 Poster: A snowHead
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This report from BBC News sums up recent avalanches and fatalities in France and Germany. They report that seven have died in France, and three in the avalanche near the ice rink disaster at Bad Reichenhall last Monday - an area where exceptionally deep and dense snowfall took place.
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The Zell valley has snow throughout the region with snowdrifts blocking roads and railway lines.
"Many thousands of our holiday makers had their journeys disrupted by the weather," Katie Joly, the manager for Crystal holidays in France and Switzerland, told the BBC News website.
"Some flights had to be cancelled and others delayed but fortunately all our clients eventually completed their journey." |
Was your holiday affected?
The good news, of course, is that snow conditions have now been transformed - promising great sking for those zipping out for the quiet slopes of low season.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lets not complain about to much snow >> Bring it on 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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> This report from BBC News sums up recent avalanches and fatalities in France...
Information copied from my website. Very poor Auntie.
A couple of things concern me: The Beeb is increasingly using Blogs, the Web etc as a source of news without, it would seem, verifying what is written. In the case of two recent articles published on the BBC website, one of which they made a reference to a "French website" they have miscopied or conflated incidents or I have updated information once I have had the chance to speak to more people involved. Often a clearer picture only transpires some hours or days after an incident.
Now what the Beeb does is their business and I don't really see that the world's leading news organisation and a small specialist ski website target the same audience but this causes problems for me. Whereas readers of PH may be expected to have a certain level of understanding of incidents that information is not necessarily in a format that can be digested by a non-specialized audience.
These are just a couple of comments I would like to make.
David
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 7-01-06 20:17; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidof, They should really credit you as their source, it's not nice 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I see this as a point of concearn, no surprise, i guess. Opinion or news published on any site should credit the appropriate source or magazine review. Seems the Beeb arn't the only guilty party.
Oooooh, i wouldn't let it lie. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OK, there's a live accusation of plagiarism but we don't know the BBC words involved and PisteHors' words involved.
Let's get the respective bits of text on this page and weigh up the evidence.
davidof?
The BBC, for any faults, is a pretty accountable organisation and we can probably get a comment from the BBC Online editors once the evidence is on the record.
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Now what the Beeb does is their business and I don't really see that the world's leading news organisation and a small specialist ski website target the same audience but this causes problems for me.
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davidof in your defence, what the Beeb does IS your business if they're fiddling with your business! Civilserpent it's not just sloppy, plagarism can be downright illegal.
If I were in your shoes davidof I'd be looking into whether it's a breach of copywrite and if so then sue the Beeb's pants off. It's not just about attributation, it's also about you being able to control the distribution of your work and the price you want to charge for the effort you expended to research and create the news story. I am happy to state as a fact that the Beeb spends a significant proportion of it's revenue (i.e. taxpayers money) protecting it's own material, so don't let them be hypocritical with other people's intellectual property (especially yours!).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Let's not get carried away. When was the BBC last sued for unauthorised use of copyright material? We need to build this thread on the basis of evidence, not hype and extrapolation.
Relatively little journalism is purely original. It's like a big sea of facts, quotes, and everything else. Everyone dips in and builds their stories - attributing sources as appropriate. There are general rules of 'fair use'. It's definitely courteous and proper to attribute original sources, and required to seek permissions as appropriate.
davidof's made the allegation, and it'll be really interesting to see exactly what the BBC wrote and what PisteHors wrote.
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| Manda wrote: |
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Now what the Beeb does is their business and I don't really see that the world's leading news organisation and a small specialist ski website target the same audience but this causes problems for me.
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davidof in your defence, what the Beeb does IS your business if they're fiddling with your business! Civilserpent it's not just sloppy, plagarism can be downright illegal.
If I were in your shoes davidof I'd be looking into whether it's a breach of copywrite and if so then sue the Beeb's pants off. It's not just about attributation, it's also about you being able to control the distribution of your work and the price you want to charge for the effort you expended to research and create the news story. I am happy to state as a fact that the Beeb spends a significant proportion of it's revenue (i.e. taxpayers money) protecting it's own material, so don't let them be hypocritical with other people's intellectual property (especially yours!). |
its my business as well seeing as i pay for it.. find out who did it and ill have them sacked immediatly 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| davidof, They should really credit you as their source, it's not nice :( |
I contacted the BBC today to raise the concerns I had above. In the two stories I've mentioned (thanks to DG for posting the links or I would not have seen them) the information came to me from a number of sources including some officials keen to get the message of avalanche danger over to an English speaking audience, witnesses, rescuers and in a couple of cases two of the survivors contacted me later with some corrections and I'm currently waiting for a third survivor to send some information where he has disputed what the rescue services and witnesses have said. I try to collate this information to present a balanced view of the rewards and dangers of off-piste skiing and boarding.
A summary of the winter's French avalanche incidents is also published in the fall issue of The Avalanche Review - this is the journal of the American Avalanche Association. It may then get included in other papers or articles.
It is good that the BBC takes an interest ski and snowboard safety and this would suit the agenda of the officials that contacted me. News organisations also have a right of fair use and to quote from other news sources. Someone told me that the local TV news in San Francisco refered to the Courchevel report. The BBC, quite rightly, has a lot of trust and respect. My concern was that it was not clear to a reader where the BBC was quoting from a web source, what that source was and where they had gone to primary sources.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wasn't there a time when the Beeb would only use as a news item something which had at least two 'reliable' sources ? Their increasing 'lifting' of items without such minimal verification does them no favours - compounded by the lack of crediting the original source(s). Auntie ain't what she used to be. Bring back evening dresses and DJs for newsreaders, I say.
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George Alagiah would look very silly in an evening dress kuwait_ian, 
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