mindsets and still have a great time. But if we don't get out there the villages and the ski opportunities may not be there in seasons to come. Ski resorts close as well as open...as does your favourite independent or official ski school.... |
Why go if there's no snow - to support the local businesses?
We're in the Dolomites right now where it's about -12C but there has been very little natural snow, but the long term investment in snow making capacity has paid off with superb skiing conditions. Bluntly, the French have sat on their arsés and invested the minimum in their increasingly run down skiing infrastructure and are now suffering the penalty.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Gaza, I have to agree with that. I have huge sympathy for OP's sentiments, but to use the analogy of Port Talbot Steelworks, I think what OP is suggesting is that, although we all want to buy copper, we should buy steel, because then Port Talbot can stay open in case we need steel some day in the future.
That obviously isn't a realistic plan. We all have little enough disposable income and if we want to go on a ski holiday each year, we want to go somewhere we can ski, and ideally ski good snow. High end hotels and nice little bars and restaurants are all grand, but that's not what people go on ski holidays for ultimately. Snowmaking is an option for some resorts but my own philosophy if booking any significant time in advance has always been to go high, or to go somewhere you can easily access the higher altitudes.
I also feel like there might have been a bit of a shift in the seasons because it always seems we get lots of snow late on now. Apparently in the UK you are more likely to get snow at easter than a white Christmas. I bet the Alps have loads of snow late season this year to make up for the slow start.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@monkey, ...OK so some years copper falls out of the sky and sometimes steel, and last year the steel came in vast quantities in April. What I AM arguing is that if you shift your aims slightly - for example, doing on limited runs some intensive improvement of technique rather than going for long distance bashing - then limited snow cover is not a disaster and does not result in a dire time. And has the added benefit of keeping the lift companies viable. Although we loved the empty slopes at Christmas there could have been loads more people enjoying themselves, without making the place dangerously crowded....there it is....very straightforward
Last year in April we had the mountain to ourselves - in waist deep powder, for 10 days - right 'til the last lift stopped lifting...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| irie wrote: |
We're in the Dolomites right now where it's about -12C but there has been very little natural snow, but the long term investment in snow making capacity has paid off with superb skiing conditions. |
Man made snow is to skiing what a blow up doll is to love.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| valais2 wrote: |
@monkey, ...OK so some years copper falls out of the sky and sometimes steel, and last year the steel came in vast quantities in April. What I AM arguing is that if you shift your aims slightly - for example, doing on limited runs some intensive improvement of technique rather than going for long distance bashing - then limited snow cover is not a disaster and does not result in a dire time. And has the added benefit of keeping the lift companies viable. Although we loved the empty slopes at Christmas there could have been loads more people enjoying themselves, without making the place dangerously crowded....there it is....very straightforward
Last year in April we had the mountain to ourselves - in waist deep powder, for 10 days - right 'til the last lift stopped lifting... |
Why should anyone shift their aims? The vast majority of people go skiing for fun, typically at Christmas, half term, and Easter, and if they can't do it when they want to they will ultimately do something else - skiing is not the only thing in the world.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Duplicate post.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 19-01-16 7:37; edited 1 time in total
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Triplicate post.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 19-01-16 7:38; edited 1 time in total
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| davidof wrote: |
| irie wrote: |
We're in the Dolomites right now where it's about -12C but there has been very little natural snow, but the long term investment in snow making capacity has paid off with superb skiing conditions. |
Man made snow is to skiing what a blow up doll is to love. |
Nothing wrong with man made snow then.
Before Christmas in the Sella Ronda its all we had but it was perfect and indistinguishable for natural groomed. Its not the aggressive stuff it used to be.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@irie, ...skiing is not the only thing in the world (!!!!)
Good grief - this is Snowheads not Twitterlinked-in Book - moderator BAN this person immediately.
Not the only thing in the world....I ask you....
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| davidof wrote: |
| irie wrote: |
We're in the Dolomites right now where it's about -12C but there has been very little natural snow, but the long term investment in snow making capacity has paid off with superb skiing conditions. |
Man made snow is to skiing what a blow up doll is to love. |
Also in the dolomities pre christmas , the sun was shining,javascript:emoticon('') no natural snow in fact you could play golf off piste. Piste conditions were perfect , infact we skied around the sella ronda both way one day with out hitting a bad patch, their snow making is amazing. indeed most people we talked on the slopes said they preferred the man made snow....... Havings said that some off piste would be nice..... but you can not have everything
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FAQ
