 Poster: A snowHead
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I have a couple of friends who had bad ski experiences their first time in the mountain but we have persuaded them to go back for more (haha suckers!  ).
I am thinking it would be a good idea to at least warm them up with some private lessons on our local dry slope (at Sandown Park racecourse, 5 mins down the road). Followed of course by some more private lessons when we get out there but the dry slope thing is my main question.
Anyone have any good / bad / indifferent stories about taking ski lessons on dry slopes - especially Sandown? Is this a good idea, or is the fact that a fall will hurt more only going to instill them with even more dread of the mountains?
Another option is the Milton Keynes Xscape fake snow - but I know three or four experienced skiers who have come a cropper on ice there and I think that would be just as bad or worse than the real thing.
Words of wisdom eagerly awaited.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Doh! In the wrong forum! Sorry everyone! Can a mod move this to somewhere more useful....?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Don't know about the regular ski school at Sandown, but the race club there has a great tradition, and has produced several British Ski Team members over the years. Despite it being quite a short and crooked slope!
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Dry slope lessons are always a good idea for beginners. Whatever experienced skiers may think of dry slopes, for beginners they're ideal.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Took the learn-to-ski course at Rossendale dry ski slope and would recommend it to anybody, yes it does hurt falling but the teaching was of such a good standard that we didnt fall too much (ask for Les!)
Was not too impressed with XScape at Castleford, the beginner piste was far too crowded and the teachers were very errrr ...young shall we say
If you get some of the basics learned here you will have a far better holiday in my very recent experience
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ken_1969, from what you have written your friends are not beginners but are apprehensive.
I don't know Sandown, but assuming that it is a bristle/mesh slope, my view would be:
Dry slopes are good for:
Learning to put on boots and skis, how the bindings work etc.
Learning how it feels to stand and walk around in boots and skis.
Your friends already know this.
What they are bad for is falling over and hurting yourself (as you have already stated) especially hips (bruising) and thumbs (more serious fractures and ligament damage) which is only going to make your apprehensive friends more apprehensive (assuming they fall!)
Therefore - No.
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ken_1969, Book them a lesson there....yes it will help (a lot).
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ken_1969, I learnt on a dry slope, my kids learnt on a dry slope, my nanny learnt on a dry slope, lots of people I know have learnt on a dry slope. None have (yet) had any significant injury. Falling on dry (indeed on any surface) is obviously not a good idea but significant injuries couldn't be said to be a high likelihood for any normal individual person, even on dry. I used to do a fair amount of dry and have fallen several times at speed and only a couple of times had brush burn to be proud of.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Depends why they are nervous - is it the 'might fall off cliff' or 'might fall and it hurts' or just 'can't stop, haven't mastered snowplough'? I back dry slopes for lessons as far as controlled snowplough turns, and they are good for people with 'mountain fear' as they are consistent, and non-threatening. For those just afraid of falling generally, or anyone past the snowplough stage they are not much good IMO - it's just not the same as the feeling on snow, even if they get over their nerves on the dry slope I can't see that translating to confidence on mountain. Also if they are already 'anti' a couple of hours won't change that and will probably make them even more inclined to back out of a trip - dry slope is almost all the disadvantages (uncomfy boots, difficult, scary sliding etc etc) and none of the advanatges (beautiful clean air, fantastic views, toasty warm chalet afterwadrs, fondue, vin chaud) of real skiing!
I learnt on dry slope, and taught on dry slope, but in the end it is a poor substitute. I'd spend the cash on private lessons in a nice quiet, gentle resort instead...
my vote is no - get them out there where they can't back out!
aj xx
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Hi all - thanks for the perspectives.
A bit more background - our two nervous ninnies are very different cases.
My wife, Sandy, I honestly can't really call a beginner. She's been skiing three years in a row - but only actually skied one full week. She had a bad first week at ski school in Tignes which dented her confidence - she only did a day and a half and never even mastered snow plough - she was the slowest in the group, and a couple of times the instructor actually led the group off without her and nearly lost her completely. The last straw was when he asked her to ski with one ski only and she felt genuinely afraid that she would injure herself so she quit and would not go back that week.
I persuaded her to go back a second year to La Plagne which went pretty well - I taught her myself on snow blades (what's to teach?) and she was merrily skiing away on nice gentle blues. She started well last year in Les Deux Alpes again on blades, but then disaster struck. We were coming down a blue when a blizzard hit. Sandy had been skiing pretty well up to that stage, but the blizzard was intense, and there were ski stewards coming down on snow-cats yelling at people "hurry up and get off the mountain!" which panicked her completely.
Worse, the only way down was the long, narrow, windy blue at the front of the larger of the two Alps. I don't know how long it is but we remember the panic started at marker 48. Her legs pretty much gave out. At one point she took her blades off and was going to walk down. Then on the long windy narrow descent she was convinced she was going to go over the edge of the mountain and was in tears most of the way down and was ready to quit skiing. She took a day off and I got her back out on the nursery slopes at the bottom of the mountain she froze completely - couldn't even ski on the easiest nursery slope - and returned her blades to the shop.
So she's had three years, two disastrous, one good but is feeling quite positive. However, neither of us want to spend £600 for her on a skiing holiday again only to have her ski one or two days and quit again. She thinks maybe the dry slopes will just start her out on the right foot. Also, this year I'm putting her back on normal skis - personally I love blades but I learnt to parallel on normal skis before going to blades and I think Sandy still needs to get those basic techniques down. As has been said, dry slopes offer a more consistent surface to practise on. I know there are no guarantees of not falling, but I think she has less a fear of falling and more a fear of being out of control - not being able to turn and falling off the edge of the piste! Only practise and faith in her abilities will get her over that.
Our friend Bronagh is a different story. She did ski school with me 6 years back in Pas De La Casa. The conditions were icy, and none of us were particularly natural skiers, but of all of us Bronagh was the worst of the bunch, always at the back of the group, and every time she fell over we all ended up waiting for her to get back up. She spent the week exhausted and miserable and swore never to ski again. Her boyfriend has persuaded her to give it one last try this year. Bronagh is a fair bit fitter this year but still very nervous. My feeling is a few hours on a dry slope will serve as a reminder of all the equipment and basics and just speed her progress when she takes proper lessons out there. Hopefully get her at least snowploughing confidently without worrying about ice every 10 yards.
I was thinking maybe 3 hours of private lessons at Sandown just to get them both to the point of managing snow plough on the nursery slopes, followed by a couple of open practise sessions by themselves to build a little confidence. Then private lessons in Oz/Alpe d'Huez should gel what they have learnt.
All that being said, I just got a text from John and Bronagh saying they are now not sure as the private lessons at Sandown are pretty pricey - it works out £25 each per hour if the two of them take a lesson together.
Will have to see!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ken_1969, I guess one thing that should be taken into consideration is that unfortunately, not everyone takes to skiing - like all sports there are always some who dislike (whether they are good or bad at the sport) and some who can't get enough (whether they are good or bad at the sport). The biggest factor to me when talking to other skiers is confidence - knowing that you are in control, knowing that you can avoid situations etc. I have skied for a while now, and had my first experience on skis in was in a resort, but I then had a course of private lessons on a dry slope before I went skiing the next year. I remember finding the dry slope much more difficult than real snow to be, but when I went for the second holiday, I remember being amazed at how much easier skiing on real snow seemed to be. My confidence increased no end, and I think that this was a major factor in well and truely catching the ski bug. This year I have tried snowboarding - I did the learn to board in a day at the MK dome in November, got on OK, and decided to have a few practise sessions on a dry slope before going on a weekend trip over New Year. Just like my skiing experience, the dry slope shook my confidence, and it was as though I had not done the course in MK. I booked a few private lessons with a board instructor, he got me moving again, and the results were just like my skiing experience when I got on the real snow - Much to my wife's suprise/disapointment (she couldn't laugh at me as much as she wanted and expected to!) I found boarding on the real thing was so much easier than on the dry slope.
I know that I have rambled on, but the thing is that the ski and board instructors at the dry slopes I have used, both said that better technique is required to move/turn on the slopes than on real slopes, and that if you can learn and apply good technique on the dry slope, skiing/boarding on snow is easier/more controlled, and from that confidence and enjoyment takes off in abundance.
Having skied for 10 years and then started all over again on the board, I can totally empathise with your wife and friend, and I would totally encourage the use of the dry slopes, and expalin to them that even if they aren't enjoying the dry slope experience, it will greatly help their time on the real thing.
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If you can stand the expense, then for what you have in mind it probably would work out, i.e just enough to remind them of snowplough and slow speed turns without the fear of flying over the cliff edge
I don't think it's necessary though if cash is an issue, the promise of private lessons in alpe should cheer them up really as it sounds like both problems were basically caused by poor instruction coupled with being the slowest of the group. I know from personal experience this is VERY depressing (I'm the least athletic of my group). Just keep reassuring them private lessons are completely different, and make sure you request an instructor interested in teaching nervous novices and I'm sure all will be fine.
That aside, tell Sandy it's not just her  LDA is not kind in bad weather, as the links tend not to be smooth predictable gradient, but either flat (requires nerves of steel to shush when you can't see) or are have some steep angles on them (in good light you can stay to the easy path, in the flat light or whiteout it's easy to end up on something steeper than you like, just by being to the wrong side of a piste). My OH had exactly the same experience on day 2 of his first holiday (including a personal escort of 3 patrollers down that winding run(it's actually a green) yelling la vitesse, and swearing about the fact it was going dark), luckily he is generally a confident chap and a 2 hour private lesson the following day sorted him out to the extent he was up the mountain with us again a day later, with little harm and as we were them lucky with the weather by the end of the week his confidence had returned. He is now (5 hols later) a confident (if still not entirely competent) intermediates and zipping about all over the place with nary a care in the world - so there is hope
aj xx
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You know it makes sense.
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ken_1969, Oh dear - your wife was very unlucky. I do agree with ajhainey, that getting stuck up our mountain in a blizzard is not fun, and that green run (Chemin des Demoiselles) can be pretty intimidating to many as it's so narrow. It was just really bad luck though 'cos we actually do have an average 300 days of sunshine a year (yes really). I do feel for her. However, she had a good time at La Plagne. She clearly suffered from poor instruction the first time, and the weather is completely beyond anyone's control. I don't think she's beyond hope. Just make sure she gets a sympathetic teacher this time - make sure you explain to the ski school what you're looking for. Your friend was just unlucky to have rotten conditions, and if she was falling regularly! I suggest they both start again with a private teacher in resort and with nice short skis (shoulder height max). A lesson or two at Sandown could help - but it's not the best slope for confidence - Aldershot or Bracknell would be better in that respect - wider and more constant.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
as the private lessons at Sandown are pretty pricey
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have you considered group lessons? I did a 3 x 2 hour group lesson at Sandown, in a group of about 6, and just about managed to snowplough and possibly stem turn, from scratch.
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but it's not the best slope for confidence
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After the group lessons and a couple of free skiing sessions, I hit the White Lady (warning:misogyny-free, but snowplough, or something, on the slope!)....of course, that was back in days when Scottish ski resorts had snow
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Kit, yes, we did consider group lessons, but Sandown's groups go up to a maximum of 10 people. It sounds like you got quite lucky - with 6 people you are going to get a lot more out of it than in a bigger group. It's just the luck of the draw but if you happen to wind up with a full group of 10 my wife and friend are just not going to get the personal attention I think they need.
As now is peak time for Sandown I am not terribly confident of getting a quiet little group.
With private tuition for a group of 2-4 people they are going to get much better instruction and hopefully the instructor will be sensitive to their confidence issues. I can't say the cash is not an issue for us but I would rather spend a bit more up front and give them a better chance of enjoying it once they get out there.
Thaks for the encouragement and positive stories - the thing is, I know Sandy loves the idea of skiing and I'm sure once she gets her confidence up she will be absolutely fine. She positively runs rings around me on ice skates and rollerblades which I think are much harder skills to learn!
Cheers,
Ken
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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LDA is not kind in bad weather
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lots of resorts are not great for beginners in any weather (e.g. Tignes, where I would hate to have learnt or particularly had second holiday). Choose the right resort, with non-threatening ways down from everywhere, lots of gentle pistes for progressing, and not too many boy racers scaring the wits out of nervous beginners. Where are you going to take them? Tough, keen, learners get on well on dry slopes but they can sometimes seem unfriendly, muddy and bleak.
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Not meaning to promote where i teach, but have skiied at Sandown a few times, and you might like to consider coming up to Bracknell instead? Different surface, straight slope, chair lift as well as buttons, ...
Whatever you choose, i hope they both have a good experince, and you all have a great holiday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kit Wong, I worked at Sandown - I know the slope. Many people find it intimidating and the 2nd slope is tiny. Both Aldershot and Bracknell are longer, wider and more constant slopes, therefore for people with nerve problems more suitable - sorry Sandown!!
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Consider a change of venue for your holiday. I both "learnt to ski" and had my second year of learning to board in Pamporovo in Bulgaria. It's a Begineers/Intermediate resort. The group tuition for begineers is excellent and private lessons are very cheap.
It's cheap and cheerful (so you wouldn't be wasting the same amount of money if things don't go to plan).
The nightlife is good fun and cheap too.
We've been four times.
My partner was a reluctant begineer last time and he made me book to go again as soon as we got back.
We're taking his daughter who's a begineer for the first time this year.
I've skied and boarded most of the slopes, there aren't a huge amount which makes it less intimidating if you're not entirely signed up to the whole idea.
Meeting up during and at the end of the day is easy.
There are no big drops of the sides of pistes to make anyone nervous.
Best of luck whatever you decide - I hope it all works out.
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If people already have expirence of skiing on snow i would not go for dry slopes in this country. I would put the money saved towards some private lessons on snow. You would also need to pick a resort with a good big nursery slope such as Westerdorf in Austria.
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Send them to the next EpicSkiAcademy....
Or get the 2 of them to Whistler & book a private lesson with either Stephen Brooks or Roger Systad... both very good & very patient - I know I have tested the patient bit  ... also FUN.... Roger has the HIGHEST return rate at my home resort... Stephen - well you cannot help but laugh & after I "lent" him to a learner friend one day she swears she is off to Whistler & taking privates....
then again - send them for a holiday to australia next summer & they can have Roger at a fraction of the price (cheaper lessons & good exchange rate)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks again all for your advice. We had been hoping to book a couple of days off work and get the gals into lessons at Sandown this week, but as the missus caught a chest infection and was off sick from work all last week it just won't be possible so have to postpone for a little while at least.
We are already booked for Oz en Oisans in Alpe d'Huez, which I hear is reasonably good for beginners, although we are not going til March 18th so the conditions will likely be a little unpredictable.
That's another reason I wanted them to put in some hours on skis, even if it is on dry slopes, to at least begin to prepare them for the mountains. We are definitely booking them into private lessons once they get out there (and for the rest of us too!) but I can't help thinking they will feel more prepared and less apprehensive if they get some practise in here first.
I've heard a couple of people say Bracknell is a better bet than Sandown for beginners so we might consider that. On the face of it, it does seem a bit extreme to head 25 miles or so to Bracknell when Sandown is less than 2 miles from our door - but if there's really that much difference then it's definitely worth considering it. We did go and look at some time back but never actually tried it out.
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ken_1969, Aldershot is probably a bit closer tyo you than Bracknell. That's a good slope as well. In view of what you've said above (and as I said, sorry Sandown) I really do advise you make the journey.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My old lady was converted to skiing (after an unsucessful holiday) on the dry slope at Crystal Palace, which is about the size of a table mat. It gave her the confidence to give it another go on snow, and it's been downhill from there.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ken_1969, to add to the suggestions of Aldershot and Bracknell, there are a couple of additional points that may be worth considering (I've not skied at Bracknell or Sandown but do so at Aldershot regularly). If your firend is going to fall a lot you should really think about Bracknell. Falling on Dendix does hurt (I've done extensive research on that over the last year! - slikedges must be built with extensive padding if he's not hurt himself falling at speed ), but as Robbie says Bracknell is covered in snowflex, a sort of deep pile carpet, which I am told is rather like slush to ski on and doesn't hurt when you fall on it. I'm not sure how lessons are organised at Aldershot, but looking at the lessons that have been running there the last few Wednesday evenings there seem to be no more than about 6 in a lesson, and some of them have had as few as 3. They normally seem to have one raw beginners' class and one doing snowplough turns onwards. The other thing Aldershot offers that may help is that while the second and third slopes have fairly gentle slopes, the top of the main one is fairly steep, so may be good for taking budding confidence a bit further once it's been built up a bit on the lower slopes.
I would echo the point that Dendix is a pretty unforgiving surface, so you do have to work fairly hard to work things the way you want them to happen. This is a good thing though in that you can work on the technique stuff while not worrying about the stunning mountain drops around you (Aldershot's not that scenic  ), and when you do get on to the snow it'll all seem SO much easier.
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The beginners area at my home slope has recently been changed from Dendix to Snowflex and I would agree that Snowflex is a much better surface to fall on as it does not have the holes and also it is laid over a padded underlay. It is however a more slippery surface particularly with a good sprinkler system so when people fall they do tend to keep slipping so it is very important to make sure that you wear a good pair of gloves and a top and trousers that are not going to ride up to prevent friction burns. You also need a good pair of waterproof trousers as you will get soaked. We also have one main slope covered in Snowflex and one in Dendix which do ski totally differently and this works well as you have to make adjustments to your skiing when using the different surfaces.
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You know it makes sense.
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If you are going to Alpe 'D then book some lessons with 'MasterClass' they are superb!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| slikedges wrote: |
I used to do a fair amount of dry and have fallen several times at speed and only a couple of times had brush burn to be proud of.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
slikedges must be built with extensive padding if he's not hurt himself falling at speed
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Maybe I've just got a higher pain threshold? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Lorraine wrote: |
| If you are going to Alpe 'D then book some lessons with 'MasterClass' they are superb! |
I'd second that! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN, ouch, I'd be careful on dry if I were you 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I learned to snowplough, use a button lift and fall over last year on a dry slope in T. Wells. Worth every penny 'cos when you get to the nursery slopes you find that skiing is easier and falling less painful on snow made by the man in the sky.
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FAQ
