 Poster: A snowHead
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Just came across this link on the web for Michelin Cross Climate Tyres.
http://www.crossclimate.michelin.co.uk/
Apologies if already posted somewhere else.
I use winter tyres all year round , do low mileage in the summer and drive alot in the Alps in the winter.
Are these Michelin Cross Climates really that much better than winter tyres ?
Any comments much appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interesting. They get well reviewed...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for mentioning them, very interesting, I'll bear them in mind when my existing winter tyres are due for replacement. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I got really excited (how sad is that?) about not having to pay to change tyres spring and autumn only to be disappointed to find that they only go up to a 17" rim and although that apparently covers 76% of the market it leaves me in the 24% still having to change tyres.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 25-06-15 11:57; edited 1 time in total
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Goodyear vector go on 17" rim,
Most manufacturers have a 4 season M&S tyre like this in their line up now.
Though you might need to order them online from europe.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Unfortunately I need 19" rim and I can't any manufacturer who goes that big in this type of tyre so I'll just have to stick with changing them twice a year
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Does anyone know of any reasonable and cheaper M+S/all season alternatives? Not interested in full winters, with the associated costs of changing tyres/having to buy extra rims.
My current set of Kumho Ecsta's were around £60 a tyre for my Mini Cooper S but are definitely summer only. Not too fond of the £100 plus a tyre for both of the above mentioned and I am planning to self drive a couple of times over next season.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@AthersT, we have Hankook 4s on my wife's Polo, which may be cheaper than the others listed here. Been great in snow and seem fine also for the rest of the year.
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You know it makes sense.
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@altis, I will have a look at these, unfortunately the rims on my mini are 17's and the tyres required for them are normally quite pricey. Ideally 205/45/17 but will fit a thicker tyrewall (205/50/17).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@balernoStu, OOOoooo these look alright £70ish a tyre in 205/50/17. Cheers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Almost as good as a proper winter tyre in the cold
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I thought the were significantly better than summers but actually still quite a lot poorer than winters for something like stopping distance? Is that not right
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| AthersT wrote: |
| . Not too fond of the £100 plus a tyre for both of the above mentioned. |
With car tyres you defn get what you pay for.
Though proper 4 season M&S tyres can be found online for circa £60-80 a corner depending on dimensions.
Budget "monkey spunk tyres" are usually unsafe / waste of money (almost double the stopping distance).
It is the one thing that you really don't want to skimp on.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 25-06-15 13:38; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
With a smaller rim it often works out a similar price to those expensive, low-profile tyres - and you'll have free rims for next time!
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And a far better ride too!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Quote: |
With a smaller rim it often works out a similar price to those expensive, low-profile tyres - and you'll have free rims for next time!
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And a far better ride too! |
Define better pls - better comfort (probably, but not necesseraly), better price (yes), better conerning (no), better at highway speeds (no), better at breaking (no). The imporant variable is the car itself - SUV, small, family hatch etc makes a difference and the way it is driven. If you put high provile tyres on a performance oriented vehicle, it may not be 'better' as such - tyre profile is linked to how wide usualy tyre is - both braking and acceleration, cornering performance is affected, same as usage of a tyre.
Best advice - stick at least to manufacturer's prescribed sizes/limits.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| mooney058 wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Quote: |
With a smaller rim it often works out a similar price to those expensive, low-profile tyres - and you'll have free rims for next time!
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And a far better ride too! |
Define better pls - better comfort (probably, but not necesseraly), better price (yes), better conerning (no), better at highway speeds (no), better at breaking (no). The imporant variable is the car itself - SUV, small, family hatch etc makes a difference and the way it is driven. If you put high provile tyres on a performance oriented vehicle, it may not be 'better' as such - tyre profile is linked to how wide usualy tyre is - both braking and acceleration, cornering performance is affected, same as usage of a tyre.
Best advice - stick at least to manufacturer's prescribed sizes/limits. |
The wheels currently fitted may be larger than manufacturer's stock size, in which case downsizing is fine so long as the wheel still matches manufacturer's prescribed sizes. My own car is sold with 17" rims in the UK but in other countries 16" is standard. I bought second hand 16s for running winter tyres, putting the 17s back on in summer, works well.
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@mooney058,
from what I have read bigger wheels with wider/lower profile tyres is much more about the way they look than real benefits on cornering and breaking.
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| jedster wrote: |
@mooney058,
from what I have read bigger wheels with wider/lower profile tyres is much more about the way they look than real benefits on cornering and breaking. |
Not only the looks. Physical properties and handling are also different. It is less of an issue on a small car. It is more important if a car is bigger/heavier. My summer tyres come with 40 profile (low tyres), my winter tyres are 60 profile. This alone does not say much as 40 is 40% from how wide tyre is (in my case 275) giving the hight of the tyres's profile of 110mm. While my winter tyre's profile is 60, it is 60% from 225, giving profile's hight of 135mm. There is a noticible difference of how tyres/car behave. But it is well withing manufacturer's prescribed limits. Especialy in cornering, the difference is very noticable
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jedster wrote: |
@mooney058,
from what I have read bigger wheels with wider/lower profile tyres is much more about the way they look than real benefits on cornering and breaking. |
Agreed, as well as how chavvy you want to look and how much you wish to spend on repairing damage from potholes.
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I noticed that, as part of Michelin's potential bid for the new F1 tyre contract, they want to increase the wheel size from 13" to 18". There were mutterings to the effect that this would offer lower performance but it wasn't explained why.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| altis wrote: |
| I noticed that, as part of Michelin's potential bid for the new F1 tyre contract, they want to increase the wheel size from 13" to 18". There were mutterings to the effect that this would offer lower performance but it wasn't explained why. |
18" wheels will be heavier I guess? Even if they aren't much heaver the rim mass is further out, increasing angular momentum, which takes more power to accelerate.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks everyone for your comments and especially Timc for pointing out that they only go up to 17 " which also means they won't work for me either.
In the meantime I will just stick with my winter tyres all year round!
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As mentioned twice now, other brands do 4 season m&s tyres bigger than 17
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You know it makes sense.
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| AthersT wrote: |
| @altis, I will have a look at these, unfortunately the rims on my mini are 17's and the tyres required for them are normally quite pricey. Ideally 205/45/17 but will fit a thicker tyrewall (205/50/17). |
That will result in 20mm increase in diameter and cause your speedo to under read by nearly 4%.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| mooney058 wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Quote: |
With a smaller rim it often works out a similar price to those expensive, low-profile tyres - and you'll have free rims for next time!
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And a far better ride too! |
Define better pls - better comfort (probably, but not necesseraly), better price (yes), better conerning (no), better at highway speeds (no), better at breaking (no). The imporant variable is the car itself - SUV, small, family hatch etc makes a difference and the way it is driven. If you put high provile tyres on a performance oriented vehicle, it may not be 'better' as such - tyre profile is linked to how wide usualy tyre is - both braking and acceleration, cornering performance is affected, same as usage of a tyre.
Best advice - stick at least to manufacturer's prescribed sizes/limits. |
You have twisted what @foxtrotzulu said. The statement was "And a far better ride too!" There was no claim that it would improve the other areas you mention. In any case I disagree that a lower profile tyre would make a significant difference to the areas you mention. Your assertion that "tyre profile is linked to how wide usually tyre is" is only partly correct. The height of the sidewall is proportionate to the width i.e. the height of a 225 width tyre with a 40 profile is 225mm x 0.4 = 90mm. Most manufacturers keep the tyre width the same and when the profile varies so does the size of the rim. e.g. a 225/55 R18 is roughly the equivalent of 225/50 R19. The width has stayed exactly the same but the profile is lower and the rim size has increased to compensate.
In these circumstances acceleration and braking are not affected in the slightest. There may be a very small (and I mean very small) difference in cornering as there will be slightly more flex in the higher profile tyre but you'd have to be pushing the limits to notice anything.
Last year I swapped the 19s on my wifes Kuga for a set of 16s with big Nokian WR A3 235/60 R16. The standard tyre is 235/45 R19 . The new set-up is 6mm small diameter but that only equates to around 0.8% speedo error. There was next to zero difference in handling but a noticeable improvement in ride quality.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Gaza, manufacturers provide many tyre syze combinations. It is not only about keeping the same width. The same car can indeed be equiped with wheels/tyres of a different diameter, the rest - width, profile are adjusted accordingly and not only for a correct speed indication, but for handling too. The higher the profile is, tyre inflation can make difference on the same tyre (at speeds, while cornering). I too go from 19s on my summer setup to 17s for winter. How much you feel the improvement on ride quality is also affected by cars suspension! Tyres do play a role too, agree, but it will be different from one car to another. Where I do not agree is the performance of tyres - it can make a (dig) difference, depending on the type of a car, the driver, tyre inflation, speeds driven (on motorways).
I feel a difference in handling and a perceived comfort when switching between the exactly the same size tyres from different manufacturers, so there are many more variables in this 'equasion' than you describe. Btw, when you switched between 19 and 16 - were the 19 rft tyre? And mind you, not all cars can go from 19 inch to 16. Ussually it is within 2 sizes on most cars (size of brakes etc).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Haggis_Trap, @AthersT, ....HTrap you probably already know this but there's a real lack of clarity about the legal requirements in Germany - a load of websites including the AA are I think inaccurate - a German friend and a couple of websites state that m+s is not legal in Germany in the winter, the tyre has to have the winter tyre symbol - crystal mark and or mountains symbol
But a scan of various websites state that m+s or snowflake is ok for Germany - can any German SH clarify this
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@altis, @Haggis_Trap, @valais2, this is the current advice from the ADAC about winter tyres: https://www.adac.de/infotestrat/reifen/profil-kauf-und-montage/reifenkennzeichnung-pkw/default.aspx?ComponentId=33173&SourcePageId=49474
The relevant section to open is "M+S (Winterreifen/Ganzjahresreifen) - then copy and paste into Google Translate to get the gist. from the same source, this link explains the rules: https://www.adac.de/infotestrat/reifen/winterreifen/default.aspx#tabid=tab4 Again opening and collapsing the pages brings you to the relevant bits - Google Translate makes enough of a show to help understand the rules and the results of not sticking to them (Busgelde/Strafen = fines and punishments).
For what it's worth, I used all weather m+s tyres on my Volvo 940 estate when I first arrived here in July 1999, having had brand-new ones fitted just before leaving the UK. They did not have the mountain or snow crystal sign on them and in the winter of 1999/2000 I did experience problems on quite a few occasions. In the end I got a set of steel rims from a scrap merchants and mounted full winter tyres. Since that time I have never had to use any of my (now many) sets of snowchains. I still have them and have on occasions thought about mounting them but have never been forced to use them to get out of trouble. I switch from my summer tyres usually at the end of September to winter ones (I live in the mountains and snow is a regular occurence in October for us). Then swop back to my summer tyres (and rims) at the end of April beginning of May depending on how cold it still is. I pay my workshop to manage and store the tyres and rims when not in use, although I research and replace any myself. They are happy for me to do that by the way and people like Reifen-Direct deliver them to the workshop ready for the next season. I'm ordering 2 new winter tyres now as the price is good and I know that in September my workshop will tell me that the current rear wheel set are on the limit. Prices now are pretty good for winter tyres, so I'll save myself some money too. 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 2-07-15 8:47; edited 1 time in total
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@Samerberg Sue, ...your experience absolutely mirrors my own - I have some excellent snow chains which I have never used, since the full winter tyres we always use have never let us down, even in deep new snow, or icy road-crust. Meanwhile, the jeep we also use in CH has m&s on it, and we do a hell of a lot of slithering around in that - 4wd with m&s is way inferior to 2wd with full winters, in my experience. M&s are a poor substitute for decent winter tyres from Pirelli, Nokian etc.
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Anyone who's actually used Tyreleader, how long before the tyres arrived? I ordered a pair last week (1st) and had to chase them for a tracking number this morning (7th). I have that now but the last entry on there was on 3rd, and that suggests that they are still in Germany.
I've used a couple of online tyre dealers before and they've always arrived within 2 to 3 days.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Never used Tyreleader but when I've used other companies there is often a delay between the originating location website and the receiving site. Most use DPD so I'd try www.dpd.co.uk and then input the same tracking number.
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@Ravelin, there has been a nationwide postal strike here for the past 4 weeks which involved DHL as well (they are the package delivery service of the Deutsche Post). Things should improve fairly quickly as it is now over but the backlog needs shifting.
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FAQ
