 Poster: A snowHead
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One of the problems is talking about this as pro or anti basi or sb. The court will not see it that way it will be based on right and wrong.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
I differentiate between
BASI HQ Office
BASI Board
BASI Membership and Marketing
BASI general members
These are all different entities. |
I think they are all one entity under British Association of Snowsport Instructors Limited.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
| Some anti-BASI comments are more harmful than others, though. |
No shït Sherlock. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
BASI has released a slightly fuller statement:
Given the existence of this court action it would be inappropriate to comment on matters in detail but we can
reference the following aspects of this damages claim. The claim exceeds £500,000 and is in respect of loss of income from teaching. It is asserted the member’s loss started to accrue from February 2014 onwards (ie circa 18 months ago), that his average annual income for the 3 year period prior to February 2014 was £145,000, and that this dropped to £45,000 per year following February 2014. The Association are surprised as to the level of income it is claimed was being achieved prior to February 2014 and in any event the basis of calculation is not at all clear. “ Partner. AlexGarioch. Morisons LLP
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There have been a few comments on here, and FB, stating that the proceedings are sub judice? and cannot be commented upon. Now we have BASI's lawyers giving general details about SB's claim. Is this allowed? |
For all those just commenting from the sidelines, it's not a criminal case, so bollox. As if a judge is going to be influenced by social media! If you are involved, then better keep your mouth shut. There was a case once (civil, to do with skiing) where one side shot their mouth of on a chat forum and as a result the case was dismissed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BASI are surprised at SB's level of income, shows a complete lack of understanding of the success of his business model. I.e. What the British public want on a ski holiday. Simon is not fighting this case for money, but for the freedom for him and his family to carry on working in the resort they have been based in for the last 30 years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
For all those just commenting from the sidelines, it's not a criminal case, so bollox.
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That's bollox too. Matters are sub judice in a civil case when the case becomes "active", which is from when the hearing date is set. And then you go on to cite an example of when a court clearly did take notice of what was said on social media. Quite a lot of what is said on this thread could be deemed sub judice.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| Quote: |
For all those just commenting from the sidelines, it's not a criminal case, so bollox.
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That's bollox too. Matters are sub judice in a civil case when the case becomes "active", which is from when the hearing date is set. And then you go on to cite an example of when a court clearly did take notice of what was said on social media. Quite a lot of what is said on this thread could be deemed sub judice. |
Really? Have both party's pleadings been finalised and the record closed?
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@Gerry, ok, from the setting of the hearing date in England, from pleadings in Scotland. So in England it would be sub judice already but as the case is in Scotland probably not yet. But there will be a time from which people should be aware they could be held in contempt. Matters not whether civil or criminal case.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To me there have been two distinct issues for BASI re Simon Butler, the first was a fairly easy one to spot and it was the expulsion of SB, it was blatantly obvious that this was done incorrectly at the time and that SB was very likely to win in court (or as was the case for BASI to cave in before it got to court). The less obvious issue is the MOU being issued and then withdrawn, SB is potentially the tip of the iceberg because if the court rules that he should have been issued with it under the Grandfather rights (and from what I have read of the original ruling between BASI and the French he should have been) it may well mean that the other 16-30 people (the numbers seem to vary) in a similar situation should have been as well, if they then were to decide to take action vs BASI either as a group or as individuals it may well be that BASI would not have sufficient funds in the kitty to cover this.
This I suspect is at least in part why the second court case is still going on, BASI can probably not afford to loose it and so have to fight.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
This I suspect is at least in part why the second court case is still going on, BASI can probably not afford to lose it and so have to fight. |
I thought they had stated that they were covered by insurance?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'd laugh my socks off if the judge decided SB didn't merit his MoU - and neither did any of the other grandads. Might find BASI suddenly backing SB's case in France!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| I'd laugh my socks off if the judge decided SB didn't merit his MoU - and neither did any of the other grandads. Might find BASI suddenly backing SB's case in France! |
Now that would be very amusing.
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@Gerry, Ah but bear in mind originally they stated that they were fully within their rights to throw out SB in the way that they did, look how that turned out !
Insurance will only cover certain conditions, if it is proved that there was anything malicious being done either by BASI or it's directors then the Insurance would almost certainly not cover things, given that it has been suggested that there is a distinct conflict of interest between certain BASI directors commercial interests in France and SB's business, I'm not certain the Insurers would pay out, if it comes out that there is not a legal reason for withholding the MOU's from SB and those others who have requested them and been denied who knows what might occur. I guess we will all now have to wait and see what happens in November.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
BASI has released a slightly fuller statement:
| Quote: |
Given the media speculation and social media comment in the past 24 hours, BASI is taking this opportunity to update all Members on the status of the Court Actions taken by Mr Butler against the Association.
The first legal action against BASI was lodged shortly after November 2014 and relates to the decision to terminate Simon Butler's Membership of BASI.
BASI has now revoked its decision of 1 November 2014 to terminate Simon Butler’s membership. This decision was made on the basis of legal advice obtained. Accordingly, Simon remains a member of BASI. As a consequence of this decision the court action raised by Simon (in terms of which he sought suspension and interdict) has been dismissed.
The second action, a judicial review, was raised by Simon Butler against BASI earlier in 2015 is scheduled for a first hearing on 18 November 2015. BASI is maintaining its defence to this action.
Within BASI's Annual Report for 2015, there is a statement in the Financial Accounts (page 67) provided by BASI's solicitors which further clarifies BASI's position with regard to this second court action.
“The Association is currently defending a court action brought against it by a member. This action incorporates a claim for damages. The Association have received advice from Senior Counsel that their defence to this action is well founded. Further the damages aspect of the claim, as presented as at the date these accounts are signed, appears arithmetically incorrect and further, is unsubstantiated and un-vouched.
Given the existence of this court action it would be inappropriate to comment on matters in detail but we can
reference the following aspects of this damages claim. The claim exceeds £500,000 and is in respect of loss of income from teaching. It is asserted the member’s loss started to accrue from February 2014 onwards (ie circa 18 months ago), that his average annual income for the 3 year period prior to February 2014 was £145,000, and that this dropped to £45,000 per year following February 2014. The Association are surprised as to the level of income it is claimed was being achieved prior to February 2014 and in any event the basis of calculation is not at all clear. “ Partner. AlexGarioch. Morisons LLP
Members should also note that BASI is protected by an insurance policy from claims such as this and therefore in a ‘worst case scenario’ this will not negatively affect BASI as an ongoing concern or the Membership financially.
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rob, this statement, taken at face value, seems pretty significant and most unusual.
NB - your posting of it was at 16:03 on 1 Oct: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118807&start=1600#2764922
Please could you explain how and where it was released? (can't find any trace of it on official BASI media)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@David Goldsmith, email to members
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dunk wrote: |
| @David Goldsmith, email to members |
And wasn't it on their Facebook page?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Gerry, not that statement.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dunk wrote: |
| @David Goldsmith, email to members. |
Ok, nothing 'most unusual' about that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The BASI statement appears in three forms ...
1. The official Facebook posting by BASI [16.50, 30 September] here:
https://www.facebook.com/BASI.BritishAssociationofSnowsportInstructors/posts/1018073981556345
| Quote: |
BASI Statement 30 September 2015
S Butler V BASI
BASI has now revoked its decision of 1 November 2014 to terminate Simon Butler’s membership. This decision was made on the basis of legal advice obtained. Accordingly Simon remains a member of BASI. As a consequence of this decision the court action raised by Simon (in terms of which he sought suspension and interdict) has been dismissed.
The action of judicial review raised by Simon Butler will now have a first hearing on 18 November 2015. BASI are maintaining their defence to this action.
on behalf of the BASI Board |
2. A longer version, quoted by rob@rar on 1 October on p.41 of this thread [publication location not disclosed] ...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118807&start=1600#2764922
3. A similar version to (2) but with the name of Andrew Lockerbie, BASI CEO, attached to it ... which has appeared on J2Ski News ...
https://www.j2ski.com/ski-chat-forum/posts/list/16320.page
| Quote: |
BASI Statement Court Action Butler v BASI
1 October 2015
Given the media speculation and social media comment in the past 24 hours, BASI is taking this opportunity to update all Members on the status of the Court Actions taken by Mr Butler against the Association.
The first legal action against BASI was lodged shortly after November 2014 and relates to the decision to terminate Simon Butler's Membership of BASI.
BASI has now revoked its decision of 1 November 2014 to terminate Simon Butler's membership. This decision was made on the basis of legal advice obtained. Accordingly, Simon remains a member of BASI. As a consequence of this decision the court action raised by Simon (in terms of which he sought suspension and interdict) has been dismissed.
The second action, a judicial review, was raised by Simon Butler against BASI earlier in 2015 is scheduled for a first hearing on 18 November 2015. BASI is maintaining its defence to this action.
Within BASI's Annual Report for 2015, there is a statement in the Financial Accounts (page 67) provided by BASI's solicitors which further clarifies BASI's position with regard to this second court action.
"The Association is currently defending a court action brought against it by a member. This action incorporates a claim for damages. The Association have received advice from Senior Counsel that their defence to this action is well founded. Further the damages aspect of the claim, as presented as at the date these accounts are signed, appears arithmetically incorrect and further, is unsubstantiated and un-vouched.
Given the existence of this court action it would be inappropriate to comment on matters in detail but we can
reference the following aspects of this damages claim. The claim exceeds £500,000 and is in respect of loss of income from teaching. It is asserted the member's loss started to accrue from February 2014 onwards (ie circa 18 months ago), that his average annual income for the 3 year period prior to February 2014 was £145,000, and that this dropped to £45,000 per year following February 2014. The Association are surprised as to the level of income it is claimed was being achieved prior to February 2014 and in any event the basis of calculation is not at all clear. " Partner. AlexGarioch. Morisons LLP
Members should also note that BASI is protected by an insurance policy from claims such as this and therefore in a 'worst case scenario' this will not negatively affect BASI as an ongoing concern or the Membership financially.
Andrew Lockerbie
Chief Executive Officer
BASI
1 October 2015 |
David Goldsmith, SKI.HUB
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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^ statementgate has begun.
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Book of Cyril verse 3, ch 1: And there shall in that time be rumours of statements going astray, and there will be a great confusion as to where statements really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little statements with the sort of raffia work base, that has an attachment…at this time, a friend shall lose his friends’s statement and the young shall not know where lieth the statements possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before around eight o’clock...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| The Association have received advice from Senior Counsel that their defence to this action is well founded. Further the damages aspect of the claim, as presented as at the date these accounts are signed, appears arithmetically incorrect and further, is unsubstantiated and un-vouched. |
Was it my imagination, or did the BASI not also claim previously that the decision to eject SB was made after legal counsel was sought?
What is Senior Counsel? ... it says nothing about legal advice being sought, to me it reads that a senior figure within the BASI has told them that they have a good defence. Sounds pretty similar to earlier claims.
How many times can we use the word "further" in one sentence? I take those two and raise two ...
Further to my previous comments I would add that, the further into this travesty one looks, the further from reality the board of the BASI appear to be, this does not bode well for the furthering of their position in these matters.
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@billy not a boy, Senoir Counsel is Legal Counsel's elder brother.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| I'd laugh my socks off if the judge decided SB didn't merit his MoU - and neither did any of the other grandads. Might find BASI suddenly backing SB's case in France! |
That would be a very amusing situation 
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@Dunk, Senior Council was 'Stephen Burke' Where is Stephen Burke?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Poleplant wrote: |
| @Dunk, Senior Council was 'Stephen Burke' Where is Stephen Burke? |
Haha, he's not Senior Counsel, he's not even the solicitor that he claimed to be!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| billy not a boy wrote: |
| Poleplant wrote: |
| @Dunk, Senior Council was 'Stephen Burke' Where is Stephen Burke? |
Haha, he's not Senior Counsel, he's not even the solicitor that he claimed to be! |
Evidence?
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@billy not a boy, That's interesting, it's been a criminal offence to impersonate a solicitor for yonks and in '09 they made it a criminal offence to impersonate a lawyer/barrister.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| billy not a boy wrote: |
https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=ADEAAAPmNUUBXEUAz-whLTozpeZaI2d26Rfh2Wo&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=B2Sy&locale=en_US&srchid=1490945961443888258808&srchindex=1&srchtotal=1&trk=vsrp_people_res_name&trkInfo=VSRPsearchId%3A1490945961443888258808%2CVSRPtargetId%3A65418565%2CVSRPcmpt%3Aprimary%2CVSRPnm%3Atrue%2CauthType%3ANAME_SEARCH
try to find his name registered at the bar, and I wish you luck with that effort. |
Where's the proof he's claimed to be something he isn't?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ah, I get you @Gerry ... I recall him saying that he is a solicitor in one of the AGM/EGM forums a couple of years back; I have no idea whether or not this was committed to celluloid (or the modern day equivalent)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looks like he's a lawyer to me but whether he's eligible to practice in the UK is another question that I can't see the answer to in his LinkedIn profile.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And he now knows who's looked at his linked in profile, just saying.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There's no problems looking at someone's linked in profile @ansta1, it's in the public domain
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@billy not a boy, I know, just pointing out for those not aware that it will not only track who looked at a profile but also inform the profile owner. A quick look shows some interesting views.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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www.planetski.eu/news/3840
| planetski wrote: |
Stephen Burke is a Harvard graduate and an internationally qualified multi-lingual lawyer with experience of working for large corporations, banks and institutions around the world.
As an in-house legal advisor he has liaised at board level on all aspects of business, strategy, internal policy and compliance.
His wealth of experience and fluency in both French and Italian should be of benefit to BASI as it deals with employment legislation within Europe and interaction and lobbying with Government agencies.
"I am pleased to have been selected by the membership and know that there are a few challenges ahead. I look forward to working with the Board and representing the membership in progressing the organisation." |
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Just thought i would let everyone know that after 15 years and god knows how many thousands of £'s spent i am not renewing my Basi license this year.
Very sad that it has come to this as i loved being a ski instructor.
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@stevew,
Lawyer or not there was an awful lot of external legal advice paid for during his term. His eligibility to be a Full member of BASI and thus eligibility to be a director of BASI is easier to determine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ansta1 wrote: |
| @billy not a boy, I know, just pointing out for those not aware that it will not only track who looked at a profile but also inform the profile owner. A quick look shows some interesting views. |
When I last looked, if you turn off that stuff then you can't see who's checking your profile, but you're also anonymous to other users you look at. And any public profile hits are obviously anonymous.
--
BASI settled on the court steps for round 1, contradicting everything they'd said about the issue up to that point.
I'd guess they were definitely going to lose round 1, so giving in on it cost them nothing but looking a bit daft, and it may increase their chances of negotiating their way out of round 2. It's hardly likely to affect their rhetoric ahead of the court steps though.
I'm absolutely not legally qualified, but I can't really see how to compromise on this second round. The old blokes in BASI who have not/ could not/ and will not pass the same test they're forcing other people to take seem, well, let's see what the courts say they are.
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| BlubaBluba wrote: |
Just thought i would let everyone know that after 15 years and god knows how many thousands of £'s spent i am not renewing my Basi license this year.
Very sad that it has come to this as i loved being a ski instructor. |
That's sad news  . Best of luck going forward.
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FAQ
