Hi, we are a family of 3 (2 + 3yr old). Never skied before. Looking for something in Europe in Christmas time (last 2 weeks of December). Have done some research and so far the names that have cropped up are Avoriaz, Val d'Isere and Alpes d'Huez.
Looking for any feedback. We are looking for easy access to slopes with the 3yr old + decent snow in December + some nice après ski in town. Any thoughts/feedback welcome.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@New2Ski_ldn, Hi and welcome to snowHeads. Are you planning for your child to try skiing? Or looking for childcare while the adults ski? Or a mix of the two for your child, ie some skiing, some childcare? Two of the areas you mention (Avoriaz and Val D) are very large, much to offer all grades of skier/boarder and therefore expensive. I'd add that neither is ideal for beginners IMO, especially in late December. Other snowHeads may disagree! Alpe d'Huez is smaller but still a substantial area.
More questions. Are you planning to go Christmas 2015? If so, 19-26 Dec likely to much less busy and better value than 26 Dec-2 Jan. Or are you thinking of going for whole fortnight?
Do you prefer an attractive resort? Or happy to go somewhere functional (eg ugly) but convenient and more snow-sure?
How would you travel to Alps? Fly/package? Fly/self drive? Drive all way from UK (Eurostar/Ferry)? Train?
Depending on answers to these you should get plenty of sound advice and opinions from snowHeads!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi, welcome to snowheads, if you can provide a bit more detail on what your looking to do on the holiday, ie do you need childcare all day or half day, lessons for yourselves, will you play in the snow with your 3yr old, stay in hotel or SC, it's going to help with answers to your question.
FWIW a resort where the accommodation is not too high will give you a better nights sleep, essential with a youngster and when learning.
If you need childcare look at Esprit, they offer excellent child care with a range of options.
From my own experience the tuition in Andorra is very good, alot of the instructors have English as their first language, which makes it easier to understand what your being told to do, as your brain seems to work less effectively when your trying to stand on skis and not slide down the mountain involuntarily
Personally I'd say they are both too young for booking into any formal skiing, mucking around with the parents, sledging, sliding around for fun on whatever maybe more appropriate at their age.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@kitenski,
Quote:
Personally I'd say they are both too young for booking into any formal skiing
I'm not clear whether the group is 2 adults + 1 child (3 year old). Or 1 adult + 2 children (aged 2 and 3). I assumed the former but it is ambiguous I think.
I tend to agree that formal skiing is a big ask, physically and mentally, for an 'average' 3 year old. However our 3 year old did have an informal play around on skis at 3. When he was 4 he coped comfortably with 3 consecutive weeks of ski instruction in USA (though we gave him weekends off, as we're not at all pushy parents).
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
though we gave him weekends off, as we're not at all pushy parents
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@New2Ski_ldn, Hi and welcome to snowheads.
So much advice to give...
Firstly, this is your first ski holiday so there will be loads that you won't be familiar with and this can be tricky enough just as adults, let alone with a 3 year old. I would suggest firstly looking at companies that specifically cater for the kids. Esprit Ski is a great one (and I have previously used myself) Ski Familie is another. This will take so much of the stress out of it for you and will make your, and your childs' first experience a much more pleasant one. Esprit specifically do lessons for kids from aged 3 and they really do have loads of fun and look after them well. We are looking to go with them again this year as my youngest has just turned 3 and we want him to have the same first experience that his sister did a couple of years ago. I will also agree with what everyone else has said that at that age skiing is very much more focused on playing and having fun. They get tired on skis very quickly and as you will know this leads to grumpiness or complete refusal to comply.
Next is a combination of your childs age and when you are looking to go. December is very early in the season. The snow is often un-reliable on the lower slopes, it can be very cold and horrible for little ones. Easter is generally a much better time for little ones and beginners. The weather is much warmer, the sun is generally shinning and it's much more pleasant when standing around during lessons. So while the idyllic vision of a white xmas in the mountains can be alluring, the reality is something quite different in many cases.
In terms of the resorts that have come up in your searches, these are all decent resorts for December as they are high altitude. Val d'Isere has some gentle runs at village level and high up, but skiing from the top to the village in the valley is very tricky in Val and I would expect beginners to get the lift down the mountain.
Here is a little vid of our youngest last year at 2 and a half. He just did an hour with me each afternoon on the nursery slopes and it got no further than him sliding down while I held him. This was at Easter too. http://youtube.com/v/BjE0iJPH27I
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@FastCarver74, that looks like fun, and I have a similar video of my 2 year old grand-daughter doing "hands on knees" down a nursery slope. But that requires a competent (and strong) parent. Not possible for a beginner. Last Christmas I took my then 3 year old (nearly 4) grand-daughter up a nursery slope drag lift and I can't say I enjoyed it much, though by then she could do competent snow plough turns (when she had a mind to). I am a competent skier but was haunted by visions of my falling on top of her.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Try ski2 in Champoluc.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Alpes d'Huez is a great resort for beginners, it has lots of nice easy runs with great access. It also has lots of non skiing things to do, as a beginner you might not want to do 8 hours a day skiing around the mountain especially with the little one.
The other thing I would strongly recommend is, take a few lessons in a snow dome over here just to get the very basics. You'll make more of your holiday that way rather than spending the first couple of days on the nursery slopes.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Westendorf might be worth a look. It is fairly low but they have excellent snowmaking and the nursery slopes are right in the middle of the village, you may not have metres of powder but machine snow is no big deal for learning on. You might find it less freezing than a high French resort in December and, as had been said before on here, Austrian slopes are mostly grass, even thin cover will give good piste conditions for learning. Much of France is on rock or gravel and you need much more depth of snow to get a good base.
The skischools do kids club in a "snow playground" area and start from age 3 so that is more kindergarten than formal instruction, the lifts are also very child friendly, there is a learner chair with magnetic seats which the smallest kids get "stuck" onto using ski school vests so there is no panic taking wriggling kids on a lift. i haven't skied there with kids but have talked to quite a few families who love the place and the ski-schools.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
these have an excellent reputation for family skiing:
@pam w, yeah I did the drag lift thing with my daughter the previous year when she was 4. Luckily last year when she was 5 she could do it on her own. I was also amazed during that week how much she came on. The difference between 4&5 in terms of the strength and learning ability was amazing. I guess the concentration threshold is higher and they take more in. The week last year where the video was shot was all about him getting familiar with skis on his feet. He loved it though and didn't want to stop each day. It really helped having the older sibling as he wants to do what ever his big sister is doing!
I also can't get over the emotion I experience, from seeing them enjoy being on skis too.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
Much of France is on rock
probably the majority isn't. The highest pistes in the Espace Diamant are all on pasture. I agree Easter is better than December, though.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'd look to go somewhere with a lower cost pass or free beginner lifts. There's little point spending the best part of €250-300 for a 6 day pass, but only touch 20% of the slopes. Look to see if any of the family friendly TOs offer reduced lift passes for beginners.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Look to see if any of the family friendly TOs offer reduced lift passes for beginners.
some offer deals with ski hire, lessons and passes all thrown in.
Risoul is the best resort for young families imho. High, snowsure skiing, free beginner lifts, great sweet shop in the high street and easy skiing from the top of the mountain.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
There is little point choosing a resort which offers hundreds of km of world-class skiing if you haven't learned to ski well enough to enjoy it. You're just paying for a lot of terrain that you can't use, and you'll also find prices in resort for food and drink are correspondingly higher. I'm talking about places like Val d'Isere and the Three Valleys here.
There are some good suggestions above for smaller resorts. Austria in particular has lots of beginner-friendly villages which are inexpensive and offer all the terrain you could possibly need for your first holiday. The same goes for the smaller resorts in France. Stay away from the big areas would be my advice - all you need is a good ski-school, some English speaking child care, a few gentle blue runs and a nice place to stay.
I would suggest Les Gets, based on my experience. We went there with Ski Esprit when the kids were 3,5, and 7 and had excellent child care and for the kids, a great first skiing experience. I've heard that Ski Famille, who do something similar, are also good (disclaimer - based only on chatting to other parents on the chairlift).
Les Gets has won awards for its family friendliness and is really geared up for small beginners with a bubble to the nursery slopes, several magic carpets and a whole area of green runs just for beginners and adults accompanied by children. The bonus with Christmas week is that Santa and his elves are in the village and there are trips to his workshop. Even the lifties are extra helpful when little ones are trying to get on.
It's not high (1200 in the village, 1600 at the top), so the big issue with cold that you would have somewhere like Val D or Avoriaz isn't there and its a beautiful village to potter around in if you don't want to ski. It also has easy to reach dedicated tobogganing slopes. and the local ski area is all gentle mountain terrain that is pasture in the summer so no horrible terrifying drop offs for little ones to stray close to. We had been to Tignes previously so I have other resort experience to compare it to !
It's north facing so despite being low, its usually snow sure even early season, last year being the exception (but then that was the case even in some of the higher resorts). We've been there for the last 8 years at Christmas and only last year encountered any kind of snow issue.
From the cost perspective, you won't need the PdS pass, just the local area one, which is about E190 for 6 days for an adult. Saving the best to last, possibly the most important reason to go there is that it's a short transfer from Geneva - just over an hour. Little ones on a 3 hour plus transfer coach is not fun! (especially when they decide to develop travel sickness for the first time...)
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@telford_mike,
Quote:
There is little point choosing a resort which offers hundreds of km of world-class skiing if you haven't learned to ski well enough to enjoy it. You're just paying for a lot of terrain that you can't use, and you'll also find prices in resort for food and drink are correspondingly higher. I'm talking about places like Val d'Isere and the Three Valleys here.
@Wrekingirl,
Quote:
I would suggest Les Gets, based on my experience. We went there with Ski Esprit
Both spot on IMO. Ski Esprit has a wide range of 'deals' for families. Currently huge difference in price between 19/20 Dec departure vs 26/27 Dec, ie the latter about double price.
Personally I'd wait until there's more snow on the ground before booking. Or at very least a weather forecast predicting 2 or 3 days snow at least. A snowsport resort with no snow is worse than a pub with no beer.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Livigno in Italy. Lots of easy slopes right by the village so you can retreat back to your accomodation easily if necessary. Generally cheaper than France and duty free. Quite a high altitude. Downside - long transfer.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@New2Ski_ldn, Loads of good advice above. Just to add my ha'penny worth:
Small resort is a better idea than a big one, probably.
Avoid school hols unless you have no choice. Cheaper and less crowded.
You mention late December. Unless you have to go in Dec, then I'd strongly suggest you aim for late March instead. Longer days and much, much warmer (probably).
I wouldn't recommend Val d'Isere. Avoriaz might be good in some ways (but it's big and high).
Just to lob a hand grenade into the mix, would you consider leaving the three-year old behind? They only gain a certain amount out of skiing at such an early age and then you could have a grown-up holiday and learn to ski for next year when you'd be better equipped to help your child.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@foxtrotzulu, Agree with you - at that age the 3 year old won't get much out of it and Mum and Dad probably won't get much skiing in. Not always easy to find a friend or relative that can accomodate such a request though.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
Livigno in Italy.
+1. Great VFM, excellent beginner terrain, Italian grub, really snowsure. Transfer is fairly long but better than it used to be and shorter than a typical transfer to say Val D'Isere.
Ellmau, Austria is another I would look at.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Serfaus Austria
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
[quote="Pruman"]
Quote:
Ellmau, Austria is another I would look at.
That's where I thought. I know it's a big area, but absolute beginners can get away with no lift pass for half the week as the village slopes are/were free to use. Although last time I was there the village lifts were all T-bars - which I know can be tricky.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
3 year old love holidays in the snow providing someone is prepared to put the time in with them.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@pam w, +1. Personal experience suggests that if you make the effort now and they'll be baying for snow holidays for years to come. Don't make the effort and they may not enjoy it at all.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Let's hope the OP returns to read all this excellent advice!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My vote is for Risoul. Great resort for beginners. Nice long green runs. Nice blues to progress on to. Nice family feel to resort.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@dobby, Are you really suggesting that children who start skiing at the age of four or five instead of three are significantly less likely to become keen skiers?
@pam w, I'm not sure anyone is suggesting they wouldn't enjoy it, just that there is a finite amount of skiing/learning/benefit they are likely to get out of it at that age compared to when they are just a year or two older.
@foxtrotzulu, no. Sorry for any confusion. What I am saying is that once you are on a skiing holiday, if you make the effort with the kids it pays off (did with my two, but I have no proper control group with which to make a comparison)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@foxtrotzulu, I don't think we disagree. 4 of 5 years old is a FAR better age to start skiing than 3, for most British kids who just get a week or so each year. But 3 year olds can have a ball doing toboganning, building snowmen, making snow-castles or even, in the case of one of my 3 year old grand-daughters, discovering that her grandmother's big snow shovel, pressed upside down into the snow, makes a shape just like a bum. Having a little go at skiing can be another activity to spend ten minutes on, now and again.
All this presupposes parents actually want to spend holiday time with their kids, of course.
@pam w, I don't spend any time with my kids skiing. Well, I sit on a lift with them. They go down the hill twice as quickly as me. And I meet with them to get on the lift.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Our younger daughter went on her first skiing holiday at three and a half, the elder one was 5. Elder daughter was always the stronger skier, I think because her younger sister started a bit too soon.
Either way however, they both loved skiing, and 25 years later they have a skill that they'll keep for life. Age 3 is probably not perfect, but they will learn at that age, albeit slowly.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
And I meet with them to get on the lift
you mean they wait for you? How terribly kind.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@pam w, only to taunt me about how slow I am...and I have the money, too, so got to be nice to dad sometimes
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
I agree Easter is better than December, though.
How terribly kind.
