 Poster: A snowHead
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Residents Secondaire page here http://www.compagniedumontblanc.co.uk/en/lift-passes/rs
Changes: Unlimited adds unlimited access to Mont Blanc Evasion (YAY!) (need to start from Megeve or St Gervais) - reduction in Verbier days from 8 to 6
And a little more expensive I think, again...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yep, another €40 price increase.
€625 each in 2011, €740 each this year.
Deflation? What deflation?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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But loads more territory?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Has the Courmayeur extension process changed slightly? Last season I went to the Courmayeur ticket office to get activated, but this year says you have to go to a CMB desk first.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@snowdave, looks like it. We pick up at Montenvers anyway so I hope they're smart enough to activate at same time.
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A quick review of prices per couple, residents secondaires, bought at earliest and cheapest prices:$$2011 1256
2011 €1,256
2012 €1,326
2013 €1,364
2014 €1,444
2015 €1,482
In 2012 I think we had unlimited Verbier, now down to 6 days. A whopping increase of 18% in 5 years. And with no notable improvements in Chamonix service itself. Replacing the Plan Joran chair has been a modest but not notable improvement.
I would be curious to know the price changes in other areas...
To the extent that we are now considering whether it's actually worth it or not... given e.g. rapid card options...and how often we ski elsewhere.
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@under a new name, I think that you are quite correct that the more these things cost then it makes you stop and consider whether you want to continue or whether you look at different options; so even though you might end up spending the same,or even a little bit more you have options to ski in different locations.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My recollection is that the Verbier unlimited had to be stopped because the Cham pass worked out 15% cheaper than the Verbier pass, so all the Verbier locals bought a Cham pass instead!
Although the price increase seems punchy (3.4% annual CAGR vs 1% inflation), its not like CDA is wildly profiteering; over the same period profits are essentially flat and capital expenditure/investment is up about 10% (2015 capex forecast to be 13% ahead of 2011).
Where the season pass annoys me is the absence of family deals - I pay almost as much for my 2 kids (5 & 8 ) as I do for my wife and I; in contrast the "punter" pass includes very good kids deals.
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@under a new name, I assume yours is a resident's pass. My early bird season unlimited is €938 which represents only a €27 'loyalty' saving. Ho hum... I'll be buying it anyway 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Pamski, given that we have to be in Cham for Xmas and New Year (alternative "destinations" are either not at home attending other peoples' parties or booked, I mean, ... really ... quite out of order) then that's 16 days out if the required 16 or so to make it worthwhile so we'll do it this year. Also, having the pre-paid pass does mean that going up for a token few runs to get some fresh air is fine.
@snowdave, yep, that's what we heard as well. Also, Televerbier and Compagnie des Alpes shareholdings were separated (can't recall who owned what of who) which I'm sure had an influence.
TBH though, I'm not sure I agree with you that CDA is not profiteering. The investment in Chamonix at least as far as one could see in terms of kit had been somewhat woeful in recent years and I seem to recall that our annual pass in 2007 was about €450 each (admittedly no Verbier and no Courmayeur but I refer m'learned friends to the argument over territory above).
I also have to question just how much of a contribution annual/seasonal passes make to the revenues. Actually, I think the question is the marginal contribution of seasonal/annual passes sold to non-seasonaires as that's the market that CMB are testing the elasticity of. And I think they're getting close to the "elastic limit". Which to my mind is a bit dumb.
The winter after next, we could easily make a very rational decision that we'd get Chamonix Rapid cards for when we're around CHX and Monterosa season passes and still spend less money. That said, I pine for the days when the OH and her family got free Monterosa season passes...
First world problems, eh??? I am just very, very fecking lucky that I'm in a position where this is something that I have to think about it at all!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The val d Aosta pass includes unlimited verbier and a free kid under 8 for each adult.
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| Quote: |
First world problems, eh??? I am just very, very fecking lucky that I'm in a position where this is something that I have to think about it at all!
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Yep, me too. I think my Espace Diamant season pass last year, advance purchase, was 382 euros. I don't make much use of the "free" days in other places. I'm impressed with the investment; at least one completely new lift every year since 2002 I think, and at least three major chairlift upgrades too. It goes up each year but my OAP winter fuel payment, thanks to the UK's completely crazy benefits system, more than covers the cost. 
Prices not out for this coming season yet. But it's a payment I never begrudge. I do like being able to pop out any time without agonising about "if I wait another 20 minutes I can get a half day pass" or feeling guilty about giving up swiftly if conditions deteriorate.
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You know it makes sense.
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@under a new name, Just been pointed out to me that this season the Verbier pass is only free on the annual unlimited not on the season unlimited (don't know about the residents ones).
So they've added Evasion, removed two days from Verbier and, for the season pass folk, added a 50% cost. Lovely 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Eeeek, I’d missed that! That would really wee wee me off if I was there this winter – I used quite a few of the free days in Verbier last winter, especially at the start of the season when Cham was mostly closed. That’s a bit harsh.
Text from here: http://www.compagniedumontblanc.fr/Marketing/brochures/hiver16/avantages/Acces-Verbier-GB.pdf
For season lift pass: (50% discount on Verbier 4 Vallées day pass for any MONT BLANC Unlimited Season holder limit on 6 days in winter season only upon presentation of the coupon
For annual lift-passes : (6 days free on winter season for any MONT BLANC Unlimited Annual Skipass holder only upon presentation of the coupon
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yup - snuck that one in didn't they? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@MadMountainMan, hmmph. It's not hugely surprising, but disappointing nonetheless.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@under a new name, CDA makes about a 4% net margin (and a 4% return on equity), which has declined steadily since 2010. This is not indicative of profiteering. I accept that it is is impossible to tell whether Chamonix gets 'exploited' in some way within that and we get disproportionately ripped off (CDA is obviously a very broad group, so these numbers mix in the performance of their theme parks with a bunch of ski resorts), but fundamentally this appears to be an industry with relatively poor economics. Not to say it doesn't grate when I go over to Verbier and experience their vastly more sophisticated lift infrastructure!
@MadMountainMan, the residents and workers passes don't get stung in the same way on Verbier as they are only annual passes so its a slightly below-the-belt punch at those visitors who come often enough to justify a season pass without having a job or property in the valley.
However, in line with @pam w, and @under a new name, the first world problem of the 3% increase to the <€20 marginal daily cost of my 40+ days skiing is one that I'm glad to have!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yeah I'm not really grumbling; I'm going to be over there for 3 full months this years and would expect to be skiing at least 2/3 of the days so around €15 per day for me. And I notice that the Trois Vallees season pass is €1215 so the early bird price at least is competitive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@snowdave, interesting. I hadn't bothered to look at the numbers.
What would make me feel better would be if they liberated the restaurants from SERAC (the operator of almost all the mountain restaurants). €32 for a ropey sirloin is taking the wee wee.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@snowdave, from CDA's website "The Group's profitability is high for such capital intensive business lines (9% on average)"
It's always somewhat sobering to look at the management resumes. No-one who isn't French and a graduate of a Grande Ecole features. I should not be surprised but it just shows how moribund the French business / business education system is.
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Going out for the season I can't even begin to consider buying food on the mountain; I rely exclusively on carrying my own food and drink. Maybe permit myself three or four meals on mountain over the season.
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That's actually a lot cheaper than I expected. In comparison, just got back from a few days riding in Canada - a bike pass for Whistler (gives you access to 3 lifts) is 472EUR for the season when converted.
*Dancing because I'm going to qualify as a youth, but still have no idea where I'm going to live*
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Does anyone know what the current link is because the one above doesn't return any results anymore?!?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@snowdave, interesting. I hadn't bothered to look at the numbers.
What would make me feel better would be if they liberated the restaurants from SERAC (the operator of almost all the mountain restaurants). €32 for a ropey sirloin is taking the wee wee. |
with Serac comprising of mostly old cmb directors I would guess that they passed enough brown envelopes to ensure that wont happen 
I think the 6 days in verbier have to be non-consecutive as well, so going on a Saturday and sunday is out now!
But... they are making outrageous claims about the best snow park in Europe coming and now they've built a new brevent lift that for life of me I cant work out why its there...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@eddiethebus, The new lift is apparently to assist beginners to get up onto the plateau. Which is weird because most beginners/intermediates I know want to get off the "plateau" (ha ha ROFLMAO). The general opinion I hear is that it should be a Good Thing.
Best snow park? Who cares...
+1 re SERAC...
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@under a new name, I do think the new lift will be a nice addition - I've often been with beginner friends who wanted to get away from the baby slopes at the bottom or in Le Tour, but getting them up to that nice little bit at the top was very difficult. Up there you can get nervous beginners used to actually being on a mountain, without putting them on any remotely difficult.
Best snow park in Europe?! Pfft. Though I did enjoy the little play areas they were experimenting with in Le Tour last winter, and all the fun banks etc at GM. I've not seen the latest plans for the park areas, but it would need to be really dramatic developments from what is there now (if I found the areas fun and easy, it's really nothing a proper park rat would want to play with  )
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You know it makes sense.
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@under a new name
Thank you!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@nicoledan1, note that that link is for the annual pass not the season pass.
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Poster: A snowHead
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so are they proposing that the bit that runs round the back of the restaurant towards the bubble will be a beginner piste?
I actually really hope that the new snowpark is good, quite excited about it. Although from speaking to a couple of friends at cmb this year is more experimental, next summer they plan to move around some earth to shape it before the snow falls...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@eddiethebus, I believe that's the idea. I must confess that I can't get my head around the topography but they're moving a lot of earth around.
@MadMountainMan, I think...you can select Annual or Season once you get into the purchase section.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@MadMountainMan You can't actually purchase a season pass yet unless you've bought one previously (I think!) - when I tried and ended up going around in circles, I emailed and they said you can order as of the 10th or 11th of October if memory serves
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dunny#1, looks like you're right. We've always bought annuals if nothing else for wandering up to Montenvers/Brevent for lunch and a walk down.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name, I think they changed it too - it wasn't like that back in Sept! Certainly worth it, it's not that much when you consider what you get.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Dunny#1, I think you're right. I got the season for the first time last year and had to wait until November, if memory serves. This year I got to buy it sooner though, disappointingly, not that much cheaper. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Got ours, 30 euro off the early bird. Not much but better than a poke with a stick. Getting excited already.
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@jbob,
Ahh, so you have taken the Chamonix plunge again @jbob, ? Look forward to meeting up with you and Mrs@jbob, in January.
It will come as no surprise to you that I am most reluctant to visit Verbier next winter (me being a Yorkshireman and there being a 50% charge now). Shame that
Cheers.
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FAQ
