 Poster: A snowHead
|
HI
Often the prices of boots from an online retailer seem very attractive compared to the in store prices (and often the choice etc etc) however the fitting process of heating the boot inner and then having it "mould" to your foot in store is something that clearly cant happen with distance selling!
Is this heat moulding something that happens anyway when you wear the boot from your foots heat, or are you just forgoing this more detailed fit option?
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
You'll find a lot of detail on why biting the bullet and going to a shop is a better option by searching the forums, but I'll give you a heads up in that, put simply, even the "right boot" can feel totally different once it's been moulded.
I would guess for some boots this will happen naturally but could take hours and hours of discomfort and leading you to believe it is the wrong boot during that 'natural' process, and eventually you'll end up going to see someone who can fit them and after paying that person you won't have saved any money!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
something that happens anyway when you wear the boot from your foots heat
|
Generally not. There were some systems that did work like this but not very well and I think they've been discontinued.
You are foregoing:
- making sure the boots are the correct size, shape and spec for your feet
- detailed fitting to your feet (unless your feet are the size and shape of skis boots)
Given that boots should get you ~120 days of skiing and that a good boot fitting will make enormous differences to your skiing pleasure, isn't it worth doing it properly?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@Peter Groom, Really, don't even get tempted, its not worth it and is a total false economy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Fitting process is so much more than headitng the boot inner ... Finding the right boot is more important and here the services of a boot fitter comes into play. You can buy nice boots online and hope they would work (they may even feel like a perfect fit at the begining) or go to a reputable boot fitter and get a pair that works FOR YOU (although at the begining they may feel a bit too tight). The difference between skiing with boots selected for you and just any boots - is well worth the extra expense.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 20-10-15 9:36; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Q isn't it worth doing it properly?
A It is.
Clearly this is an area that the Online retailer cant compete in?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Buying boots online is much like buying a suit sold as small/medium/large without trying it on. Sure, you might get lucky and it might be a perfect fit for you but chances are it will need alterations to fit properly. OK, you might save a few quid but chances are you'll then need to pay someone to fit them for you. And no, the heat from your foot isn't enough to properly mould them - wouldn't be much point having them moulded if it was as you'd have re-moulded them away from the best fit by the end of the first day's skiing!
A lot depends why you're looking to buy boots.
- If money's tight and it's just because everyone else is doing it I wouldn't bother. You could spend £££ on a pair that don't fit very well and hurt your feet. A pair of hire boots are cheaper and if they also hurt you can go back to the shop and swap to different makes/models till you find something that works. To keep up my suit analogy a suit hired from Moss Bros will fit better than the blind online purchase.
- If you've got the money and just want everyone to see you have the latest gear in the hours skiing between getting up and lunch/the hour between lunch and starting apres, sure got for it. Fit isn't that important in this case. Sure, if you want everyone to see you're wearing a Hugo Boss suit, buy a suit with Hugo Boss plastered across the back in diamante.
- If you want your own boots to get the best fit and help move your skiing on then I'd bite the bullet and buy/fit your boots at one of the recommended boot fitters, either here or in resort - then hide the credit card receipt. Yes it will cost more but places like solutions4feet and ProFeet (for example) will start by looking at your feet, then recommend the best boots for them, based on how long/wide/tall/square/etc they are. They'll then heat the shells and streatch/shrink these where necessary to account for the dents and bumps in each of your feet, then move on to moulding the liners, and then the footbeds. This is your bespoke suit, made to measure with a nip here and a tuck there to hide the belly, cover up rather than highlight your butt, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message received.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Peter Groom, if the marginal saving is equal or more than the cost of fitting a pair of boots that the physical retailer hasn't sold, well, maybe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There're stores. Then there're boot fitters. The two are not the same. In fact, until you find a good store with a decent boot fitter, you may want to save your money after all.
Your next question need to be "where do I find a good boot fitter near me?"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
Clearly this is an area that the Online retailer cant compete in?
|
Some people have very straightforward feet and/or know they get on very well with certain lasts. They can probably get away with buying on-line and doing a liner mould with the help of their domestic oven or rice and microwave approach. The rest of us, having made mistakes in the past, search out a bootfitter we feel we can trust.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
What does a good boot fitter do that a bad one doesn't?
Don't they all do like you can see on youtube; take the inner out, check for right space begin the heel, check for any pressure points, lean forwards so toes move back, wear them for quite a while etc.?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I wouldn't buy a pair of shoes or trainers without trying them on for some first, so the thought of buying ski boots on line is a no, no, no. Thats comes from someone who all his ski life has been after a few hours in agony without taking them off for a while. Decided last year to leave my trusted boots of 8 years behind but which still used to give me grief. Thought modern fitting may help. wrong!!Spent hours with great and patient bootfitters in Kitzbuhel but the end result all efforts and various boots killed my feet and was in discomfort for a long time after I went home.
Result - my battered blown boots which have had alsorts of moulded soles over the years are back on the trip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Wouldn't it be like anything else? Different interpretations of size? I've ordered M shirts online that are massive and others that I can't get into.
Apparently, as well as overall foot size there are differences in tarsal length, toe length, height of arches, width of ankle . . .
Having said that my feet go numb in my boots. So @jedster, do you know anyone I can trust in the South of England?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@henzerani, Colin at Solutions for feet if Bicester isn't too far away.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Ta @under a new name, just been reading his advice on another thread.
It's probably a thing you do so rarely that making the journey is worth it. In fact making the journey could make replacing your boots rarer still.
I've always done it for running shoes and even for walking boots and the first pair of ski boots were fitted by a chap in St Anton and were wonderful for years. But this pair do make the bottom of my feet go numb and then really hurt. So maybe I was unlucky or maybe it was the big chain problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I tried Colin at Solutions for feet as well years ago, alas not through lack of trying on his behalf I might add, no change on the cramping front. My boots have always been comfortable until after a few hours I get the cramping which I obviously address. Have to say that the couple of years I have noticed at the end of the trip as we descend to the airport etc my lower legs have swollen considerbaly which was a worry, but on both occassions a visit to the Dr stated nothing to worry about. I know in the cold etc your feet and ankles can swell but as i'm in my mid 50's is this something that gets exaggerated with age.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
If you can wait till the end of the season you can make big savings on a fitted pair. I got mine in a shop fitted for £180 reduced from £360 in June.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Themasterpiece wrote: |
What does a good boot fitter do that a bad one doesn't?
Don't they all do like you can see on youtube; take the inner out, check for right space begin the heel, check for any pressure points, lean forwards so toes move back, wear them for quite a while etc.? |
Assuming your feet are "functionally perfect", meaning there's no flat arch, no pigeon toe, no knock knee etc., yes, you can do as illustrated on youtube: put in padding where there's too much space and punch out the shell where it creates pressure point.
But for 1/2 the population that has one or more of the anomalies of the feet, correcting it through boot fitting will make the difference of poor ski control vs good ski control.
Boot fitting is like barbers. Everyone knows how to cut some hair off with a pair of scissor. It's knowing WHERE (and how much) to cut that differentiate a good one from the bad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
abc - love your barbers 'comparison', sums it up perfectly.
Or for those of us with problem feet - "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Themasterpiece wrote: |
What does a good boot fitter do that a bad one doesn't?
Don't they all do like you can see on youtube; take the inner out, check for right space begin the heel, check for any pressure points, lean forwards so toes move back, wear them for quite a while etc.? |
You'd think, but how many fitters (potentially on minimum wage, on a busy, busy weekend) go the 'easy route' of selling someone a boot a size or two too big? A fair amount of customers will have no idea of how a boot should feel fresh out the box in the shop. It's dead easy to get someone in and out in half an hour in a boot that's too big - it'll feel lovely in the shop! Slippers!
I reckon the shell check is less than a tenth of the battle; the trickier aspects are coaxing a customer who's only ever skied around in rental buckets into a boot the correct size and shape for them (and even worse, convincing experienced skiers who have skied all their life in a shell size or two big, that they should trust me and try something a bit smaller); in convincing and demonstrating to a customer the benefits of support/footbeds when all they see them as are added, costly, extras; in problem solving when a customer comes back with a bizarre issue; and in sorting those "problem customers" who have never skied in comfort on their life. There's no better feeling than allowing them to enjoy a pain-free holiday for the first time.
I've met so many people who've bought online, yet ended up spending more on modifications in order to get the boots working, than they would have getting them fitted properly in the first place. You can be sure most good fitters will charge a premium for their time to work on boots bought from elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@abc how many people get "the shell punched out" (what does that mean?) when getting boots fitted? I doubt half of the population (of boot buyers). I think in 90% of cases they show you a few boots and heat mould the liner/shell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
^ undoubtedly the 90% is true because there simply aren't that many good bootfitters out there. Doesn't mean you're getting a great result just because the Saturday boy in the chain store knows how long to turn the oven on for and has had an hour's training on the footbed machine.
The best result for your feet might be a smaller shell with a punch than a comfortable in the shop but sloppy on the hill boot but without an expert to spot it you'll never find out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Themasterpiece, I guess it depends on the store/fitter? In a more specialist shop, I bet/know far more than half will have some sort of shell work done, whether during the initial fit, or after a day or two's skiing. I also know that not to be the case in a 'less specialist' shop, where perhaps it is less than half, depending on the fitter. Also it could be argued that, in the right hands, a shell mould is pretty similar to a punch in some respects.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Themasterpiece wrote: |
| @abc how many people get "the shell punched out" (what does that mean?) when getting boots fitted? I doubt half of the population (of boot buyers). I think in 90% of cases they show you a few boots and heat mould the liner/shell. |
But 1/2 of the skiing population struggle to control their skis in anything less than perfectly groomed snow. My guess is 1/2 of those people would have a much better time on snow had they gotten a decent boot fitting by a competent boot fitter.
Some long times back, 90% of the population didn't get much school education. Doesn't mean that was not a good idea.
p.s.
"shell punch": put boot on the work bench, drive a little tool at the spot of the shell that cause pressure. Result, no more pressure!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Go to Colin at Solutions 4 Feet. I did. It was far from a cheap solution but was worth every penny. Ironically, the boots themselves I bought online at substantual discount as Colin had sold out of the boot he thought I should buy and after shell checking another boot that used the same Dynafit last. The real cost was the super duper Zip Fit liners which remain very comfortable despite a pretty sporty fit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@Peter Groom Ski boots are an investment which can make or break several very expensive holidays.
I suspect that every Snowhead has had that painful holiday where the hire boots rubbed and we came home with blisters and sore spots on feet and legs from hire boots. When you buy on-line without trying on then you have less chance of a good fit than in the hire shop.
My current boots, which have been good and comfortable, cost £260, from a very well known large store including custom footbeds and have lasted me for 82 days skiing so costing me just over £3.00 per day which has worked out at less than half the cost of hiring and a huge amount less than my alcohol spend.
I am just about to replace my trusty boots and the cost difference between buying discount online and from a trusted and reputable bootfitter, while significant, is probably less than the cost of a good dinner for two in the Alps.
@Peter Groom well fitted boots are the best investment that you can ever make.
Remember while you can take a hired pair back to the shop every day to change you are stuck with your online purchase.
If you want to save money there are better places to save it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Peter Groom,
So much excellent advice from these guys, and some others: @MarkFinSoup, @Dave of the Marmottes, @abc
Boot fitting is a real skill. Even a cheap skiing holiday is very expensive — so getting good boots is worth every penny.
If you can, make a visit to Colin at www.solutions4feet.com. He sorted yet another of my skiing friends out last week and did a fantastic fitting of new boots for her. He judged what she needed just right, and sold her just what she needed.
I have to respectfully disagree with this comment:
| JamesN wrote: |
| If you can wait till the end of the season you can make big savings on a fitted pair. I got mine in a shop fitted for £180 reduced from £360 in June. |
This is a recipe for disaster. Ski shops have to buy boots in bulk at the start of the season, and they are not sale or return. A good shop will buy a whole variety of sizes and volumes. So long, short, thin, wide, high foot volume, low foot volume. Then there are men's boots, women's boots, different styles, colours, flexibility, brands etc etc.
Buy the end of the season, they will be left with a whole rag-tag selection of "left-over" boots, and they just want to get rid of them ASAP, because next year they will have the new season's stock. Result: they will just sell you anything they've got, and you will be very, very lucky indeed if it's the right pair for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| PeDaSp wrote: |
I have to respectfully disagree with this comment:
| JamesN wrote: |
| If you can wait till the end of the season you can make big savings on a fitted pair. I got mine in a shop fitted for £180 reduced from £360 in June. |
This is a recipe for disaster. Ski shops have to buy boots in bulk at the start of the season, and they are not sale or return. A good shop will buy a whole variety of sizes and volumes. So long, short, thin, wide, high foot volume, low foot volume. Then there are men's boots, women's boots, different styles, colours, flexibility, brands etc etc.
Buy the end of the season, they will be left with a whole rag-tag selection of "left-over" boots, and they just want to get rid of them ASAP, because next year they will have the new season's stock. Result: they will just sell you anything they've got, and you will be very, very lucky indeed if it's the right pair for you. |
I agree to a degree. Maybe recipe for disaster is a bit too strong, but quite likely a recipe for frustration. I've been there. Fortunately for me, the boot fitter was a very ethical one. He simply said "Look, I'm out of most of my stock. What I got left won't fit you as well as I can do with a better stock. I don't want to short change you".
But, if you're sure of what you want. Or can trust the fitter not to compromise you with left over stock, then yes, buying at end of season might work out with a good saving.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@abc, You have made some very good points.  And of course some folks are on a very tight budget, and being able to buy a great pair of boots at a real discount price is a big plus.
There are some excellent tutorials on the web all about finding the right boot sizes and how to fit boots. You can also research the different boot manufactures and see what fits they specialise in etc. e.g.: wide foot etc. That way you can arm yourself with the knowledge you need to ensure you get the right boot.
So you could visit the end of season sales, and see what boots they have in your length size, and flex. Then you could spend some time on the web and return in the afternoon or next day, to narrow down your selection. Then it's about ensuring the fitter knows what they are doing, and you don't have some summer job kid doing it. Then ensure that you go at a time when the fitter is not busy — so not Sat or Sun. Wed or Thurs PM best normally.
You don't have to buy the boot, just because the fitter has spent time with you. Try 2 or 3 shops. And don't forget to haggle! If they want €200 EUR offer them €75!
And remember, for every ethical fitter, there will be two who will sell you whatever they have left just to get the double commission the store owner is offering to get rid of end of season stock. I know THREE skiing friends who have suffered this fate, and had to end up dumping the boots and buying new ones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Timc,
| Quote: |
I am just about to replace my trusty boots and the cost difference between buying discount online and from a trusted and reputable bootfitter, while significant, is probably less than the cost of a good dinner for two in the Alps.
|
Why are you replacing boots after 82 days? Got a new ski suit?
Boots (or at least, their liners) should last ~120 days. My current ones, cos the shell's so just right are 300 days in...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
So @jedster, do you know anyone I can trust in the South of England?
|
CEM is very well recommended around here although I have no personal experience.
I like the guys at Ski Bartlett.
@Scarlet Fez,
| Quote: |
I wouldn't buy a pair of shoes or trainers without trying them on for some first
|
Actually running shoes rather illustrates the point I was making in my previous post. For several years now I have been using successive versions of the same Asics shoe. They make minor upgrades every year or so and change colours twice a year but the basic design (last, pronation control) is the same. I am entirely happy ordering my size on line from whoever is selling them cheapest, potentially last seasons model. But that is because I know they will work for my feet.
Bizarrely the best fitting ski boots I ever had were the first I bought and were on sale in a shop window (I was working a season and had very little money). I walked in, tried them on and walked out with them. No fitting required. I know now that the last just happened to be very well suited to the shape of my feet. Subsequently every other boot has needed some work to get right and I believe in good boot fitters after some painful experiences. It was blind luck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@henzerani, Down south you've got Profeet in Fulham, they fitted my wifes boots for her last year and they're well know for a good service. Closer for you is Edge and Wax, again a good rep for fitting boots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@jedster, hah!
That's exactly what I can't do as I had done that for a few years with an ASICS model and then the last pair I bought felt rather different (they'd widened the last) and a year later reviews were all over the shop about how good/bad the radically new design was.
So I had to go back to basics and now have a very nice Saucony pair, which I will replace with the identical model if I can find some.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| @henzerani, Down south you've got Profeet in Fulham, they fitted my wifes boots for her last year and they're well know for a good service. Closer for you is Edge and Wax, again a good rep for fitting boots. |
My experience is that the service at Edge and Wax is different from what CEM or Profeet offer. They have a large range of boots, and will try and sort something that fits, put a decent footbed together for you, and if you have fairly standard feet or have a good idea of what you want then they will probably get you sorted. CEM and Profeet are operating at another level, and the way they price what they do reflects that, aiming to get a 100% perfect boot with as much modification as is required to get it to that.
That said, all of the above are dramatically better than what you get at most of the big chains and their version of boot fitting, which can be very variable in quality to say the least. Hasn't stopped me and others getting decent boots at a good price through them, but they can only be described as decent boots, not perfect or in some cases even particularly good. No problem for someone on their second or third week of skiing, but once you start making significant progress a well fitted boot from someone like CEM or Profeet does make a difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm looking to buy boots before the start of this upcoming season, having rented for the last 10 trips, I'd love to ski without pain for once.
Does anyone know of any good bootfitters on the Island of Ireland?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@debtors#2, no idea about Ireland, but if you know where you go for your skiing this year, one option is to do this in a resort. The advantage - boots could be fine-tunned during that week. If you go Tignes, there are a couple of good bootfitters there - I got mine from Nevada Sports (Boots Fit'Tigne) and regret I did not go seeing them on my first trip to Tignes 10 years ago ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
debtors#2, CEM has recommended someone in Belfast in the past, they may not be working in the same shop now though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
