 Poster: A snowHead
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am presently sitting in my house looking out on another grey day, counting down the days to our feb ski trip, after deciding I really could do without another xmas at home traipsing around various family abodes. I thought about a family ski trip (myself, wife and two kids) next xmas but seeing as the past couple of seasons in the alps have been decidedly sparse for snow, I would look at further afield, Utah/Colorado for instance. it has been over 20 years since my one and only trip to north America skiing so I thought I would start with the cost of lift passes, for both deer valley and Breckenridge the cost for a 6 day ticket averages out to $800 roughly £550 It was eye watering compared to even expensive areas such as the 3valleys, and in my opinion the 3valleys is far superior to Breckenridge though that is the only resort in north America I can compare to.
last time I went to breck with a mate, we went for two weeks over xmas and new year, either I was really flush with money or the prices have rocketed but I cannot remember them being that expensive!!!!
my eldest daughters school is going to north America this Easter, now I know why the cost of this trip is only for the extremely well off students, but that is a topic for another day!!!!
I know they tend to be guaranteed more snow than the alps this time of year, but I think if I can persuade the missus for us to bug off next xmas I might take my chances with a trip to the 3valleys but making reservations with booking.com ET AL so I can cancel nearer the time if need be if the snow cover is kak again (would book Eurotunnel and ski passes last minute).
now all I need to do is start the slow soft sell to my wife, though we are about to visit her family again this afternoon, so hopefully this will be done for me!!!!!!!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Think Vail day passes are up to $163. The good news is you can get an after 2 pm pass for $83. Lifts start closing at 2.30 and all close at 3.30.
Reality is that anyone with any sense buys an epic season pass before the end of November. Can probably get the epic local for around $500.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yikes!! That's not cheap......is northern Scandanavia an option then?😉
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US lift tickets have gotten expensive for UK folk because of resorts' profiteering, the weak Pound and low UK wages.
But the quality of the lift experience (in the west) is better than the Alps. Better snow, better websites (for lifts), better lifts, better liftlines and better lifties. Get what you pay for, etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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terrygasson, Deer Valley 6 day ticket can be had for $648 
Plenty of other places in Utah to ski cheaper, especially if purchased in advance. The exchange rate isn't going to help atm but even so £40 - £50 a day isn't out the way.
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| big davski wrote: |
| Yikes!! That's not cheap......is northern Scandanavia an option then?😉 |
There's not much snow in Scandinavia either at the moment. Åre is half open if that. Can't go much further north as its perpetual nighttime.
I've never skiied in the US but would love to, though also had noticed the lift ticket prices are incredibly expensive. A 6-8 day pass in Åre is only SEK 2055 (USD 245). Can the lifts really be three times better in North America?
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| terrygasson wrote: |
| ...for both deer valley and Breckenridge the cost for a 6 day ticket averages out to $800 roughly £550... |
Only a mug pays the full kiosk price in North America. Additionally, Breckenridge is a particularly expensive resort - Vail Resorts has a near monopoly of skiing in the Summit County region and prices accordingly.
A quick gander at American Ski Classics' web site suggests that UK visitors can get a 6 day pass in Breck for around £450 - still outrageous, but 20% lower than you quoted. But Jackson Hole - a much better resort IMV - is only £379 for 6 days. Stay a little longer in Jackson and the per day price falls rapidly: 9 days skiing costs only a little more at £437.
A lift is a lift, but, as Whitegold says, you get a very different experience in North America. Resorts tend to have relatively few lifts and relatively few guests. The result is blissfully pistes and extensive in-bounds, avalanche controlled powder and tree skiing. You don't get much in the way of motorway groomers, but, overall, I personally much prefer the North American experience.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Around £270 for my winter park season pass. Certainly not expensive
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My brother in law is staying with us at the moment and we were just discussing how expensive it was for a day pass at Park city/ canyons . He worked at the colony at the canyons for 16 years and it has gotten really expensive since the recent changes of ownership.you used to be able to buy cheaper tickets at Costco in salt lake .Another option is to buy a season pass which is $700. It covers a lot of other resorts including Verbier.we haven't been for a few years as don't get freebie's anymore.
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I wonder how much it is to do with the exchange rate varying as much as prices going up generally.
I'm going to Canada in March, and apparently I'm lucky as the Canadian dollar is quite weak at the moment (there's another option/ currency for you). As stated in my other thread, I'm paying two weeks in a small hotel for the price of one week in Andorra s/c apartment. However, truth is I was missing it (not been for 15 years) and determined to take advantage of an early Easter. Once I paid the big bill for passes/ lessons/ hire, I realised just how expensive the whole thing will be. BUT I learned, on a ski trip many years ago, the way to ruin a holiday is to add up how much it cost - so I'm trying to avoid that now and just look forward to the trip!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Orange200 wrote: |
| I wonder how much it is to do with the exchange rate varying as much as prices going up generally. |
You don't need to wonder: look here instead
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
The GBP is about 15% below its peak in 2014 but not really very much below the average for the past 5 years. Exchange rates aren't to blame. Short term revenue maximisation is.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We went to Breckenridge a couple of years ago and paid US $329 each for an Epic summit value season pass. You have to get them quite far in advance as they are only available up until a certain date (September I think) but it was easy to do, just upload photos online and they were posted out to us. There were a couple of date restrictions I recall but they didn't affect us at all. It had the added benefit that we got a couple of hours in on the last day before we were picked up for our flights back. It was significantly cheaper than a 6 day lift pass.
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Poster: A snowHead
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And I think I'm paying too much in champoluc at £185 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Got my taos season pass last april for around $500 i think which included last few weeks of last season. Pleasant surprise this week all the significant discounts it gets me (lessons, food and drink).
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Well pre season pass price for Queenstown is now about 275 pound and covers Coronet Peak, The Remarkables and also Mt Hutt near Christcurch. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It is amazing how cheap some season passes are compared to day rates, my pass costs a mere 300.00 US and that makes for some cheap skiing. You could biy passes and have q great time. Get the Mtn Collective pass and ski the west for 410 US a great deal and great resorts.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
It really is outrageous. How can they justify the prices?! Supply and demand I suppose...  |
The business model is fairly obvious - offer v good value season passes for locals and those willing to commit in advance. Then price gouge as much as possible for price insensitive visitors who either haven't planned in advance or genuinely don't care about the price. Once you've laid down a few $000 for a condo in Vail village the price of a lift pass is probably pretty small beer.
Oh and Vail day pass is now up to $175 through to New Year as peak season pricing is in effect.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Orange200 wrote: |
| I wonder how much it is to do with the exchange rate varying as much as prices going up generally. |
You don't need to wonder: look here instead
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
The GBP is about 15% below its peak in 2014 but not really very much below the average for the past 5 years. Exchange rates aren't to blame. Short term revenue maximisation is. |
Im not sure the answer is anything like as simple as 'short term revenue maximisation.' One if two resorts might be stupid enough to adopt that approach, but not all. It just doesn't make sense. Every resort is trying to maximise it's income so I think there have to be other reasons.
1. The highly litigious nature of our American cousins and outrageous damages awarded by juries may add a significant insurance burden.
2. AFAIK the ski areas are under the control of a smaller number of larger operators. The reduced competition may be a factor enabling the resorts to charge more.
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It's a business.
If you look at various comparisons of lift ticket prices then you can see what's happening there. The sort of places which are expensive (eg Bambi Basin) are perhaps the sort of places which attract.... well, the sort of people who probably don't consider prices a problem. "Deer Valley Skier" is not a term of endearment.
So some people like golf-course manicured conditions, want a Disney experience, and are prepared to pay for it. Alternatives exist for tourists and as pointed out locals don't pay those prices anyway.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
| ?... How can they justify the prices?.... |
Why should they have to justify their prices? 
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| achilles wrote: |
| Bergmeister wrote: |
| ?... How can they justify the prices?.... |
Why should they have to justify their prices? |
I'd amagine that all North American resorts have quitea high lawyers bill....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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+1 for Canada
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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High prices are for the free lip salves and energy bars dished out each morning at the base stations - and the extra smiles etc!
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Orange200 wrote: |
| I wonder how much it is to do with the exchange rate varying as much as prices going up generally. |
You don't need to wonder: look here instead
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
The GBP is about 15% below its peak in 2014 but not really very much below the average for the past 5 years. Exchange rates aren't to blame. Short term revenue maximisation is. |
Im not sure the answer is anything like as simple as 'short term revenue maximisation.' One if two resorts might be stupid enough to adopt that approach, but not all. It just doesn't make sense. Every resort is trying to maximise it's income so I think there have to be other reasons.
1. The highly litigious nature of our American cousins and outrageous damages awarded by juries may add a significant insurance burden.
2. AFAIK the ski areas are under the control of a smaller number of larger operators. The reduced competition may be a factor enabling the resorts to charge more. |
@foxtrotzulu, I think you misunderstood me. I'm a free market capitalist at heart, and, in a competitive market, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with businesses seeking to maximise short-term revenue. I don't think that insurance is to blame - most US mountain states have passed legislation to protect their ski industry from litigation - but competition and business culture almost certainly are the difference with Europe.
Many European resorts are run by local co-operatives, which impose different pressures on management compared with capital markets and institutional investors. Additionally, the Alps has intense competition between neighbouring ski areas - a town like Bourg St Maurice in France has multiple world-class resorts within 90 minutes travel, and an airport like Geneva services dozens of resorts. By contrast, Colorado, the centre of the US ski industry, has only a handful of resorts, many of which are run by the same company and each of which is effectively granted a local monopoly by the government land owner. Additionally, I sense that the typical North American skier is significantly more affluent than in Europe.
So North American resort managers are strongly incentivised to maximise short term revenues, and the competitive landscape ensures that jacking up prices achieves those objectives. Result: high prices.
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You know it makes sense.
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@terrygasson, Whistler is about CAD$700 for 6 days but you do get 2 of those $ to the pound at the mo so cheap in comparison. I always wonder why locals on a season pass get the skiing for the whole season for not much more than we pay for a week. Monopolies are a pain.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I thought the main reason for the big ticket prices in the US was simply a reflection of targeted marketing for the typical US resort customer. That is 1) its expensive so it must be awesomely better than somewhere cheaper, 2) its expensive so I can bling that awesome fact in front of my friends, 3) yeah, but I am so clever I got an awesome deal that means I pay a lot (but actually not 'that' much) less than the ticket price. Resorts also know how to price the cheapskate locals differently than the non-local cash cows who will probably only stay for a long weekend anyway because of the shortage of annual paid leave in the US. I don't know how the numbers pan-out but I do get the impression that skiing in the US (locals excepted) is still somewhat seen as an expensive and elitist sport for the rich and priced accordingly; just take a look at 'powder' magazine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Jake43, 3 weeks in fact! And if you buy it at the earlybird rate 
Guess it is because it provides the resort with a reliable base of fixed income. Whistler probably relied heavily on that when the cdn dollar was strong and the destination visitor numbers way down.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Additionally, the Alps has intense competition between neighbouring ski areas - a town like Bourg St Maurice in France has multiple world-class resorts within 90 minutes travel. |
A lot of them are run by the same company though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you can find a flight competitive with transatlantic costs you could try Japan. Huge amounts of snow and gorgeous powder. Niseko had a another half meter dump last night. Week pass at £220 (other Japanese resorts tend to be much cheaper still while many hotels do discounts). Lifts tend to be a bit old but is a heated backside really that important?
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@Themasterpiece, don't know whether the Are situation is wind related or a lack of snow. Snow depth seems to be very similar to the previous two seasons. None of the larger Hogzon lifts have been working (presumably due to wind) and the Hogzon surface lifts don't start until the beginning of February according to the Are website - this takes 10 or so slopes out of action. I recall that Hemsedal doesn't open all of its slopes until February so maybe it's the same with Are?
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Capitalism may be an alien concept in UK where everything is expected to be provided by government who have an infinite source of borrowed funds. I guess that ticket revenues barely meet capital & running costs. Lifts were an amenity to promote real estate sales in the purpose built resorts. The ticket window price is a model geared to extract money from short term visitors. 2-3 day ski holidays are common as Americans not in government or public sector don't get holidays by right. Unfortunately multi-day lift tickets are often no cheaper than the day rate. If you are fortunate enough to be able to ski for 10 days or more, season tickets can be great value. Do your homework factoring in the lift pass cost and getting a deal, discount tickets are often available tied to purchasing accommodation. You may find discounts coupons in gas stations & stores for small 'locals resorts' .
The lifts may be dated but the resorts mostly have good wash rooms on the ground floor, friendly locals, trees & real snow.
It may be a different model in Europe, I gather lift systems are often locally financed and subsidized to enable businesses to charge premium prices. So air travel excluded it is often a similar cost holiday either side of the pond. It is a privilege to ski but no longer exclusive to the wealthy elite.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Lechbob, I have yet to ski in North America and while I can fully appreciate the benefits of friendly locals and plenty of snow, not that I've ever had a problem with unfriendly locals in Europe, I'm perplexed with two of the other benefits you mention:
Trees..... What's so great about having trees? Something to run into and something to provide tree wells. Otherwise, what's the advantage? A bit more visual contrast on a duff weather day but that's about it. Certainly from the publicity photos I have seen of the Rockies the scenery doesn't hold a candle to the Alps.
'Good wash rooms on the ground floor' - What do you want to wash? On the ground floor of what? Europe is hardly short of loos if that's what you are after.
As for European lift systems subsidised so the restaurants can charge premium prices I'm not sure that is correct. Any evidence? In addition, how do you compare the McDonalds style cafeterias of the U.S. on the one hand with the charm and quality of Italian refugios?
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@foxtrotzulu, Skiing in between trees may not be your thing (read your foot note) but even at my age I find it fun, feel alive as you need to think quickly and use all your skill as a change from cruising down pistes.
The scenery is varied and can be magnificent, certainly better than the moonscape at Tignes etc.. In my subjective opinion the Dolomites are the most beautiful but I love the difference.
Wash room = toilet. Repeatedly negotiating slippy stairs in ski boots is hazardous for incontinent geriatrics.
How can you comment if you haven't been, the Italian refugios are indeed magnificent and also don't compare to some of the rip off self service restaurants in the alps. Choice is available in the states, facilities are often provided for those bringing their own food, some of these large lodges are impressive. If you have money there are exclusive eateries. In town you can get a good steak.
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FAQ
Its what else you get though besides an uplift 
...but I also hiked flute (@ whistler) this morning and skied lovely fluffy pow, having skied pow all day yesterday, so not sure I care 