 Poster: A snowHead
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@Mountain Addiction, maybe Kooky was joking, and maybe you didn't get it. I've toured with DB too and he is fit, you should see the size of his pack. He likes to load up with lots of toiletries. 😉
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Mountain Addiction, are you related to Millom???
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i am in SkiWelt this week...and there are a lot of tourers here.
The problem is:
1. the slopes are really narrow...sometimes a couple of meters wide
2. there is really NO snow outside the slopes
3. the snow conditions are terrible
so the tourers are not 1m outside the slopes but in the slopes
maybe thats not a really problem for me (usually i go slow with this conditions), but there are lot of families, children, and people who are struggling to make a few turns because of these conditions and because they are learning how to skiing
It is really easy for an accident to happen.
And if i was a tourer, i will probably stay away from these slopes. I dont want a chlid or an adult to come over me...i really wonder if these people are not afraid for themselves...
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I've often wondered why a tourer would choose to go up a piste, I actively try & avoid piste as much as possible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Cptsideways wrote: |
| I've often wondered why a tourer would choose to go up a piste, I actively try & avoid piste as much as possible. |
Either because of the lack of snow/ropey conditions off piste or because you are on your own… you could choose to either not go out that day or to use the lifts instead… or you could decide you need the practice or you want to earn your tartiflette and booze that evening (ahem, sorry, I mean "earn your turns" obviously).
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@Mountain Addiction, you asked who the quote was from, so I told you. If you want to come across a total wazzock, then carry on waving your feckin willy, because you are quite literally being a total prick here. There feel suitably insulted? - good because that was my intention.
Other people do not necessarily know how the "rents" are paid, so I explained it as it operates in the ski Amadé region because I do know what I'm talking about having been based here for over 20 years, worked with ski schools here and I do actually speak not only German fluently, I can also understand the local dialect about 75% of the time. If I was preaching to the converted, mea culpa, but so far you've stated you do not tour, you do not understand the mentality of walking up slopes served by perfectly good lifts and that you do not speak or read German, sobasically you don't know what you are talking about. So why not be a good little internet troll and feck off.
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Love it when Sue kicks butt...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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.....
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 21-12-15 9:47; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Samerberg Sue,stop mincing your words love!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| turms wrote: |
| I dont want a chlid or an adult to come over me... |
You obviously prefer to take the more 'active' role 
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| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| ..... Being that I spend the ENTIRE summer hiking up mountains with weighted back-packs and planning my routes..... |
Wow...that is so amazing. I would love to spend an ENTIRE summer hiking up mountains and planning routes. Unfortunately I have to eat and sleep and have the odd shit. Maybe if you took a break for a shit you wouldn't fill up so much and you wouldn't spill it on the internet?
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You know it makes sense.
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@Gaza,
I'm sure you will be made to suffer for that in your old age 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| turms wrote: |
| I dont want a chlid or an adult to come over me... |
You obviously prefer to take the more 'active' role |
Life can be messy sometimes. 😉
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| But this doesn't answer why the article chooses to use a picture of just 2 people touring. |
Can't you work it out? If they had real proof of thousands of ski tourers ascending a piste I'd assume they would have used that.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 20-12-15 7:37; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Kooky wrote: |
| @Mountain Addiction@DB, thanks for the links, looks like Rauris have got a great solution, maybe the other resorts can follow their lead? |
I hope so, there has to be another solution than just calling us ski tourers all lazy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Kelskii wrote: |
| @Mountain Addiction, maybe Kooky was joking, and maybe you didn't get it. I've toured with DB too and he is fit, you should see the size of his pack. He likes to load up with lots of toiletries. 😉 |
Public Service Announcement - Just to be clear here, Kelski is talking about my rucksack not my codpiece.
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| miranda wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What's wrong with protecting their earnings? |
But as has been said a few times already… the vast majority of people skinning up a piste are locals with season passes. |
The vast majority I've seen have been military. Can't say I see any problem with it. They are hardly moving so fast they are a problem to avoid.
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| miranda wrote: |
| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| Kooky wrote: |
@Mountain Addiction, I have toured with DB, let me tell you the man is fit  |
I really wish people would grasp the concept that i wasn't talking about physicality, I was talking about the theory and technicality!!  Why can't this point be gotten? |
I think you need to rein in the shocked and rolling eye faces.
You said this:
| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| I've never toured, but I like the idea of it one day. |
| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| you don't need to go hacking up a piste before the resort is open - surely it's just a lazy mans way of getting fit |
What sort of reaction did you expect from people who skin up the sides of pistes? Sometimes one or two posters don't get what you're saying and you can feel 90% confident it's a result of their lack of understanding, intelligence or open-mindedness… sometimes, not least when it's a number of people feeling a particular way, you just have to acknowledge that the failure lies with your style of expression and apologise for that... |
Again, skillfully editing the reference to the theory and technical side of things... I'll stop using the rolly eyes and shocked faces when people stop taking what I said out of context, but hey, if you want to keep taking it out of context then that is up to you, it doesn't mean that's what I was saying. Your choice to remove context in no way shows my lack of understanding, all it is showing is your manipulation of a discussion and bending it to your will.
When DB explained about the resort cutting through a pre-designated touring route, i did say i understood his POV with regards to that, but his failure to say it earlier isn't due to a lack of understanding on my part. And if people again choose to ignore my acknowledgement of that then again, that is up to you, but doesn't mean I didn't understand him.
There are similarities between hiking and touring. So I do understand a lot more than one may think just from that similarity alone. It would be lazy mans hiking up a road, or up a trail that was designed for anything but Hiking. I hate hiking up farm tracks because it's not what one might consider what the mountains are truely about - one should seek out the more remote trails away from the people and machines to get the proper essence of the mountains.
i've always found you get more fit hiking up the steeper stuff, so IME of mountain training i don't see the point of taking the easier access to the mountain to get fit. This in no way means i'm talking about the act of Hiking or Touring but infact the choice of access and technique. Get the stamina and fitness up by choosing the more difficult access and remote routes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| ..... Being that I spend the ENTIRE summer hiking up mountains with weighted back-packs and planning my routes..... |
Wow...that is so amazing. I would love to spend an ENTIRE summer hiking up mountains and planning routes. Unfortunately I have to eat and sleep and have the odd shit. |
Lazy begger
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| @Mountain Addiction, you asked who the quote was from, so I told you. If you want to come across a total wazzock, then carry on waving your feckin willy, because you are quite literally being a total prick here. There feel suitably insulted? - good because that was my intention. |
No - and I asked several questions about who wrote the article, I wasn't talking about the quote from the big cheese - don't know why you're getting so tetchy about it. I only asked why the article chooses to use a picture of just 2 people touring.
| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| Other people do not necessarily know how the "rents" are paid, so I explained it as it operates in the ski Amadé region because I do know what I'm talking about having been based here for over 20 years, worked with ski schools here and I do actually speak not only German fluently, I can also understand the local dialect about 75% of the time. If I was preaching to the converted, mea culpa, but so far you've stated you do not tour, you do not understand the mentality of walking up slopes served by perfectly good lifts and that you do not speak or read German, sobasically you don't know what you are talking about. So why not be a good little internet troll and feck off. |
All I asked was why you directed the comment about divvying monies directly at me - if you were aiming it at the thread you could have just said that, but instead starting jumping up and down and getting excited, waving your willy around about how much you know about everything about ski resorts, touring and german - I only asked why you'd directed the original comment at me, as shown by you putting my username in bold at the start of your post.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 20-12-15 10:20; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thank you for praising my editing skills but it really didn't take much effort to pull out the line that was clearly pissing people off.
If the choice is getting access to the mountain via a piste or a farm track, or not accessing the mountain at all, which is the lazier option?
What are the mountains "truley" about anyway? Would be good to know so I can inform the people who've lived here their whole lives how and why they're getting it wrong. 
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| miranda wrote: |
| Thank you for praising my editing skills but it really didn't take much effort to pull out the line that was clearly pissing people off. |
Half on one line
| miranda wrote: |
| If the choice is getting access to the mountain via a piste or a farm track, or not accessing the mountain at all, which is the lazier option? |
Not finding an alternative - there are always access points.
| miranda wrote: |
| What are the mountains "truley" about anyway? Would be good to know so I can inform the people who've lived here their whole lives how and why they're getting it wrong. |
Why do we all love the mountains? it's a sense of something primal, something totally remote and uninhabited, something wild that answers to no one and cannot be tamed. Sometimes one can't always put a finger on it, but they're a challenge to pit yourself against and overcome.
How can all these things be if one goes for the easy route, goes for the crowded route, goes for the route that doesn't push them to the limit?
Whenever I'm out on the mountains, hiking, I get annoyed if I see another person - not because they shouldn't be there, but because it means I'm not remote enough so I push myself further, to find more remoteness, to find more out about myself, the mountain and the area. It also means I'm not the only one being challenged in this way on this day.
I dunno, maybe i'm being too spiritual about it or something - But either way, the Mountains always represent insurmountability, and I want to challenge it where other people aren't
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mountain Addiction - Well then I've very confused by the fact that you use mechanical lifts and pistes?!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mountain Addiction,
The pistes are what we sometimes use to get ourselves fit for the routes we really like doing. Most ski tourers hate skinning up the side of a piste.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| miranda wrote: |
| Mountain Addiction - Well then I've very confused by the fact that you use mechanical lifts and pistes?! |
Given if I had enough time, but due to work commitments I don't, then I would be off in the remote parts. In the meantime I ski where I can find the least people. I don't like machines and crowds on the mountain. I don't ski at peak times because of the crowds - not my thing.
If i didn't have to work and money was no object I'd be out in the remote places as often as possible.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DB wrote: |
| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| Kooky wrote: |
@Mountain Addiction, I have toured with DB, let me tell you the man is fit
@DB, thanks for the links, looks like Rauris have got a great solution, maybe the other resorts can follow their lead? |
I really wish people would grasp the concept that i wasn't talking about physicality, I was talking about the theory and technicality!! Why can't this point be gotten? |
Yes we have. OK Einstein how do you plan a ski tour in times like these? (ie. not enough snow base away from the pistes) |
Can't you do a different activity until there is enough? I'm just asking, don't go jumping up and down saying I said you shouldn't be doing it... it's just a question. |
First I mentioned new pistes through existing touring routes more than once.
Second yes you can train another way and that's what I tend to do (cross trainer with slope increase function and heart rate monitor plus mountain walking) and it helps but nothing beats ski touring to improve your ski touring fitness.
I imagine many locals have decided against using good alpine gear on crappy pistes and are reaching for their ski touring gear and skinning up the pistes. The lift company would rather that they bought lift tickets and so is using the safety issue as a straw man argument to stop them ski touring and get them to buy lift tickets. Yes OK ski tourers are being cheeky using snow prepared by others to train on but you can't expect them to buy full price alpine tickets. At least the people with season passes should be able to skin up the piste providing they use at least one lift so that the ski resort gets credit for them using the piste. IMHO marginal conditions at one point in the season should also not be used as grounds to enforce a ski touring ban for the entire season. There are a lot of ski tourers about and the resorts talking their ball away could hit their business. |
I can understand how a full season would annoy you. And in some instances it doesn seem a little excessive perhaps. I can understand them wanting to protect their revenue streams though, and sometimes safety can be an issue, straw man or not. It could be real issue if numbers continue to increase in the way they have, that can be said for any sport, like the crowds of people attempting everest every year has lead to discussions about how unsafe it is becoming and limited number of permits may be issued in the future. Crowd control is an issue in everything. Also, in saying that I do believe resorts are getting too crowded as well, even with piste skiiers, and the snow is so poor in some parts of the Alps I've heard discussions amongst my friends here that in resorts seasonaires may be stopped from skiing over the next couple of weeks, and in some cases some resorts are considering not selling season passes in the short term.
So, we look at these instances of restricted use, even from people paying for passes AND using the lifts to get the click throughs it's hardly like tourers are being targetted alone.
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Right, so you have your own valid reasons for using lifts + pistes and tourers have their equally valid reasons for using pistes… I really don't understand why you dug yourself into this "lazy man" argument
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| miranda wrote: |
| Right, so you have your own valid reasons for using lifts + pistes and tourers have their equally valid reasons for using pistes… I really don't understand why you dug yourself into this "lazy man" argument |
What... that makes no sense. I said about the technical and theory said of it, not about the fitness side of it.... you're actively choosing to avoid that.
I'm clicking through every time I ski, and i'm heading in the direction of travel the piste was designed for. If you came to me with the arguement that I was a Mountain Biker being stopped from riding down a path on a mountain that was specifically designed for hiking UP the mountain then perhaps that would be a comparative, but using the resort as it was designed is not comparative.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Mountain Addiction,
Most of the mountains (probably all) that now have ski resorts on them had walking routes (summer and winter) back before the first lifts were ever built. If the pistes are so constructed that I can't get to the top of the mountain on Skins or snowshoes without crossing a piste (albeit at the point where the walking route crosses it) then I don't believe it is correct for them to stop me. If they are considered about safety at this point it is they that should modify things to make it safer as the routes with public right of way were there first. If Austria had the equivalent of the Ramblers association these lift Company boses would be strung up by now ;o)
We mountain walkers / ski tourers haven't stopped the resorts extending their pistes over "our" routes or stopped them from making money in return we hope they continue to cut us a little slack when snow levels are low.
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| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| miranda wrote: |
| Right, so you have your own valid reasons for using lifts + pistes and tourers have their equally valid reasons for using pistes… I really don't understand why you dug yourself into this "lazy man" argument |
What... that makes no sense. I said about the technical and theory said of it, not about the fitness side of it.... you're actively choosing to avoid that.
I'm clicking through every time I ski, and i'm heading in the direction of travel the piste was designed for. If you came to me with the arguement that I was a Mountain Biker being stopped from riding down a path on a mountain that was specifically designed for hiking UP the mountain then perhaps that would be a comparative, but using the resort as it was designed is not comparative. |
If a mountainbike route runs over an existing walking route the walker has right of way. (I'm an alpine skier, ski tourer, mountainbiker and mountain walker with klettersteig / via ferrata)
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| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| miranda wrote: |
| Right, so you have your own valid reasons for using lifts + pistes and tourers have their equally valid reasons for using pistes… I really don't understand why you dug yourself into this "lazy man" argument |
What... that makes no sense. I said about the technical and theory said of it, not about the fitness side of it.... you're actively choosing to avoid that.
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It makes no difference whether you're talking about the "technical and theory" side of it, or the fitness side of it, or both… if you look at people's reasons for using the piste, it's got bug all to do with laziness of mind or body.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DB wrote: |
@Mountain Addiction,
Most of the mountains (probably all) that now have ski resorts on them had walking routes (summer and winter) back before the first lifts were ever built. If the pistes are so constructed that I can't get to the top of the mountain on Skins or snowshoes without crossing a piste (albeit at the point where the walking route crosses it) then I don't believe it is correct for them to stop me. If they are considered about safety at this point it is they that should modify things to make it safer as the routes with public right of way were there first. If Austria had the equivalent of the Ramblers association these lift Company boses would be strung up by now ;o)
We mountain walkers / ski tourers haven't stopped the resorts extending their pistes over "our" routes or stopped them from making money in return we hope they continue to cut us a little slack when snow levels are low. |
they could provide an alternative route for tourers where the piste has cut pre-exsisting access, but I also think, even if you have a season pass (as we've discussed, the resort needs the click thorughs) the resort should charge a touring pass even as a discounted add on to the Downill pass, and the funds stay in the resort that it is sold in. That would give resorts insentives to provide for everyone, tourers, downhill skiers AND secure revenue for the company/resorts and give some seperation to the 2, like they seperate X-country and downhill, two different types of what is essentially the same sport - 2 planks on feet.
IT seems odd that for such a massively expanding market they don't seem to be considering providing sensible services - surely it's a market they could in some way tap? Perhaps not in terms of groomed pistes etc, but in terms of inbounds terrain that is left ungroomed.
maybe you should start the Austrian Ski-Tourers Association.
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| miranda wrote: |
| Mountain Addiction wrote: |
| miranda wrote: |
| Right, so you have your own valid reasons for using lifts + pistes and tourers have their equally valid reasons for using pistes… I really don't understand why you dug yourself into this "lazy man" argument |
What... that makes no sense. I said about the technical and theory said of it, not about the fitness side of it.... you're actively choosing to avoid that.
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It makes no difference whether you're talking about the "technical and theory" side of it, or the fitness side of it, or both… if you look at people's reasons for using the piste, it's got bug all to do with laziness of mind or body. |
Sure,
I see loads of people 'take up touring' who are really unfit and know nothing about mountain safety, routes or technique, most of them have started because they think it's the 'in thing to do' and have seen others going up the piste, not all of them mind, Some of them knew the mountains etc before they started, but a lot of people start without a clue - like the man who walked up Ben Nevis in flip flops and had to be rescued by Mountain Rescue because he couldn't get back down and twisted his ankle, that is really poor behaviour without any respect for the mountain or the risks involved.
But, to go hacking around with no understanding of what is around you in a lot of what i've seen over my long years of living in the mountains IS that people start up the piste because it's the easy option - THAT is a lazy choice.
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FAQ
