 Poster: A snowHead
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Much is said about the cost of lunch on the mountain etc in France but today I noticed something.
We stopped for lunch at the parentheses in Les Arcs 1800 and had the plat du jour. It was an excellent fish pie and cost the extravagant price of 12 euro (may have been 12.5) in British money that is £9. My local pub in UK sells a very poor fish pie that is so poor I will not have another for £13. And that extra 30% includes ordering at the bar rather than having your order taken by a very attentive waitress.
Perhaps I should stop eating in British pubs
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I can eat well on our slopes for £14. Plat du jour, wine and coffee. at the fast food end today we had 4 generous barquettes of chips, a big can of coke and a kir (white wine and cassis) for £14. On a terrace in the sun.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I still haven't forgiven Les Arcs for charging me €10 for half a small jacket potato 
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When people complain about high prices in "France" they often mean "the three big ski factory areas I've visited without any local advice about good places to eat without being ripped off
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's a bit like the UK you can pay high prices for crap and get good food for a reasonable price.
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Trouble is @pam w, most of us probably just stop at a place "just down there as I'm hungry". And either have very little local knowledge or want to ski around an area rather than plan their day around somewhere that is reasonably priced to eat.
It is also now more economical to eat anywhere in Europe than in recent years due to the exchange rate.
This week my lunch has cost me between €7.50 and €10 for food - no plat du jour, practically anything from the menu - add on €3.50-4 for a large beer, bit less if I've had a coke.
Comparing to the local pub is not realistic, as you generally have more choice to go elsewhere, can class eating out as a treat, or you are more likely to be able to eat at home. Eating in a ski area is more comparible to eating at a tourist honeypot/theme park or big city
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@boredsurfin, I feel your pain... Les Arcs is definitely the most expensive mountain I've been on so far!
Although the €18 burgers at BKM in 1800 is an EPIC!
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| Quote: |
Comparing to the local pub is not realistic, as you generally have more choice to go elsewhere, can class eating out as a treat, or you are more likely to be able to eat at home. Eating in a ski area is more comparible to eating at a tourist honeypot/theme park or big city
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Not sure I understand. There are lots more restaurants in Les Arcs than near where I live. Other example include 10 euro at Rocky Mountain for a descent burger in Arc 1600, almost every where at plat du jour costs about 12-14 euro. Though Les Arcs is probably one of the cheapest places to eat on the mountain, most places are not much more. Except of course Switzerland. In my limited experience Austria is about the same price as France and Italy a little cheaper. But with exception of Indian restaurants. the Uk is much more for poorer quality.
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Pretty sure it was BKM at Arc 1800 doing 4 pints and a pizza for €20 which i thought was a bit of a bargain! Home made baked in a pizza oven as well! On the other hand there was a pancake shop in L2A which done 4 pancakes and coffees for just shy of €50!!
Have found it's all about how willing you are to have a search around!
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I think Austria is cheaper than France or Italy for beers. Italy is cheapest for quality hot chocolate . pancakes are always a daft price in France. money for old rope. I often make them in my apartment. Once, with après ski teenagers I calculated I'd made 80 euros worth.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think you have to choose carefully....
The refuge in Orrelle 3v is 10x cheaper than in corcheval, yet we have found a new small refuge in corcheval ( yes I know I am spelling it wrong, I cant bebothered to check writing on a mobile ), an ex-cow milking shed was reasonable, made on site, I think a husband & wife ...but only 3 or 4 ttables inside.....benches outside.
Certainly Italian prices are better, even in Cortina....Goulash and apple strudle half that in France, plus cheaper coffee...and just as nice....
Picnics always help in nice weather and easier in a bagette.....IF you can find a nice bench or rock..
I like happy service, I find in general, brush stroking terms French speaking Swiss and Italians much more cheerfull, regardless of price...
All knocking English pubs into a cocked hat, even in summer....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Italy, well, Champoluc anyway is cheapest for Prosecco.
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| haigie wrote: |
@boredsurfin, I feel your pain... Les Arcs is definitely the most expensive mountain I've been on so far!
Although the €18 burgers at BKM in 1800 is an EPIC! |
??? For basic food, I have found LesArcs to be very good value 4€ for a large Parisienne sandwich or 9€ for a 40cm pizza
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You know it makes sense.
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johnE,
We were at Hintertux and Stubai Glaciers in November; and Val Thorens/3 Valleys a couple of weeks ago. In the first 2 places Spaghetti Bolognese was €8 on the mountain and a large beer €3.50. In the 3 Valleys Spaghetti was generally €15-18 and a large beer €7.
Similar differentials apply off the slopes, so, given that food and drink broadly costs the same in supermarkets in either country, why do the French apply such outrageous markups? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w, I made pancakes for Mat yesterday and when he finished I asked him for €20 
Happy Xmas to you, btw!
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Poster: A snowHead
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More on topic, I find that in France the plat du jour is usually excellent value, but spag bol, plates of chips, and various other 'cheap' options are often poor value. Bearing in mind that value for money doesn't necessarily mean cheap.
Various cultural factors at play too - beer is cheap in Austria, but wine is cheap in France.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| Similar differentials apply off the slopes, so, given that food and drink broadly costs the same in supermarkets in either country, why do the French apply such outrageous markups |
Was told by a restaurateur in France that it's cos Austria resorts are proper little towns that are open to tourists and locals all year round - as compared to French seasonal moon stations. So they have to make their money while they can.
However, he couldn't think of an answer when I asked 'That being the case, how come food and drink aren't Austria prices in Chamonix or Morzine?' 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Bergmeister, I didn't find these differences. In Les Arcs a plat du jour is typically 12-14 euro, in Soelden, the last Austrian resort I skied in, a similar meal was about the same price. I cannot recall beer prices since I am talking about eating out a lunch time.
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I never understand why anyone would pay a lot of money for spag bol. But also, remember there is a big difference in average prices between the handful of mega resorts and the hundreds of others. If I ran a restaurant in 3 valleys and Brits were willing to pay 18 euros for a spag bol I'd happily take their money.
When people moan about prices in "France" they usually mean in the big TO resorts. The biggest rip off I've experienced was in Val Thorens.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Average prices for cheaper main courses at self service mountain restaurants:
Ski Welt, Austria (Feb 2014) - about 8-9 euros
Alpe d'Huez, France (Jan 2015) - about 10-11 euros
Les 2 Alpes, France (Jan 2015) - about 12-14 euros
Austria definitely cheaper based on those prices. I would however suggest (and might get some stick for this!) that the food was generally better in France. Cheaper food but not as good food in Austria, based on where we went. But the difference between the two French resorts shows the variety in prices between resorts. There were notable rip-offs in both Alpe d'Huez and Les 2 Alpes though - perhaps more consistency in Austria.
The closest UK comparison would probably be one of the cafes / restaurants in the Scottish ski areas. Generally cheaper than Austria, but the quality another notch down on Austria.
As @johnE, says, France does have a reputation for expensive mountain restaurants. And there's truth in that, but in the grand scheme of things (unless you really like fine dining, in which case I've little experience) it doesn't make much difference to your budgetary requirements over a week's skiing, even in mega resorts. Especially if you're happy to peruse the menu of a couple of restaurants before choosing one.
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So, what's the advice in VT? Where to eat and where not to eat??
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I don't keep a record of how much I spend, but my general impression is that there's not a great difference between comparable places in comparable resorts in France, Italy and Austria (my only Swiss skiing in recent years has been Zermatt, so perhaps not typical of that country). I have a general impression that I get better value for money in Italy, but that might be because I prefer Italian cuisine. I'm not a big drinker, so the cost of beer is not especially relevant for me. In the grand scheme of things, is the perceived difference in eating out and apres ski drinks so large that determines what country people prefer to ski in?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| In the grand scheme of things, is the perceived difference in eating out and apres ski drinks so large that determines what country people prefer to ski in? |
I'd normally discount most horror stories and just ski wherever I want to ski and eat and drink where I want to eat... however, people keep sucking their teeth and wincing when I say "Val Thorens" 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's a game of in-prefect information that profits from the punter who is visiting for the week who doesn't notice the odd 5 or 10 Euro a day on a 1000 euro (1000 pound?) holiday.
I think there's potential for a Daily Mail style headline in taking the difference between what you pay by choosing badly in a mega resort versus eating where @pam w eats, multiplying in by 24 (family of 4 for a week), and converting that back into a commodity that resonates with your target audience.
What this really needs though is better info in the hands of the punter -- it may take time or never filter through to overall resort ratings for quality and value of mountain restaurants that would drive the market -- but that local knowledge in the form of a handy crowd-sourced per resort list of mountain eateries with typical prices, useful facts (is the toilet free?), and reviews would be a start.
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| johnE wrote: |
Much is said about the cost of lunch on the mountain etc in France but today I noticed something.
We stopped for lunch at the parentheses in Les Arcs 1800 and had the plat du jour. It was an excellent fish pie and cost the extravagant price of 12 euro (may have been 12.5) in British money that is £9. My local pub in UK sells a very poor fish pie that is so poor I will not have another for £13. And that extra 30% includes ordering at the bar rather than having your order taken by a very attentive waitress.
Perhaps I should stop eating in British pubs |
probably because your pub serves a bought in pie and marks it up whilst paying the 'chef' minimum wage to press a few buttons on microwave, the money saved by 'producing' food in this method would cover then increase the minimal margins made on beer and other beverages. But you lose out ALOT on freshness and quality... pretty important things to an actual trained chef who takes pride in his/her work/craft
On the mountain food is basic, yes, but also easier to cook because it's so simple meaning you can knock up bulk batched stuff as well as a few nicer things, but most of the fish/meat will be bought in frozen and cooked acorddingly - not just ordering in an actual fish pie portion. Making a fish pie sauce and a few mashed potatos is one of the easiest things you can do in a kitchen... whack it all together and bung it under the grill/salamander... delish. But making sauces and other basic cheffing skills are lacking in the UK, mostly because general eatery type pubs don't want to pay the wages of a fully trained chef with a repertoire of skills to draw on
Also, French people (generally speaking here) are happier to work in the service industry than in the UK, so try a little harder to impress. But in saying that, one of the worst meals I ever had was in a Gite d'Etape (the village had a road) and the Patron acted like we were doing him a favour in eating his boiled onions with boiled rice and curry flavoured water with what looked like chicken - but, he was quite obviously out of his depth and clearly didn't understand 'foreign food' like curry - which would have been ok if I didn't have an 8 hour hike to get to the next hut the following day - just grin and bare it 
When we ran the chalet most of our guests where shocked at the fact that me and Mr Mountain Addiction ordered in whole sides of half butchered salmon, we have enough skill between us to finish butchering and pin boning etc to portion to a really good size at only about 12 euros a kilo as opposed to the 20 euros a kilo they charge in shops for the fully finished article - given that chicken is 11 euros a kilo the price of butchering your own salmon became something you could afford to do. and something that the guests really enjoyed. I'm sure you'd be hard pushed to find a Salmon portion the size we used to do in another chalet based on this fact... those skills are something that need paying for.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 26-12-15 17:22; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@letsgetpiste, there are more expensive options in 3V than in VT, depends where you eat. Food in Chalet Marine is gorgeous but expensive, but the 'self' downstairs is good value. Knife and Fork paninis are awful and expensive for a panini, but the noodle bar round the corner is good value, as is the pizza place.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Had lunch in Chalet Des 2 Lacs in VT with Master A today. Really nice omlette, Pizza that little one raved about, a few fries and a couple of beers. All for €54 ie about £20 each with an outside table, wonderful views. I really struggle to call that expensive or poor quality.
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| alti - dude wrote: |
| All for €54 ie about £20 |
I've only been away for a month but the exchange rate seems to have changed a lot since I was in the UK!
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You know it makes sense.
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Mountain food need not be basic nor expensive...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@under a new name, +1
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Poster: A snowHead
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@rob@rar, perhaps all of the mountain air and expensive poor quality mountain food has affected your ability to read a whole sentence !!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@alti - dude, doh! Apologies, that will teach me to speed read.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@alti - dude, for what it's worth (probably not much at all) I much prefer Chalet Marine to Chalet 2 Lacs.
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@rob@rar, agree re Chalet de la Marine . . . Wouldn't qualify under the cheap category but certainly qualifies under the very good quality heading - team are always so welcoming.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rob@rar, +1. 2 Lacs went downhill after their last change of owner.
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@Whitegold, I realise that the Daily Mail is not famous for accuracy but I really found this table funny. For some reason they assume that you will buy a lift pass for 6 days, yet over that 6 days you will drink only one large cup of coffee and eat lunch only once etc.
Stupid and yet somehow they are allowed to publish this
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@johnE, when we went skiing with kids we certainly didn't buy lunch out during the week. Or have many drinks on the slopes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@johnE, I didn't think that was what they were suggesting.
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If you have a look at the article on line you will see that they rank resorts based on that final Total row. If a resort A charges £25.19 more for a lift pass than resort B then they will be ranked below B even if resort B gave away all food and drink free. They have added up two things that should not have been added, a weekly price for some things (a rate) and a one off price for others and these have completly diffent price ranges.
Perhaps they should have used the cost of a lift pass per 5 minutes and the cost of a coffee that may take 5 minutes to drink. At which point their rankings change completely.
Their final total is completely meaningless. Yet that is what they have based their rankings on. All it really shows is that the journalist who compiled the article is innumerate. In the UK we get upset by people using poor grammar or spelin but allow facts and numbers to go unchallenged. It really annoys me.
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