 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
So as a continuation to a previous post I want your opinions on whether to have my shell altered before i go on holiday to avoid painful skiing and wasted valuable ski time.
To explain I bought a pair of Head vector 115's and although initially comfy if not very snug they seemed like a good fit. Wearing around the house I experienced some pressure on the top of the foot leading to some numbness, pins and needles and the like. I have since skied in two different snow domes to get some sort of idea what they will ski like and although the pressure on top wasn't so bad my feet were aching from cramp on the ball of my foot within ten minutes, (behind my little toe and down the side). Having looked at the red areas on my foot after skiing they are indeed being pressed down the outer edge of the foot and maybe a little bit on top. I do feel that the boots are slightly too narrow for me as my foot feels as though its being squashed from side to side in the boot, unable to completely spread flat and also my footbed make the problem worse because they then press on the top of the boot slightly more than with the stock insole that came with the boot.
So.......do I wait till i get on 'real' snow or would you have them stretched beforehand. I do feel fairly confident that the problem will still be there out on the hill but please let me know your thoughts!
(btw, custom footbed in, liners heat molded on purchase etc)
thanks, Graeme
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Take them back to where you got them and explain the problem - they should then advise appropriately (if they're a decent bootfitter).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Im unable to do that due to my work but would like to take advantage of a boot fitter close to me at the moment. The boot fitter at the Hemel snow centre looked at my foot and said yes to stretch but having spoke over phone to another they said I may be better waiting till i get out on 'proper' snow as they were reluctant to stretch and then regret it later. Surely tho, if the problem is there in a snow dome its gonna be there on real snow. Im aware its colder, less drag etc on the real thing but I really don't see this solving all my problems of having a squashed foot.
Help!!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@graemekay, you would be able to get them stretched in-resort if necessary, but I suppose a lot depends on what sort of skier you are. If you are an accomplished technical skier, you'd probably want to wait. If (like me) you prioritise comfort then you'd have them stretched before you go rather than risk a spoilt day on your holiday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree with @pam w, Ski time on the slopes is so precious to me that I'd get them fixed before I go.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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To stretch. Boots shouldn't feel like that even brand new. My boots were slightly tight and uncomfortable the first few days but I could still ski full days in them without cramps and numbness. If you can't ski in them for any significant amount of time you won't even be able to break them in. Plus, if it's the shells that need stretching I doubt liners packing out will change much anyway.
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How tight have you got the buckles on the foot? If the boot is a decent fit they shouldn't have to be very tight.
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do your boots have proper custom foot beds, if not get some - a proper foot bed with support your foot and may end your problems.
In order of preference I would
1. Get foot beds made
2. Ski in resort for a day
Access the situation and may be seek out a good fitter for further advice.
Good luck
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@graemekay Its a shame you aren't able to take them back to the store you purchased them from. As @fixx says, any reputable boot fitters would take a look at them.
Was the boot fitting process you went through relatively professional in your opinion? Was time taken to accurately measure, shell check and 'try on' as many boots that 'fitted' your needs in terms of foot shape and skiing ability?
The reason i ask this - is because the quality of the boot fit will lead to what advice i would suggest.
If you feel it was a good professional boot fit, but the boots have just ended up being a little uncomfortable since, due to the pressure points - then having the boots professionally blown, may be the best option. You have already had the liners heat moulded, skied in them for an hour or two AND have an upgraded insole.
Without being able to see your physical foot and boot, it's a little difficult to advise as i'm sure you can appreciate.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Q1, how is the range of motion at your ankle joint? if limited this could cause your foot to A) pronate and twist causing pressure on the lateral side of the foot, B) for the heel to lift a little causing the pressure on top of the foot, and then the foot to try and rotate causing the pressure described
Q2 if you do a shell check, how much space is there behind your heel, and if you then move your heel into the back of the boot how much side to side motion can you get with the forefoot?
Q3 how was the footbed made? depending on your foot type and the insole it may not be giving you adequate support, if not the foot will again pronate and abduct into the side of the shell
prior to stretching the boot you need to know if you are treating the cause (the shell being too narrow) or a symptom of something else, it is very easy to make a boot wider, not so easy to make it narrow again, but having not seen your foot and the boot it is impossible to say wha the correct course of action should be
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Q1, how is the range of motion at your ankle joint? if limited this could cause your foot to A) pronate and twist causing pressure on the lateral side of the foot, B) for the heel to lift a little causing the pressure on top of the foot, and then the foot to try and rotate causing the pressure described
Q2 if you do a shell check, how much space is there behind your heel, and if you then move your heel into the back of the boot how much side to side motion can you get with the forefoot?
Q3 how was the footbed made? depending on your foot type and the insole it may not be giving you adequate support, if not the foot will again pronate and abduct into the side of the shell
prior to stretching the boot you need to know if you are treating the cause (the shell being too narrow) or a symptom of something else, it is very easy to make a boot wider, not so easy to make it narrow again, but having not seen your foot and the boot it is impossible to say what the correct course of action should be
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| CEM wrote: |
Q1, how is the range of motion at your ankle joint? if limited this could cause your foot to A) pronate and twist causing pressure on the lateral side of the foot, B) for the heel to lift a little causing the pressure on top of the foot, and then the foot to try and rotate causing the pressure described
Q2 if you do a shell check, how much space is there behind your heel, and if you then move your heel into the back of the boot how much side to side motion can you get with the forefoot?
Q3 how was the footbed made? depending on your foot type and the insole it may not be giving you adequate support, if not the foot will again pronate and abduct into the side of the shell
prior to stretching the boot you need to know if you are treating the cause (the shell being too narrow) or a symptom of something else, it is very easy to make a boot wider, not so easy to make it narrow again, but having not seen your foot and the boot it is impossible to say what the correct course of action should be |
HI CEM,
Thanks for your advice. To answer your questions I would say a) My ankle range of motion isn't limited to my knowledge. No heel lift when skiing. I can lift it in a standing position if i really try but not much ( less than a cm i think). Secondly regarding shell check, about 2cm behind heel and if I move into back of boot I get little to no motion side to side. Maybe a couple of mm at most. Lastly regarding footbed. It was custom made one where you stand on the squidgy pillows to get a foot impression and its a red coloured Sidas sole. (snow and rock standard)
The pressure seems to increase and cause more cramping with foot bed in as my foot has nowhere to spread in boot. I know thats a good thing generally but does that give you a clue to the problem maybe. By putting the cheap insoles in which you get with the boots they weren't so bad at first but the cramping slowly grew. I remember being told originally, some years ago that I do over pronate a little.
Your further thoughts would be appreciated CEM
Thank you
Graeme
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You know it makes sense.
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Graeme, if your foot is touching the sides of the shell without being weighted then you are almost certainly going to need the shell expanded, the liner is a couple of mm thick each side, and whilst it will compress a little, you still need to have space in the shell for all the component parts i.e. your foot, the sock and the liner in terms of width, the stretch required may well be very minor but it certainly sounds as though it will be required
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| CEM wrote: |
| Graeme, if your foot is touching the sides of the shell without being weighted then you are almost certainly going to need the shell expanded, the liner is a couple of mm thick each side, and whilst it will compress a little, you still need to have space in the shell for all the component parts i.e. your foot, the sock and the liner in terms of width, the stretch required may well be very minor but it certainly sounds as though it will be required |
Okay. Thank you. Out of interest how much wiggle space should there be side to side on a shell fit and this is without a sock yes?
Graeme
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Poster: A snowHead
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| graemekay wrote: |
| CEM wrote: |
| Graeme, if your foot is touching the sides of the shell without being weighted then you are almost certainly going to need the shell expanded, the liner is a couple of mm thick each side, and whilst it will compress a little, you still need to have space in the shell for all the component parts i.e. your foot, the sock and the liner in terms of width, the stretch required may well be very minor but it certainly sounds as though it will be required |
Okay. Thank you. Out of interest how much wiggle space should there be side to side on a shell fit and this is without a sock yes?
Graeme |
Also.....would it be a case of stretching both sides or just the outer edge where i feel it causing most problems?
G
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Although my only expertise is owning a pair of feet, logic would suggest that something has changed between having the boots fitted and now. Have your feet changed shape? It may sound a stupid question but I know my feet get fatter when I get fatter - difference of 6-8 lbs so not massive - this is judged on the fit of more than one pair of boots/shoes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@graemekay, people have different tolerances to "fit tension" but i would normally want to see 2-3mm either side of the foot, maybe a touch more for a foot which spreads a lot or a recreational skier, little less for a rigid foot or a high performance skier, everyone is different.
as to where you stretch that is only something that can be answered by the person with the boot in front of them, potentially just the lateral side of the boot, BUT if your foot is pronating and the footbed is not doing all the work it should, then it may be that a small stretch at the medial ankle would help (sounds strange, but if your foot is rolling into the inside of the shell at the ankle and it hits, the natural reaction is to try and move away from that problem , which then puts pressure on the outer edge of the foot) things like this make it very difficult to say exactly what the answer is without seeing the whole picture
hope that helps
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| Although my only expertise is owning a pair of feet, logic would suggest that something has changed between having the boots fitted and now. Have your feet changed shape? It may sound a stupid question but I know my feet get fatter when I get fatter - difference of 6-8 lbs so not massive - this is judged on the fit of more than one pair of boots/shoes. |
feet can change a little from static fit (in the shop) to dynamic fit (boots being used) there are also a number of other factors which can influence the it of a boot, binding delta angle, technique, hydration, fitness, how you put them on, sock thickness, the list can go on. sometimes the boot that feels great in the store can hurt when skiing, equally sometimes the one that feels not quite right in the store can settle down really nicely and be the better fit, everyone is different, every foot is different. and something as simple as not having worn boots for 11 months can make a difference to how they feel
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@CEM, I didn't think I was mad thinking my feet could change shape relatively easily, but it's nice to have my sanity confirmed by someone who knows more than me!
I should imagine what @graemekay, needs is to have the boots adjusted close to where they're going to be used so he can keep on getting it done until he's happy with them. I can remember from childhood how miserable it is to have painful boots - they were fine in the shop in England but just so painful on the mountain in Switzerland.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| CEM wrote: |
@graemekay, people have different tolerances to "fit tension" but i would normally want to see 2-3mm either side of the foot, maybe a touch more for a foot which spreads a lot or a recreational skier, little less for a rigid foot or a high performance skier, everyone is different.
as to where you stretch that is only something that can be answered by the person with the boot in front of them, potentially just the lateral side of the boot, BUT if your foot is pronating and the footbed is not doing all the work it should, then it may be that a small stretch at the medial ankle would help (sounds strange, but if your foot is rolling into the inside of the shell at the ankle and it hits, the natural reaction is to try and move away from that problem , which then puts pressure on the outer edge of the foot) things like this make it very difficult to say exactly what the answer is without seeing the whole picture
hope that helps |
Thank you so much. You have been more than helpful. I will call you and see if you can fit me in next Thurs/Fri
Thanks again
Graeme
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