 Poster: A snowHead
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My current 5 year old jacket is more like wearing a bin liner than anything else. It's waterproof but just isn't as breathable as I would like.
My darling wife has agreed that I can have a new one !
So whilst I know all about the jacket side of things pocket, hoods etc, I want advice on the fabric choice.
It would seem that all the major brands have their own 'breathable' fabirc North Face = HyVent etc but is stuff like GoreTex XCR really that much better as to justify the price premium ?
Any advice gratefully received !
Particularly good sources of jackets online...
Cheers !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Goretex xcr is guaranteed 100% waterproof. Other jackets are breathable to a certain level. You can pick up a goretex xcr jacket for around £200 if your on a budget, going up to six or seven hundred pounds for top spec jackets. Some jackets have the seams taped meaning, no moisture whatsoever can pass through the stitching. Your best bet is to have a look online and get an idea of what you are thinking about getting and then posting a reply.
http://www.snowandrock.com and http://www.ellis-brigham.com have a pretty wide selection of top ski jackets though these stores can be on the expensive side. You can expect to pay anything from £100-£400 for a decent ski jacket I suppose. Also do you want an insulated jacket or just a shell.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good question and there isn't a simple answer. While many think that GoreTex is a marketing con, compared with otherbreathable fabrics, it isn't! It is at least as good as anything else and in some cases better.
However, if we accept that it is only as good as the others, that would make you think it wasn't worth buying. Again, its not that simple. GoreTex isn't just a material, it's a statement about the whole garment. Unlike other manufacturers of breathable materials, Gore set minimum standards for garments that use their materials and the garments are submitted to Gore for approval. Gore carry out a whole range of tests and it is reasonable to say that a garment with one of their products is made to the very highest standards.
Now, the question is whether, when you take a major manufacturer such as North Face, there is a difference in the standard of their products with GoreTex and their own material. It's difficult to say because North Face tend to add more features to their GoreTex garments.
Hope that helps a little.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think these are all "shell" jackets though I could be worng. Meaning that an additional layer of a fleece may be needed under them. Some jackets come fleeced or with a removeable fleece for added versatility, on those cold days. I think taped seams are a good idea to keep moisture out as is a recco deflector and a powder skirt can come in handy. I have a sessions jacket I bought from http://www.summits.com a few months ago which Im very happy with. It has all those features for £120. They have a nice Burton 2 in 1 jacket for £120 meaning you could get a second jacket in resort. Some people like to spend £500 on Spyder and arc'teryx jackets but I cant really justify the cost to myself. I really toyed with the Idea of a degre 7 goretex punch jacket @ £320 from S+R recently but it is too expensive alas. It is a supurb looking jacket with all the features you could need. I have a NIke acg jacket as well but it doesnt have the technical specs of the sessions jacket. so look for taped seams, powder skirt, recco and XCR if you want a top spec jacket. My sessions jacket even has a built in whistle in the zipper, thats what i call attention to detail. My knowledge of skiwear is limited so I hope someone else can weigh up the pros of going XCR.
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I have to admit that North face has so many models and so many fakes (ebay) that I have never considered their range.
Have you looked at the Keela Munro sold in the snowShops? I got one for Christmas and Im very impressed. My old jacket was a top of the range (£300 ish) Bonfire jacket. Comparing, the bonfire definitely has more features, but not perhaps necessary ones. The Keela seems to have most things I need, it has the potential for performing better, it is softer and lighter to wear and it only costs half as much (retail price).
When I was looking at Keela, I discovered goretex looses breathability as soon as it gets wet..... assuming their claims are correct, Keela designs do not suffer this.
Adam
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Gore Tex XCR is the premier fabric as the mo' Gore Tex has always been very very waterproof but has had breathabilty issues.
It isn't as good as some fabric for this but when combined with waterproofness as a requirement it is the best around. You may find a PVC type fabric very waterproof but uncomfortable with moisture from inside. Polycottons are very breathable but when you waterproof them to a usable degree the advantage they have over Gore Tex is negated to its detriment.
In short if you want waterproof AND breathable clothing gore tex is the best. Its still a bit of a compromise tho'. And XCR is the latest incarnation of their many fabrics.
Once you have waterproofed the clothing you need to seal the garment which is where taped seams and zips come in. Also the design will help
and it is generally the more technical jackets designed by climbers/skiers etc that are most desirable.
Most technical jackets don't have too many pockets to bulk up the jacket. You have a pack for that. But a skiing user might want those.
I would say the the last jacket is better and there is much of a muchness between the other two. But, my pet hate is paying over £300 for a jacket made by the pacific rim. Where does all that money go..? Not to the guy who makes it, for sure, but thats another arguement..!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I got some degre 7 gloves recently and am well chuffed with them, if their jackets are made to the same standard then you are on to a winner. I think it is a better jacket than the north face one you mentioned. I tend to steer clear of north face jackets as they are quite generic and boring. Schoffel jacktets are pretty good but a bit expensive. I think for £300 plus id expect an insulated jacket and not just a shell because you have to think of the cost of a seperate fleece.
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My old goretex mountaineering jacket (berghaus) is now over 12 yrs old and still going strong - had some harsh abuse over the years too. Paramo seem to have great reviews for an alternative to membrane technologies.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Buns,
Can you describe the lining of the Keela Munro jacket - one of the things I actually like about my current jacket is that in blizzard conditions with the hood up and the neck all done up the inside (espicially around the neck) is all nice and fleecy. In the past I've had jackets with just the basic outer fabric which has rubbed and been v.uncomfortable when my face/neck is cold and damp.
Without wanting to sound strange - have you tried any hot and sweaty excercise in it yet - how breathable is it ?
Also at 6'2" with a 46" chest what size would you suggest ? What size did you get ? Are the sizes generous or tight ?
From what I have seen on the web, they seem like a great 'unkown' make !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hodsonb, I own a North Face Hyvent jacket and its lasted me 5 years, it still looks like it will last me another 5! I also have a windstopper fleece of the same make that zips into my jacket, it cost me around £300 to buy both.
As for your size, I'd say XL will do for you but go down to the shops and try a few jackets on to be sure.
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hodsonb, I've got a Keela too....the inside is nice and fleecy, I've had no problems with rubbing round the neck at all. I've skied in it in everything from -25 to +20 and everything in between and have had no problems at all, it's warm and toasty when you need and I never found myself getting hot & sweaty (but then girls only glow don't they?). Highly recommended. If you ask admin nicely he'll track down a local stockist for you where you can go and have a feel/try on before you buy (at least he did for me!)
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You know it makes sense.
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Cool - just ordered a Keela Munro jacket !
Many thanks for all the advice.... I'll report back when I've had a hot and sweaty test !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The problem with buying high quality kit that lasts for ever (I have a Gore tex XCR jacket, good skis, comfy boots, double lens goggles etc) is that its no fun walking around the ski shops with £100 burning a hole in your pocket  .
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Poster: A snowHead
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Looks like I arrived late to proffer my advice  However, I was once told ( and since proved ) that the 'breathability' of a jacket is only as good as the garments worn under it....Stick a dodgy cotton T on under a breathable jacket and hey presto - sweaty wet t-shirt.
I am not ashamed to say that I sweat profusely and was advised by a specialist outdoor retailer in the Lakes a few years ago, that Goretex could only go so far in helping diffuse moisture. So, I made the choice to be more economical on the jacket and invest in decent under garments with the money saved.
Since then I've never had the stomach to part with £300+ for a jacket ( cheaper jackets means you can update it more regularly, which seems a bonus to me ! ), and went with the North Face Hyvent - I can't say I've had any problems - but then I've not experienced Goretex to know how much better it may, or may not be !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I too have noticed that Ebay has lots of Spyder Jackets at around £80 (£500 in SnR). I suspect they're fake but how culd you tell just by looking at a picture on a web-site? Bought a Tog24 jacket at an outlet village 12 months ago it's been fine so far.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've tried many fabrics including Goretex, Goretex XCR, black bin liners, a tesco shopping bag and many more.
The "eVent" Fabric works best for me because I don't 'arf sweat a lot when chuffing up the hills while ski touring.
Do a search on "eVent" for more info.
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DB, how does Event score on durability. All the Event jackets I have seen (Rab/Montane) are aimed at climbing/mountaineering. I am concerned that the fabric does not hold up to skis' edges, like when carrying them on my shoulders they will rip through the fabric in no time?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We've reviewed a heap of kit this season - obviously we can't tell what it'll be like over a few seasons but it's all taken up the Solden glacier, hiked in and fiddled with over a couple of weeks. We try to break it down by price points. Not every piece of kit is covered eg Keela, which I personally know to be very good, we haven't reviewed yet.
We have done a gore v event shootout: basic summary is that event is more breathable under the same conditions, but can't comment on longevity yet. It was Arc'terycx (gore) v the new Helly Hansen (event) kit. Most impressed with both - Arc kit seems tougher and HH stuff is super-light so I used it on a Monte Rosa tour where it worked in all conditions.
www.fall-lineskiing.co.uk
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| snowman wrote: |
| DB, how does Event score on durability. All the Event jackets I have seen (Rab/Montane) are aimed at climbing/mountaineering. I am concerned that the fabric does not hold up to skis' edges, like when carrying them on my shoulders they will rip through the fabric in no time? |
Not had my eVent jacket that long but have carried skis on my shoulder with no probs. As far as I understand things "Goretex" or "eVent" is the membrane, it's the rest of the jacket (e.g outerskin materials that determine durability). If a jacket lets in water it's more likely to be a bad seam than anything else. I've had an Arcteryx jacket and it was really durable but I still managed to puncture it on a rock (eventually after hitting a few rocks).
To be honest other fabrics are more comfortable to wear and cheaper with better breathability than goretex (e.g Schoeller Dryskin extreme). I tend to only wear a hard shell when the weather is really wet and or windy. I just didn't want to spend another 400 quid on a very high quality jacket that is in the back pack most of the time.
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I often wear my Buffalo mountain shirt under my goretex - the shirt is ok on it's own without thermals down to -5 or so depending on windspeed - it's a pertex/pile garment so waterproofness doesn't matter.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree with most of thee posters here that correct layering is v.important. The best jacket in the world won't help when you have an old cotton t-shirt next to your skin.
I'm curious about the Keela as it has had some very good things said about it especially w.r.t. the breathability in 'real world' conditions - i.e. temperature differentials and humidity levels.
Can't wait to try it out in the 3V in 4 weeks
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| Quote: |
I'm curious about the Keela as it has had some very good things said about it especially w.r.t. the breathability in 'real world' conditions
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I've not seen or used any Keela stuff so am prepared to be shot down in flames about this, but the claimed breathability advantage over goretex in "real world conditions" is of limited value to skiers surely? Keela may be more breathable than goretex when it is soaking wet, but I've only ever skied in rain (in the Alps) maybe 3 or 4 days out of 50+ wks skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Fair point Plake but they do work out rather good value compared to most goretex jackets and I also wear mine cycling around London where rain is rather more common than snow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Edmundh009 wrote: |
| I............a good idea .............. as is a recco deflector |
NO>NO>NO!!!!! These devices should be banned, cut off all garments and never be allowed! They give a totally false sense of security and they are next to useless for anything other than finding dead bodies. The sooner people realise this, the better. Too many poeple think that ricco is better than nothing but if they had nothing, they would then feel a need to have something!
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Hodsonb,
Sorry not to have replied sooner, work kept me away. It looks however that you have made a wise choice anyhow!
One of my important reasons for purchasing was similar to that admin mentions.... I dont want to spend a load of money for something that is used 2 weeks in the year. So my wanting of something like the Keela was motivated half by it being suitable for skiing, and half for it being able to keep me in good shape in the irish rains.
If the overall feeling was to have a jacket which really wasnt going to get wet.... then we all wouldnt be using goretex either
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You know it makes sense.
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| Plake wrote: |
| Quote: |
I'm curious about the Keela as it has had some very good things said about it especially w.r.t. the breathability in 'real world' conditions
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I've not seen or used any Keela stuff so am prepared to be shot down in flames about this, but the claimed breathability advantage over goretex in "real world conditions" is of limited value to skiers surely? Keela may be more breathable than goretex when it is soaking wet, but I've only ever skied in rain (in the Alps) maybe 3 or 4 days out of 50+ wks skiing. |
Very, very true. Many UK skiers are so extravagently over-equipped it can be funny. It takes a single glance from a couple of hundred meters round here to pick a UK skier out of the lift lines
I'd think windproof should be one of the more important features.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| It takes a single glance from a couple of hundred meters round here to pick a UK skier out of the lift lines. |
Yeah, right.
Especially the ones carrying brollies.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It takes a single glance from a couple of hundred meters round here to pick a UK skier out of the lift lines. |
Yeah, right.
Especially the ones carrying brollies. |
Presumably that was standard equipment the last time you went skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes it was, and in the interests of over-equipping myself I shall mainly be skiing this winter in a hot water tank insulation jacket:
Ebay: price 99p
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David, better be careful, someone will likely photoshop that picture with your head, arms and legs sticking out of it!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I noticed a single plug for Paramo in the posts here. Unlike event and goretex it doesn't rely on a waterproof/breathable (!!) membrane to keep you dry. I'd say it was a lot more breathable than both, especially if you're working hard. It also works pretty well with any sensible base layer/mid layer combination, even if it performs best of all with paramo stuff.
What I never get with this is why anyone buys a ski jacket or trousers at all. I just use the same waterproof (if the weather's bad) or windproof (if it's sunny) kit that I use in the UK for walking/cycling etc. How the manufacturers/marketeers manage to persuade us that we need 'skiwear' which is somehow different and that we need to spend several hundred quid on it is beyond me....(rant over!)
dt
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Yes it was, and in the interests of over-equipping myself I shall mainly be skiing this winter in a hot water tank insulation jacket:
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Looks cosy, in what ski stations might we expect to be seeing this over the season?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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ise,
| Quote: |
Very, very true. Many UK skiers are so extravagently over-equipped it can be funny. It takes a single glance from a couple of hundred meters round here to pick a UK skier out of the lift lines
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You should not have any problems spotting a skier dressed in a £500 ski jacket then 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No, you're meant to undress to please your men.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| I often wear my Buffalo mountain shirt under my goretex - the shirt is ok on it's own without thermals down to -5 or so depending on windspeed - it's a pertex/pile garment so waterproofness doesn't matter. |
I tried doing that once. Sweated like a ra.. er, a big sweaty thing all day.
Only use it for dog walking now as I just find it too warm to wear doing anything more active.
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FAQ
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