 Poster: A snowHead
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I have a son with Autism. Last year we purchased an annual multi-trip policy with Winter Sports through the insurer recommended by the Autism society (Unique). This was partly because we took the decision to take our first ski holiday at short notice, and partly through an abundance of caution. I'm now looking at cover for 2015 and frankly I think I was ripped off last year - the premium was in excess of 270 quid for a family of 3. I was just wondering whether there's anyone in a similar position (or in the industry) who can tell me what I should realistically expect to pay, or recommend a more competitive insurer that might cover my son's autism?
Second question. Because I purchased late last year my policy runs from February. I'm off on the MYAsHBash2 in January, so my existing policy will cover this trip. However my concern is that if I pick up an injury that means we have to cancel our March trip this will be on a different policy and presumably wouldn't be covered if it occured prior to the commencement of the policy. As you can see from the above it's also unlikely this would be the same provider. So do I need to overlap my new policy so that it begins before my January trip. Then I'd have two polices for the same thing, and presumably the Jan trip would count against the number of skiing days allowed on both polices. Can anyone confirm or clarify my thinking?
I'm confused!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not sure why autism needs specific cover unless there is some self harming element that would be out of the ordinary for a child. Children do risky things all the time. What is sure that as soon as you are declaring specific conditions premiums go up because you now stand out from the general risk pool. No idea about the overlap position personally - not something I've generally worried about beyond not booking the EOSB until I'm sure i've got through the majority of the season's trips without damage. Personally I'd probably chance it but if you are extra cautious by all means commence your second policy before the MyAsh.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Tubaski, autism isn't a pre-existing medical condition so I cannot see why a normal family policy wouldn't cover you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The annual policy you have will cover your future bookings up until the time it expires. So if you have an injury on the MYAsHBash2 that means you have to cancel the March trip then any loss should be covered by the existing policy. You just need to buy a new policy to commence the day the existing one expires to cover any need to cancel post the end of the current one.
I asked my provider the same question last year when I booked a holiday starting after the end date of the annual policy and was told cancellation would be covered.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Pruman, whether autism is a "medical condition" or not in the strictest sense of the phrase, I think you would be silly not to declare it on a policy. A quick search on the web suggests that most insurers consider autism to fall within the scope of "pre-existing medical condition"
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'd suggest you ring a broker and talk to them - the internet is pretty hopeless once it's an unusual situation. MPI brokers have a good reputation here.
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@tarrantd, Thanks good info - I hadn't considered that.
@dobby, Completely agree. I'd certainly not got any intention of not disclosing it. My concern is more around where insurers draw the line. e.g. whether they could try and argue that an injury (not necessarily a skiing injury) occurs because of the Autism. e.g. my boy is fascinated by TV screens, if he suddenly decided to run accross the road towards a screen and got hit by a car could a policy argue that was excluded because it was a consequence of his autism? I'll hope and expect not - but you hear so many stories of slippery insurance companies. I probably worry too much.
I actually suspect that this is all fine so long as I disclose accordingly, and that I just got ripped off last year.
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@Tubaski, Autism is a "condition" as far as the insurance companies are concerned plus they follow this declaration up with a couple of further questions to which they require answers, presumably to assess risk factors.
There has been a lot of discussion about whether to "self-insure" for pre-existing medical conditions but when I experimented with on-line quotations first with and then without my conditions they notified me of several other possible medical incidents that they would not cover if I didn't insure my pre-existing conditions.
Check with your current insurance company if your current policy would cover the cancellation of you March holiday and if so you then have time to shop around for your best solution.
As far as winter sports "days" are concerned the wording can be quite important, some refer to "winter sports holidays" , where presumably they count the total number of days holidays and others specifically refer to the number of days participating in winter sports.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Insurance always brings a wry smile to my face. One of our party had an op to deal with a particular condition. Because she had the op, our premiums are hugely inflated, even though her op (fingers crossed) has dealt with many of the symptoms she was experiencing. Those symptoms would probably have persisted if she hadn't had the op, but our premiums would probably have been lower. But there's probably some actuarial numbers in there somewhere....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Why does no one suggest normal travel insurance and then obtain the ski cover via the lift pass?
Am I missing something?
We're off to Serre Chevalier in January and the carte neige seems to cover everything including repatriation?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@PeDaSp, thanks, useful info
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| lambert wrote: |
Why does no one suggest normal travel insurance and then obtain the ski cover via the lift pass?
Am I missing something?
We're off to Serre Chevalier in January and the carte neige seems to cover everything including repatriation? |
I have a lot of problems with medical conditions and getting insurance (certainly cheaply or with decent levels of cover). I didn't know about the carte neige but did look into Austrian Alpine Club insurance. My understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it'd only cover you for anything that happened actually on piste (or on ski, on snow, on board) not whilst on the road or out eating or whilst travelling etc (or for cancellation) - and whilst that cover the main risk issues, there could be repatriation/medical expenses which happened when not participating in actual winter sports (e.g. crossing the road) which still need covering, and they will incur a premium loading on any policy for any medical condition, health problem etc. Looking into it, many policies won't cover you (without pre-screening and more premium) if you've ever had depression, anxiety, stress etc; ever. So just a mild period of the 'blues' 20 years ago, or a bit of work-related stress, when you went to see the GP once could actually bug you, insurance-wise! They'll think of anything to charge you more or wriggle out of it!
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You know it makes sense.
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Finally got to the bottom of this, and thought I should just update the thread for future reference of others.
My existing provider (with Unique - the policy recommended by the National Autisic Society) has confirmed to me that I would not be covered for cancelling a holiday beyond the end of the current policy year due to an injury which occured on the current policy - unless I renew with them (fat chance, see below).
I've ended up cancelling my exisiting policy (with 2 months to run) and buying a nice shiny new policy from LV, at half the price. So yes, in theory it's cost me a couple of months but saved me a lot more long term and gives me peace of mind that I am properly covered. Yes, I could have chanced it, but I am quite good at hurting myself (unintentionally) and the March family holiday is very much more expensive that the MYAsHBash2 in January. FWIW the LV policy seems better cover, and allows up to 30 days skiing compared to 17 on the other (although I can't really see Mrs. Tubaski letting me get anywhere near that...)
Incidentally, the call centre agent at Unique confirmed that there is nothing autism specific about their policy (it's just listed as a pre-exisiting medical condition), but that they donate 10% of the premium to the National Autistic Society. Have to confess I'm a little annoyed at that, especially as the National Autistic Society describe it as
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... a specialist travel insurance policy for: people affected by autism and other pre-existing medical conditions, disabilities and allergies
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So I was suckered last year - such is life. I don't really mind about the money but I am really quite cross that the NAS is giving the incorrect perception that you need expensive specialist cover to the very people that they are supposed to be supporting. I think that's pretty poor. It also seems they are not the only charity doing the same thing with Unique Insurance.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| lambert wrote: |
Why does no one suggest normal travel insurance and then obtain the ski cover via the lift pass?
Am I missing something?
We're off to Serre Chevalier in January and the carte neige seems to cover everything including repatriation? |
Read the small print
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| Carré Neige reimburses all remaining medical costs not covered by your national health insurance or additional insurance policy, up to 3000 € (with a deductible of 46 €). |
You need an EHIC as well.
3000 Euros is not a very large medical bill.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| TQA wrote: |
| ..3000 Euros is not a very large medical bill. |
Well the UK costs (SUS PbR in the UK) of medical care are easy to find, but free to us. What were you planning to have done out there, privately, precisely?
I just hear a lot about how you can spend the rest of your life in a US hospital and it'll bankrupt the western world, all of which is true, but you won't spend the rest of your life there, and clinical care (which to some extent it's my job to manage the costs of in the UK) isn't what people seem to think it is. Your insurer's liability will be limited and they'll just repatriate you if you're in a non-EU place and need drip-feeding for the rest of your life.
Sure, 3,000 Euros is a small wad if you insist, but France has a really good health system, and you can buy a fair but of carry-in Michellin starred food for 3K. Or an ambulance back to the UK.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It just seems to me that with the typical travel insurance offering a minimum of 100k medical and Endsleigh offering 10m the gap down to the 3k that Carte Neige is offering is a big one. Sure it is only to cover the stuff you don't get on the EHIC.
I guess it will do just fine for the broken leg but I am not so sure that something more serious won't leave you substantially out of pocket.
I guess I am just measuring it against my own experience of a sudden health emergency admittedly in the USA which came to around 200k $ plus the 35 k for the heli medevac.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi, have you thought about a packaged bank account with inclusive travel insurance. I have a Natwest account with worldwide cover including skiing for £16 pm. As it's a joint account it covers my wife too. The platinum account includes children, but the silver account doesn't.
It might be worth checking out.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Northerngeezer wrote: |
Hi, have you thought about a packaged bank account with inclusive travel insurance. I have a Natwest account with worldwide cover including skiing for £16 pm. As it's a joint account it covers my wife too. The platinum account includes children, but the silver account doesn't.
It might be worth checking out. |
As far as I know, none of the free travel insurance offered by high street banks will cover pre-existing issues. I had this issue with both Barclays and Santander, and also checked out Nat West's offer at the same time.
Try Insure and Go - they do mine, I had a brain tumour partially removed 12 years ago, and am now encumbered by diabetes. IAG load it up a bit but I only pay £125 a year for worldwide cover from me and the Mrs. They do telephone screening for anything that is pre-existing, its all very straight forward and the cover levels offered are very good.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have a Nationwide bank account with free travel insurance. I used to use Snowcard for this, but they started excluding my pre-existing conditions, which Nationwide were happy to cover. I've never had to claim from NW, so don't know how they deal with claims.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@nordicfan, More or less my experience with Snowcard. After quite a few years with them, they refused to cover my unchanged pre-existing conditions. I have since been covered by Nationwide's insurance, albeit I have had to pay a premium to cover these pre-existing conditions. However that premium is well below the base cost of a standard Snowcard policy. Sometime (a couple of years ago?), Snowcard seemed to adopt a different approach to business e.g, a change of business address (or at least the one they displayed on their website), phone numbers etc., an unwillingness to accept pre-existing medical conditions (for me, anyway) and significant hikes in premiums. From my perspective, it has not been a change for the better. Bit of a pity.
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My Sister in Law recently had to declare a new 'pre-existing' condition to her (then) insurer, Insure and Go. The condition is not currently being treated, and may never require treatment, but I & G simply said she was 'excluded' from their service and no longer covered. She is now with Staysure, a company that specialise in pre-existing conditions and although it's a higher premium (c.£200+ for a couple, annual multi-trip with wintersports), it was worth it to them for peace of mind. Any pre-existing condition, will be question-screened prior to a premium being offered. My husband's diabetes for example, raised our annual multi-trip family policy, by about £15.
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The main benefit of Carte Neige is it will cover the helicopter ride off the hill.
We are on the French system ( as residents ) and we have to pay the top up amount after the state has paid 65%-75% of the fees. My wife had a badly broken leg which required a week in a specialist trauma unit in Thonon, plus 2 operations, visits to specialists and consultants over a 4 moth period. All told we had to pay about €950 after the state contribution. We did not have Carte Neige at the time, so had to pay the fees for getting off the hill and the private ambulance to Hospital (€180). Luckily we were in a gully so she could not be reached by helicopter otherwise I'd be selling one of my kidneys to pay for that. Since that incident we have taken Carte Neige or similar.
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FAQ
