 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I recently purchased a pair of Arc' Teryx Sawatch pant as they fit me well and seem well designed and comfortable. I am wondering what kind of ski thermals / underwear will I need to keep warm in these as they are thiner than my previous hard shell pants.
For thermals, I currently have Patagonia Capilene 3 baselayer and also Smartwool NTS 250. Will these be warm enough with just the pants? Or should I get a warmer pair perhaps like the expedition weight Patagonia? If so what really warm thermal/baselayer is recommended?
I will be skiing in February, downhill in the French Alps.
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stick your gear on and ski. If you're cold buy some cheap stuff in resort. Simples.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome to snowheads, @pred02. That gear would be very warm in mild weather and possibly chilly if temperatures are low AND you are a cold mortal. There's no telling! At new year you'd have died of heatstroke. 
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@pred02,
If it's these http://arcteryx.com/ProductFind.aspx?language=EN&CMPID=Google%7Carcteryx%20sawatch%20pant%7Cp%7C57759283635%7Ct%7C&search=Sawatch&gclid=CPzc57Ckk8oCFU2NGwodCrAA3w
"The Sawatch Pant is a backcountry focused softshell pant delivering thermal regulation, performance stretch and weather protection. Features are purpose driven, and provide optimal performance without adding unnecessary weight.
Selected due to its ability to provide comfort during varied levels of output, the midweight Arc’teryx Trusaro™ softshell material is a hardwearing, air permeable, snow shedding"
"For high output touring" i.e. where you'd be sweating your etc off in anything else but a mankini.
Were they a nice colour?
Your biggest problem is that I can't for a minute imagine that they'll be any sort of waterproof. Yes, there's a DWR and they'll "shed" water and snow but the first chair you're on? Wet bum. (Going on the description). [that said, there's a review on backcountry suggesting they stayed dry on a snowy day, that would be good]
They're not a pant designed for alpine skiing (but look awesome for touring (which is what they're intended for)).
I hope you bought the orange ones. Magnificent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@pred02, 180 merino ortovox or icebreaker 3/4 leggings (but I only buy in sale) they're expensive but do the job......have a look at Sport Conrad for ortovox they've a decent sale on. I personally don't like smartwool, goes baggy.....if you're skiing downhill you might be better in a Lycra suit though
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@pred02,
I'd get some stretchy microfleece tights - this is an example
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/eclipse-pant-9895
They also do 3/4 length ones which IMO are ideal for skiing (avoids the boot tuck shambles).
These are significantly warmer than thermals.
I use either thermal base layer (mild) or fleece tights (cold) or thermal base layer AND fleece tights (arctic!) under shells depending on the weather.
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Sweet Protection Saviour pants. Very warm
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| graeme wrote: |
| Sweet Protection Saviour pants. Very warm |
+1 the Sweet Saviour stuff is great (now discontinued for snow I believe, but you can still get them from Sweet's kayak line, and often cheap on Sport Pursuit).
Helly Hansen merino/synthetic hybrid is also great. I'm not so keen on pure merino unless it's really cold.
Some more of my thoughts here: http://www.luex.com/magazine/2014/11/18/base-layer-101/
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I have some Bamboo baselayers from BAM, they feel very warm compared to the merino wool and polyesters that I have had previously!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I bought the Beta AR Pant from SportPursuit for £135. It seemed like a good deal considering this seasons is £300. I was slightly disappointed as the material reminded me of a cheap pair of golf waterproof trousers! It is quite 'crackly' when I walk. Nevertheless I decided to keep them.
I then bought Icebreaker Apex Legless Leggings as a baselayer. These are designated as 260gm so about as heavy a baselayer as Icebreaker offer. I wore then in Tignes recently and despite it not being particularly cold, I felt there were times I could have done with something warmer. This was especially true at the top of Grande Motte.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Personal opinion as of right now .
I have been using Gamma SK softshell pants and jacket for 3 weeks at resort and glacier heights of 3250m with absolutely zero issues .
These are the arcteryx pre Sawatch type pant but very similar.
We had 20 cm the other day sitting in chairs but overall its a dire season for natural snow so far so I cant endorse breathable softshell pants in severe conds but am very impressed with the dead bird brands fit in use .
"So would say use sawatch softshell taking two layers .Use any baselayer and take a warmer power stretch lightweight pant type too as the warmer backup .
Also I am using a Gamma MX jkt with light very breathable layers and found I was cooling on open glacier chairs as these jkts are breathable ie.not windstopper same re the pants .
This cooling was too be expected by afternoon I carry a pack which takes care of backup layers.
Throwing a insulator like a Atom LT jkt on took care of the colder late afternoon glacier temps with good neck and hat cover of course which makes a huge difference as I wear no helmets .
Base pant layers.
I use merino 260weight 3/4 IB pant base layer. If its cold like normal in dec/jan glacier temps of -7 to -27 plus high wind I double layer the legs I double the 260w with a cheaper merino 200 weight.
This is a heavy leg combo but works well.
I once used it for about 6 weeks between warm -3 temps too very cold glacier temps with high wind that shut the glacier resort chairs down one by one .
My friend noted certain French lifts would have closed much earlier than sud tirol in these conds the chairs were swinging a lot before shutdown it was fun but harsh on piste if not moving, your base layers and shell were very important.I doubt softshell would have suited.
I wouldnt recommend hiking in warmer temps doubled up with merino although its strength seems to be temp range versatility. I also use proper full 3/4 zip top base layers that dump heat with this combo .
Possibly the best warm leg option is Rab Polartec Powerstretch as its superlight an very warm other brands have versions including arcteryx .
It just hasn't been cold enough to try mine yet although its -8 at 1400m this morn so after 3pm it will be colder but its not a softshell wind temp failure test yet.
Hiking rock and grass in dec in Arcteryx guide softshell pants and a summer Arcteryx long sleave phase layer my legs were sweating a little bit but the high alpine views and tranquillity on ridges were fantastic as usual .
Most of the local tourers here are into lighter upper layers than softshell but I like softshells increased durability compared to the new fragile warm outer gear for my particular use .
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 15-01-16 12:02; edited 3 times in total
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| Quote: |
Possibly the best warm leg option is Rab Polartec Powerstretch as its superlight an very warm
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FYI - this is a very similar product to the ME stuff linked to - both very good, light, comfy, warm and highly wicking
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You know it makes sense.
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^ I've got these; seconded.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| irie wrote: |
| Stick your gear on and ski. If you're cold buy some cheap stuff in resort. Simples. |
agree with this but I don't think it'll be necessary - unless its baltic -20+ windchill, I ski with touring pants (Rab Exodus - similar weight, lighter price tag) cos I'm a sweaty git and they're fine with a £2.99 sale pair of Sports Direct Campri underlayer specials if it gets nippy. . .last outing with said underlayer was Feb last year in Switzerland, spring skiing in April and all the zipped vents are open with no underlayers at all. The DWR finish is great and is enough to survive a wet chair lift . . . .plus they don't sound like a packet of crisps . . .
I love softshells - if you sweat at any level the breathability is a godsend and worth the 'total waterproofing' pay off IMO . . .
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Thanks for the feedback, it is great and exactly what I am looking for.
| Quote: |
Your biggest problem is that I can't for a minute imagine that they'll be any sort of waterproof. Yes, there's a DWR and they'll "shed" water and snow but the first chair you're on? Wet bum. (Going on the description). [that said, there's a review on backcountry suggesting they stayed dry on a snowy day, that would be good]
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I am now worried that these pants will get wet on the ski lifts. The reason I got them is that I have a real ackward waist size (31) so I went through a dozen pairs of ski pents before I found these that fit me perfectly. They are also very comfortable. I do have some very old hardshell Colombia pants (from 1997) that still fit me that I can take as a backup. It would be shame, if I cannot use these as they look like a great pant.
I am also looking to get a helmet or maybe rent one. I have a go pro (Hero 3). Would I need a special helmet that fits a go pro or can the attachment be put on anyone?
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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. . .get a chest mount for the go-pro . . .and give the chair a little wipe your glove before you sit on it and all will be well . . .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Belch wrote: |
| . . .get a chest mount for the go-pro . . .and give the chair a little wipe your glove before you sit on it and all will be well . . . |
Especially in many French resorts, the toilets really are minging.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@pred02, they look like a very nice bit of kit. But designed for output touring.
They'll be fine on a dry day, and magnif for spring skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Stick with Arcteryx base layers as well, they're made to complement the arcteyx shells, I ski with shell n 1 base layer in all conditions - never cold.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks for all the advice, I ordered the Rab Powerstretch pants will see how it goes with the Arcteryx. I will also bring my old shell pant, in case AR does not provide enough protection or they get wet.
I am going on 6th February to Val D'Isere, I am little bit worried as there has been very little snow in the Alps and it seems that only 1/3 of the resort trails are open. We still have 3 weeks to go and it seems that it has been snowing/picked up, but should I be concerned?
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@pred02, concerned about the wetness of your rear end? Yes.
About the snow? Probably not.
e.g. Chamonix has had over a metre so far this week. Snow depths are getting to around normal. Val d'Isere closed completely this week for a day (apparently) due too much snow and v. high winds.
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I agree with 'under a new name' on this. I've had a few pairs of stretch woven soft shell pants over the years. They are great for spring skiing and touring, but for average conditions skiing off lifts in the Alps in February - you will be better off in something completely windproof.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Would the Arcteryx Stingray pants do the trick? They are softshell but Goretex and should be waterproof
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without going into a long discussion - yes they'll be really good for downhill skiing. Really that kind of "softshell" performs as a hardshell but a bit warmer and with a different "feel". In my opinion they are a bit "neither one thing nor the other" in that they don't bring the improved breathability that a non-membrane softshell does and they are heavier than a hard shell (and are less useful for layering) so I wouldn't choose them for touring or mountaineering. But for lift served skiing? They will be great.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've found sailing clothing stores sell various thickness thermal base layers, including extreme cold fleece trousers which wick very well under shell trousers. Nice to have a pair of these for really cold days.
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FAQ
