 Poster: A snowHead
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So it's that time of year when I price TOs against a DIY trip. Since I've been counting, the score is DIY 11 - 3 TO.
I admit that we're not ideal TO material. We have teenage kids so have to travel at peak time, and a family of five doesn't fit easily into TO sized accommodation. But this Easter is typical: we've booked 8 days' skiing in Val d'Isere for £1,100 less than the price of 6 days in the same hotel with Crystal. Even better, we fly from our local airport instead of Gatwick and have private transfers to the resort. The cash saved will be spent on a private guide for 3 days of off-piste revelry.
We could have found a cheaper TO deal, but we could also have found a cheaper DIY deal. Another year; another victory for DIY.
Am I alone?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You're not alone but we'd rather DIY a bit more and skip the private transfers and hire a vehicle and drive ourselves. That way we can back bottom about for however long we want in whatever supermarket we choose and stock up on as much food and (more importantly) beer, wine and genepi as we want for considerably less than we would pay in resort and have the option of getting in our car and driving somewhere else if we fancied starting off there on any particular day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For late booking deals, TO's usually come out on top, <£400 for flight, transfer and chalet accommodation but booking ahead for 1/2 term I could have saved a few quid by diy but not doing 1/2 term now.
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@Jonny Jones, No you are not! But many don't have the initiative/prefer to have the safety net of a TO/need someone to whine at when it goes wrong to go DIY.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@swiftoid good tip. Car hire would give us freedom to visit other resorts.
I haven't booked the transfers yet. Car hire might be a better option.
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For us, a family of three, it's a close run thing. Interestingly it is usually the cost of transfers/car hire that would swing us in the favour of a tour operator. Also a distinct inability to book flights when they are cheap - due to our lack of organisation/decision making.
This season, however, both our trips will be DIY made by the fact that we have managed to get pretty cheap flights (boked on day of release) and for our first trip transfers are also reasonable. No idea where we'll go for our Easter trip so not sorted transfers/car hire yet.
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@chocksaway, lots of people want the safety net of TO, but it doesn't mean they're going to get it. A friend of mine was on a Crystal trip to Val Thorens last Xmas and was caught up in snowmageddeon on the journey home. The TOs were completely overwhelmed and couldn't cope, so my friend ended up DIY'ing her own travel home since that was easier.
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I usually use Crystal as when I price them vs DIY, there's usually not much in it. Different this year - DIY was around £1200 cheaper for a family of four, which is great. Pays for the ski passes/hire/lessons, so I'm pretty happy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Jonny Jones, Haven't used a TO for 20 years and don't know anyone who does anymore, gave up being herded about years ago, going on super early flights because they are cheaper for the TO, and sat waiting at airports on landing for the next flight that should have landed 1/2 hour ago but is running late, just so the TO can save a few Euros on transfer costs....... when I'd rather be skiing.
OK cost is important but its more about a better overall experience, best accommodation/ food for your money, and also being in control imo. Its just so easy to book everything independently nowadays online I really don't get why folk use a TO and put up with all the hassle. It always seems so easy when doing it yourself, I can't think a TO can do much for their money other than take a nice slice out of the deal and employ a few numpties in resort who are never about when you might want them in my past experience..... 
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@crudeFool, so your saving was even more than mine I'm £ terms, but I'll also benefit from two extra days on the slopes.
I was shocked by the size of the differential. DIY is usually cheaper in my experience, but this year the difference was huge. I suspect it might be due to favourable currency movements in recent months with TOs not passing on the benefit to consumers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It depends how deep into TO search you go. I had a quote for a trip from Iglu that was over £2000 (yes, two thousand pounds) more than a boutique TO and Iglu quoted for a 3* hotel whereas I got a 4* instead
I had to phone Iglu up to ask if they'd made some sort of mistake
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Markymark29, totally. When I've used a TO because they were cheaper, I can't say I've ever enjoyed the things they've brought to the table: horrible flights, horrible transfers and a horrible expectation that I will want to make polite conversation with random strangers are my pet gripes.
Do I sound like a grumpy old git?
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we tried to do TO this year, but they never quite fit what we want, and forcing us to fly at 6am from gatwick is just silly.
Cost wise the prices that came close to DIY costs were in the TO cheapest accommodation, and checking trip advisor usually showed why they were cheap.
They do win on free lift passes and child places, but overall, couldn't find what we wanted, maybe last minute might be worthwhile if I didn't have to get to gatwick for check in at some silly time in the morning.
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You know it makes sense.
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TOs seem to "win" for last minute deals and possibly when you are travelling outside of peak times.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Jonny Jones, Nope....agree totally. A young rep on the bus telling me on the microphone about all the stuff I can do in resort when I've been there most years since 5 years before he/she was born...... Then trying to sell me a £60 midweek fondue/ oompah band night when I could have bought it myself for half the price......if I'd wanted to go in the first place.
I just don't get it.........OK if I was going to Pakistan or Alaska heli-skiing, or even Japan I'd likely go with a specialist company but for trips to the Alps its more stressful going to London for the weekend, and I don't need anyone holding my hand there either!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I prefer DIY mainly because I have have non-standard requirements, ie not travelling Saturday to Saturday or Sunday to Sunday. And I also find it fun doing the online research, speaking to resort tourist offices and hotels etc. I also prefer to get going on the transfer as soon as I arrive in Zurich or Geneva rather than having "to wait for the Manchester flight" etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Jonny Jones, we find the diy route much cheaper and more flexible, we have managed to get a 10bed self catering apartment for 2 families at the cost of 1 person on a TO trip in feb half term, because kids have inset day on the Monday after and with flexible dates we check in sat afternoon and check out the following sunday and with self drive we have potentially 8 1/2 days skiing that week. With a leisurely stop at Calais on the way home on the monday to stock up on goodies at cite de Europe
Am not sure myself why people use TO's or even travel agents nowadays as so much can be done over the T'internet, I remember my first diy trip was nearly 25 years ago now to the states, it must of cost me a fortune to book accommodation/transfers etc in Colorado using a secretarial service, sending faxes backwards and forwards taking into account the time difference.
god bless sir Tim Bernard Lees
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Marky, even going to Japan is way cheaper and more flexible than using a TO. Just booked my Japan trip all independent and saved thousands! Already had a weekend trip this season plus got christmas, mid Jan booked independent as well. Now looking at Park City for April!
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@Old Man Of Lech, I'm sure its cheaper in Japan going independently, I'm not sure I'd be able to find my way about though, road-signs etc 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think we on here forget sometimes how stressfull a ski holiday can be if you are a first or second timer, or have a few kids in tow. Sometimes it is worth paying a little extra for the convenience of someone else sorting it all out for you. Kids clubs are a great example of this.
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| james75 wrote: |
| I think we on here forget sometimes how stressfull a ski holiday can be if you are a first or second timer, or have a few kids in tow. Sometimes it is worth paying a little extra for the convenience of someone else sorting it all out for you. Kids clubs are a great example of this. |
It was kids that set me on the path of DIY trips.
In 2002 we took our kids skiing for the first time and we fancied the States. IIRC, the best TO price for the family was £5,100; flights were cheaper back then so I did a DIY trip instead for around £2,500. There was no stress about the kids at all - I slid my credit card across the counter in the Breckenridge childcare centre and everything was taken care of.
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Must give the DIY thing a try one year. I do like the catered chalet things and meeting people and getting to know them during the week. Catered Chalets are the main reason I use TO's at the moment. Also when there is just 2 people normally I would say a TO wins unless you have a specific requirement etc.
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@chrisrawles, there are some great catered chalets run by independents - and quite a few of them can help with transfers too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We found this year's chalet through Owners Direct and sourced everything else ourselves. My family of 4 is paying roughly the same as TO last year (hotel in Austria) but I've already paid for lift passes and ski hire for that price so a definite win for DIY.
There are 25 of us going too so using a TO could have been a nightmare with regard to getting everybody to agree and pay the deposit on time.
There are indeed some fantastic independent chalets out there and by all accounts we've picked one
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DIY is often significantly cheaper than the TO option if you have kids.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For us (a couple), DIY is generally cheaper than a TO, unless a) you're booking last minute or b) you go somewhere with really expensive transfers. We usually go during low season.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@musher, +1, especially at peak times
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Put it this way.....since finalising my DIY trip to Chatel 2 months ago (for January), I have found (discounting Bulgaria), 1 (yes one) TO deal that would have worked out cheaper (by about £30), by the time I added on lift pass and ski hire.
That was on black Friday when an already cheap deal to Les Deux Alps was reduced by a further £100.
This is comparing prices for a single traveller, and my DIY trip (£500 for absolutely everything) would have been £80 less with someone else to share the accommodation with. There were cheaper accommodation deals available that would have brought the cost down even further.
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You know it makes sense.
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I've been looking at doing a trip to USA (my first), and interestingly both TO and diy are very similar in price. Possibly because of wanting to fly from Scotland, but the biggest problem is the cost of accommodation - if I go I'll be paying for a room that could sleep 4, whether in a condo or in an hotel. I haven't been able to find a room for much less than £1000 !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Of course you forego the safety blanket when you travel DIY. If your flight arrives late and the car hire desk is shut, tough. If you get your hired car and it breaks down, or has a puncture, on a dark mountain road at midnight, tough. If you manage to get the snowchains on, after 30 minutes of effort in a blizzard, then one breaks and wraps itself round something important behind the wheel, tough. If you break your leg and can't travel on the flight you booked, you sort it out yourself (and hope you've got good insurance).
If you hit "snowmageddon" and find yourself in a queue of hopelessly stuck cars at midnight with no hope of getting anywhere for many hours, tough.
It's all doable - but all those things have happened to people I know first hand. You need to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.
I am always DIY now because I have my own apartment. But in the past we found some very good deals with TOs and on our first few holidays, with kids, were glad of their support from time to tome.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Here's something to look out for...we booked a decent hotel in South Lake Tahoe back in the summer for a very competitive price, with free cancellation, through one of the well-known hotel booking sites. (.yeah!) Yesterday while idly browsing, I found the same room at the same hotel on the same dates on the same site but £160 cheaper. Rapid cancellation and re-booking - I shall be a regular visitor to the site before departure... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@pam w,
At over £1000 saving a holiday I'm prepared to take my chances
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
Of course you forego the safety blanket when you travel DIY. If your flight arrives late and the car hire desk is shut, tough. If you get your hired car and it breaks down, or has a puncture, on a dark mountain road at midnight, tough. If you manage to get the snowchains on, after 30 minutes of effort in a blizzard, then one breaks and wraps itself round something important behind the wheel, tough. If you break your leg and can't travel on the flight you booked, you sort it out yourself (and hope you've got good insurance).
If you hit "snowmageddon" and find yourself in a queue of hopelessly stuck cars at midnight with no hope of getting anywhere for many hours, tough.
It's all doable - but all those things have happened to people I know first hand. You need to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.
I am always DIY now because I have my own apartment. But in the past we found some very good deals with TOs and on our first few holidays, with kids, were glad of their support from time to tome. |
Fair points, Pam, but many of those dramas can be mitigated by good insurance, as you say, using a reputable hire car company with good rescue policies and the global assist programmes run by companies such as American Express. When my car went bang on the way home from La Plagne (and in the middle of nowhere), their agents played a blinder.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's fairly obvious that not many on here favour the TO approach, but most on here are avid skiiers/boarders who have a vast amount of experience of organising trips. Many holidayers are not as experienced so value the TO approach, and to question those who do use a TO is a little harsh. DIY for some, TO for others, or even a mixture of both can work.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i'm also a DIY fan. Why would anyone bother with TO's and be herded like sheep at ungodly times of the day! having said that, i'm off to La Plagne in a group of 30 to catered chalet. went last year to the same chalet. the transfer is murder and the accommodation is basic and food.....well least said the better! but i go because it's a great crack with a good bunch of like minded friends....however in March i go to Alpbach just with my wife, return flights £125 each 4* half board hotel £350 each and Merc estate hired for £85. it's just a five day trip but for about £500 each plus ski pass in a luxury hotel this has got to be the way forwards. The hire car also gives us the freedom to visit other areas etc. 
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Unlike some one here one of the reasons I don't like going TO is because their flights aren't early enough and I'd miss out on an afternoon's skiing. Also, I'd have to come home on a Saturday so couldn't ski all day Saturday and sometimes Sun morning and fly back Sunday night.
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I prefer DIY as I enjoy organising a trip, finding the best deals etc. It almost always works out cheaper than a TO unless it's very last minute.
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Even if you do use a tour operator for the main elements of your holiday, flights, transfers and hotels, you can still save an amount by sourcing lift passes, hiring equipment or lessons yourself.
Most operators buy enough lift passes to be able to obtain a free one for every so many bought. This free one, they are given, is then sold to the unsuspecting guest with the promise that the customer will pay no more by buying the pass through the tour operator than if it is bought direct.
When hiring equipment, many places will offer a deal to fit out the whole family/party. Tour operators charge the same rate no matter how many people in your group.
The latter applies to lessons too. Everyone in the group will need to pay the lesson fee per person to the tour operator. However many ski schools offer family discounts, or for private lessons, the first person is charged the normal rate, subsequent people are charged an add on fee. I do not believe the tour operators are passing on this saving to their customers.
Of course, nothing illegal about not passing on savings, if that is how you wish to do business. But it's a little unethical when they generally state that they are able to obtain preferential prices for their customers but are in fact, ripping them off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DIY is really no more difficult than using a TO: one website for flights; another for hotels and a third for transfers. Nothing stressful about that.
If I hit pam_w's snowmaggedon or suffer a delayed flight, I'll pull out my credit card and buy my way out of the problem. If I'm saving £1K per trip, I have a fairly hefty amount of cash left over to cover emergencies.
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@james75, +1 horses for courses.
We used to do catered chalets, then we bought our own place and so DIY. And yes, it has got a whole lot easier thanks to t'internet. Having said that, we still use a specialist train aggregator (Rail Canterbury) and find that they generally can do us a good deal without me having to be on-line at silly o'Clock.
I can still see however that without someone around to guide you for your first trip, the safety net is extremely useful. 2nd trip? ...maybe not so much. 3rd trip? Now you're just being lazy.
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FAQ
