Altitude sickness

A snowHead

Morning all!

Off to Tignes on Saturday, which is great. However, it's not quite so great for my 20-year old son who always seems to suffer from altitude sickness.

Now whether it is truly altitude sickness or something else, I'm not 100% sure as he always seems to get this even in resorts which aren't exactly on top of the world such as St Anton (1300m) and even Morzine (1000m).

He feels slightly sick most of the time and completely loses his appetite - I guess those are the major symptoms, some headaches too. He's not a big alcohol drinker (he didn't drink at all last time) so it isn't a permanent hangover Happy

Has anybody else had experience of this or got any tips on how to deal with it?

Thanks

A snowHead

Blimey! I suffer mildly in areas over 2500m. VT and Cervinia spring to mind. It only lasts a couple of days max as I acclimatise.

I've not known of anyone that can't shake the symptoms off after a few days.

I put it down to the fact that I live at sea level, literally.

Poor lad. Confused

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Lots of water and first few days stay to lowet slopes. Alcohol is bad at altitude, so better to avoid it. Had the same while in Tignes. Takes time and oits is imporyant to stay hydrated

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@ecsleath, it could be the flights.
Does your lad suffer a little after your trip when back at home?

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@ecsleath, Does he really like skiing/boarding? Stress can produce those symptoms too! Have you been to such heights in the summer months? Its also a good point about travel disrupting some peoples state of health, as can a change of water or diet.

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@flangesax, I can't remember, I don't think so. We've not had any problems when we've flown to hot places in the summer.

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@ecsleath, 1000m does seem pretty low to be suffering serious effects. I fortunately don't suffer, and can ski tour above 3500m, but my Sister has to get below 3000m as soon as possible, where she loses all the effects immediately.

Does he have any health issues, such as low blood pressure? Is he still growing? I used to suffer in my teens from feeling faint as my physiology struggled to keep up with my growth rate.

After all it is free

The 'altitude/cabin pressure' during flight is normally around 2500 meters.
I'm not sure how long it takes to affect someone so maybe the flights don't create an upset.
When we moved here in 2006 my wife was mildly affected by what we thought was altitude sickness. It lasted about 2 weeks and we are only at 800m.

@CaravanSkier, oh yeah, he loves it (and is really good at it too, damn him!)

@PowderAdict, no he's a very healthy 20-year old, stopped growing about 4 or 5 years ago.

Checking around the internet, I see there have been studies that it may be related to inflammation (where exactly, I don't know) and that pre-emptive doses of ibuprofen may help.

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I have suffered in past especially at val d'isere. Lots of water and I found travel sickness pills helped a lot but you should check with pharmacist or doctor on this first. It got really bad when we went from low heights on a couple of lifts straight to the top so maybe watch that and take heights in stages may help.
Good luck!

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Altitude sickness at 1000m? I seriously doubt it.

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I get AS start at about 1400M, it could happen at lower altitudes.
He needs to rest and take it easy for the first few days, more breaks, not so high, practice technique etc.
later on he'll be able to go higher & faster.

"He feels slightly sick most of the time and completely loses his appetite"

This could just be nerves though, I know people who get like this at the start of every ski holiday. I've had terrible symptoms in the past at altitude (hyperventilation, short temperedness, extreme thirst) but these were all above 2000m, lasted less than an hour and have stopped completely now I've quit smoking. If this is happening at 1000m and it isn't nerves then he should probably get proper medical advice.

You know it makes sense.

I sometimes get symptoms resembling the early stages of altitude sickness either in resort or during/after a flight, even one just a couple of hours long. It is definitely not true altitude sickness, which is quite well characterised and very dangerous if untreated. But I get severe headaches, nausea and lose my appetite. Fortunately, for me the symptoms usually within a day.

What I've found that prevents it, nearly always, is to really stay hydrated. I need to drink lots of water (1.5 - 2 litres, morning and afternoon, even if I don't feel thirsty). If I do this, I'm usually ok, even in relatively high resorts (e.g. Reberty at ~2000m). I try to avoid going really high (3000m+) quickly, too, and don't drink on the first night.

If I'm really tired before I go, though, I can still suffer. If that happens, paracetamol, ibuprofen, more water and a very early night are the only things that fix it.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

you could get the docs to prescribe diamox. this is used a lot by people trekking at high altitude and helps speed up acclimatisation. it can be taken preemptively 3 days before travel and while you are there. i took it when i started to suffer at altitude and it did help, i didn't however take it preemptively.

please note i am not a doctor and am speaking purely from my own experience, seek medical advice if this is something you consider.

A snowHead

My son suffers from similar symptoms, and also gets dizzy when going in elevators. Vertigo is fairly common and is not dangerous and there are no known cures for it. However it could be connected to a middle ear problem. Something as simple as a wax build up can be the cause. It is worth having a check up with your gp. My son actually had an MRI and nothing obvious was observed .
In the end the doctor suggested that he use a nasal spray whenever in a potential problematic situation. So using in before during and after a plane flight, as well as before getting on a gondola or ski lift. The nasal spray should keep the necessary cavities open and take pressure of any bits that irritate the middle ear and cause the vertigo.
It has helped him so far , but we have not been skiing since this was discovered in the summer .

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

That low it's very unlikely it's AMS

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Apparently Viagra helps. To save embarassment ask the doctor to prescribe it under the technical name, Micoxafloppin.

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@cameronphillips2000, back in a minute wink

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To the best of my knowledge altitude sickness at 1000m is pretty much unheard of (that's like getting AS at the summit of Snowden!). I suffer very badly from AS despite having spent many years climbing in the Alps, Andes and Himalayas. I took part in a study at Glasgow University about 20 years ago where they told me that my sea level performance was up in the top percentage of the study but I was absolutely their very worst performer at simulated altitude. They advised me to never go higher than 6500m.

If I go straight up to 2000m and stay there (eg the campsite at Arolla) then I will have serious headache and nausea for the first 24-36 hours. It takes me a good two to three weeks to acclimatise to around 4000m. When climbing in the greater ranges I generally make my own way up to base camp at my own pace rather than trying to keep up with my mates and the porters.

To be honest if he's suffering from nausea and headaches at 1000m I'd be more suspicious of him having a reaction to the change in environment. Many people (again myself included) can suffer from such a change; I typically get a bad stomach for about a week just from travelling from one end of the UK to the other and I've been doing just that (and living with it) for the last 30 odd years. My doctor has suggested that it is likely just a sensitive reaction to the varying mineral content of the local water.

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It is unusual.

Go see a doc.

After all it is free

Sounds like really bad dehydration - not just about water though.

If this happens to me, dizzy, headaches, grumpy etc yes I drink more water - but not all in one go, you wouldn't eat your days food all in one sitting, so make sure he drinks water sensibly throughout the day, AND puts extra salt on his food AND an extra sugar in his tea/coffee/hot chocolate.

When you're dehydrated you lose essential salts, and sugars. maybe taking multi vitamins wouldn't go a miss either. If he doesn't like putting extra salt and sugar in his food you can get rehydration pouches which you take once a day and added to a glass of water - but i've never liked the taste of them, even the flavoured ones - so i've only ever used them as a last resort - but they're very effective.

medically speaking serious high altitude effects are usually categorised above 2400m for those living around sea level or just above, but shortness of breath and a speeding heart are 'normal' below this altitude and should be acknowledged if experienced, and exertion should be restricted until it eases.

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If it's altitude then either Viagra or ibuprofen may help. They both open the blood vessels, increasing blood (and so oxygen) flow to the brain (and in one case other places).

It IS very low for altitude sickness though so for dehydration get him a camel pack and in to the habit of giving the tube a suck every time his on a chair.

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cameronphillips2000,
Very Happy

I'm surprised no one else has cottoned on yet!

I'm still chuckling, in true schoolboy style...

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As already said I doubt it's altitude sickness. I generally get a bit of an odd nights sleep for the first couple of nights when I sleep over 200/2100m so only Tignes, Cervinia Val T etc, and then things improve.

I do recall reading that an aspirin a day for a month or so before you go is supposed to help, but I can't recall where I sap that, or confirm if it's true.

You know it makes sense.

There's a recent study about beetroot juice doing the job for altitude sickness. Might be worth a cheap go as a plan B?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Mountain Addiction,
+1
Due to a medical condition I'm particularly prone to dehydration and find that when I'm in the mountains or any height much above sea level I suffer and have to take special care of myself.

@Mountain Addiction, has got it right, besides what he says I also keep water in a glass or bowl on top the radiators in our room to try and keep the room humidity higher, which helps. For those days when I really suffer I take Dioralyte with me, which bring me back to "normal". They do taste foul but they keep me feeling ok. The strange thing with dehydration is that one of the worst things you can do when dehydrated is just drink water as it tends to go straight through you taking more essential salts with it on the way out.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Having climbed and trecked extensively at 6000m+ and also read about AMS I can assure you that hydration is fairly important. Try to avoid anything that might have a diuretic affect too like caffeinated drinks. As Richjp has put it your pee is a good indicator. Even at moderate altitudes it's fairly important as your normal respiratory cycle will cause you to lose more water than at sea level

There's plenty of research about this aspect of AMS

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17219784

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2923424/

http://www.highaltitudelife.com/dehydration.htm

For a more thorough understanding of the whole field could read this which is an excellent layman's book regarding mountain sickness

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=9781594851797&tag=amz07b-21

However as this thread is about the altitudes normally associated with ski resorts a lot of the above is directed at altitudes double and more than you will experience so much of this doesn't really apply or can be watered down (excuse the pun). Don't get alarmed by references to pulmonary orr cerebral oedema. Incidences of this in a ski resort are exceptionally rare.

Remember the affects of AMS are directly related to the air pressure which does not reduce in a linear manner as altitude increases

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You don't want to get dehydrated at altitude and you do need some extra fluids, however forcing fluids has not been shown to be beneficial and may be dangerous according to published guidelines.

http://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032%2810%2900114-6/fulltext

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As I posted in the other similar thread to this, unless someone has some very very unusual (or non-human) blood biochemistry the oxygen saturation curve of haemoglobin doesn't budge until above 2000m (and up to 2300m its only a few % deviation), so altitude sickness below that level is an unlikely explanation physiologically. Dehydration or hangover is my preferred guess! (with the caveat that, as T-Bar points out, all things in moderation http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2564296/ for one of the seminal papers on the negative effects of over-hydration!)

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Most people are fine below about 2400m, but there is a small section of the population who are actually susceptible to it from about 1500m or even lower. Sometimes due to an underlying medical condition, but usually it's just genetic. Everyone seems to have their own threshold altitude, and for some it really is that low. if it was one of mine suffering at 1000m I'd be off to see a cardiologist.

One way to know for sure is try some Diamox. If it helps, then yep, that's it. Makes beer taste flat though, so he may not be happy! Laughing

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Try some diamox which are altitude sickness tablets they should do the job! although i'd still talk to a doctor as 1000m altitude sickness is pretty unheard of!
Hope it goes ok!

After all it is free

@snowdave, what is the mechanism by which one's body adjusts to altitude? Even at altitudes well below 2300m it takes a few days - a few weeks is better. And if skiing really high (3500m) even 10 - 15 minutes rest at the top, before starting, seems to make a difference.

Initially you breath faster and your heart beats faster. This causes you to lose CO2 from your blood, which makes it a bit more alkaline, together causing your haemoglobin to better bind oxygen even at lower pressures. This process starts around 1500m although IIRC it's minimal until 2000m. Diamox works by fooling the body into doing the same thing, accelerating heart and respiration rates even at sea level, causing you to acclimatise without ascent. In the process it screws up other areas of CO2 metabolism such that fizzy drinks taste bad.

Over time (weeks), these effects also trigger the production of more red blood cells which cause long term acclimatisation and actually enable your body to transport more oxygen.

15mins rest at 3500m might help slightly by a few minutes hyperventilation with an elevate heart rate, but I'd expect it to be a minimal effect. Certainly when I'm running long distances (20-40 miles) at those altitudes, rest has less than its 'normal' effect than at sea level. However, once you get above 2000m everyone behaves differently. I (like many people) can ascend from sea level to 3000m, then run to 4500m and back down again without any ill effect. Other people have died from the same thing.

To be fair, it was 20 years since I studied biochemistry and physiology and anyone worried about their health in respect of altitude should see a doctor rather than the Internet. A doctor I know very well has a mug that states "please do not confuse your google search with my medical degree"!

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Altitude sickness

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