 Poster: A snowHead
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Isn't the summary here that our kids may well be better skiers than us adults, so we presume (know) that they can handle the off piste skiing. But most children are likely to be far less capable rescuers (or calm victims), so the logic is to avoid putting them into that sort of potential situation until they are emotionally tough enough to deal with it. Or put another way, what age do you think they would be capable of seeing you buried and then start to work rescuing you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Based on this Easter I plan to ski anywhere with my 2 year old. I do plan to ski with a chocolate egg in my pocket. If I get buried, he will sniff out the chocolate and find me. Only 2 wee issues to over come A) he finds the egg first then I risk him eating the egg and leaving me buried B) plan is at rick from me eating the egg.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dot., 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I can see the argument about the horror experienced by a child faced with the impossibility of rescuing a buried parent. But I'm not convinced it would be that much worse than the horror of seeing your parent unconscious in the front of a car, bleeding from ears, nose and eyes. Or watching that figure bobbing, face down, away from the boat. Or seeing your mother catapulted off her horse and breaking her neck on the cobbled farmyard.
As a sailor I don't always wear a lifejacket and didn't always insist the kids wore them. (Though everybody wears buoyancy aids in dinghies - that's different). Yes, it probably makes you statistically safer (and these days they're not big and clumsy, like they used to be) but wearing a crash helmet in a car would make you (and your kids) statistically safer too, but you don't do that, do you?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is my 9/10yo capable of rescuing me. Possibly not
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Possibly?
I'd be amazed if a 9/10 yo would be capable. Have you practised it with them under anything like real world conditions - doing the search on a steep snowy hillside, probing, digging? It's physically demanding for a fit adult. Never mind controlling your emotions and keeping cool under the time pressure.
I think the reason for giving a 10 yo has to be nothing to do with them conducting a rescue - rather to allow them to be found (but IMV they should only be on terrain where that is EXTREMELY unlikely to be an issue) or just to establish the principle that "you go off-piste, you wear a transceiver" which is a valid POV (although difficult to square with the fact they ski off piste with ski instructors without a transceiver).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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But when I drive, I drive on roads that (by and large) have similar levels of risk associated with them all of the time (I know that is overly simplistic, but you get the point I hope). Skiing "properly" off piste in an area where there is a real risk of an avalanche would be like driving your car around a race track in a race - somewhere where risks are deliberately higher, but the fun trades off against the risk. And in that situation, yes I would make sure my kids wore helmets in the car (or better still, I would drive without them in the car at all).
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| jedster wrote: |
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Is my 9/10yo capable of rescuing me. Possibly not
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Possibly?
I'd be amazed if a 9/10 yo would be capable. Have you practised it with them under anything like real world conditions - doing the search on a steep snowy hillside, probing, digging? It's physically demanding for a fit adult. Never mind controlling your emotions and keeping cool under the time pressure. |
Quote nicely taken out of context jedster. The point, reiterated as you may have missed it, is that as I don't expect he could at the moment, hence he hasn't carried a probe or shovel at this point. However, as he gets older, bigger and more responsible, that possibility will increase. Fixing a precise age for this isn't easy. And of course you will only find out should the worst happen. The answer to your question is that we did our first bit of training on a recent trip (ava park Les Arcs). But it was as much for me and the missus as for the kids. No particular plans at the moment to lay anything on the little fella in terms of responsibilities. We'll see how it goes.
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| I think the reason for giving a 10 yo has to be nothing to do with them conducting a rescue - rather to allow them to be found (but IMV they should only be on terrain where that is EXTREMELY unlikely to be an issue) or just to establish the principle that "you go off-piste, you wear a transceiver" which is a valid POV (although difficult to square with the fact they ski off piste with ski instructors without a transceiver). |
Agreed. Although, we seemed to be have been labelled for emotionally retarded and grossly irresponsible for such thinking.
TBH it's all typical parental argey bargey in the sense of how you bring your kids up.
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You won't be able to get any insurance cover until they are 18 , and it doesn't matter if they havfe all the gear , sking with a guide etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I can see the argument about the horror experienced by a child faced with the impossibility of rescuing a buried parent. But I'm not convinced it would be that much worse than the horror of seeing your parent unconscious in the front of a car, bleeding from ears, nose and eyes. Or watching that figure bobbing, face down, away from the boat.
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I agree with that but there does to me seem a moral difference in asking a child to take responsibility for rescuing a parent before they are physically and emotionally ready for it.
If I was sailing offshore with only a 12 year old with me then I would be making damn sure I didn't go overboard! My attitude to reefing, safety lines etc would be different than if there was another (competent) adult on board. Similarly skiing off-piste - I stick to very safe terrain when I don't have another competent adult with me. Indeed, I would ski more risky (but still low risk) terrain solo.
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Agreed. Although, we seemed to be have been labelled for emotionally retarded and grossly irresponsible for such thinking.
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Not by me!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You won't be able to get any insurance cover until they are 18 , and it doesn't matter if they havfe all the gear , sking with a guide etc
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Interesting - so when ESF instructors take ski schools outside the piste markers then their entire class is uninsured? And there has never been an issue with this?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ther will always be debate of 'life is for Living' against 'minimising risks. I've been to a few funerals of those who have died to young. A friend was an adrenaline junky and we shared a passion for quite a risky sport. Unfortunately, he paid the ultimate price for his risks. He knew what he was doing though, knew the risks and made his decisions. He was a young adult though when it happened and what we are talking about now are children.
As for which countries think we're emotionally retarded? Generally, all of them
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| winterfunman wrote: |
| You won't be able to get any insurance cover until they are 18 , and it doesn't matter if they havfe all the gear , sking with a guide etc |
My kids are both over 18 now but before that I had no problems getting insurance for them for skiing off piste. 
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You know it makes sense.
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My kids are insured for helicopter rescue on or off piste whether winter or summer.
They also have state medical insurance (which in austria, is very similar to the NHS).
They also ski on and off piste.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My kids were always on our insurance policy which was with Direct Travel at the time. Off-piste was included for all of us, no exclusions mentioned for age.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| winterfunman wrote: |
| You won't be able to get any insurance cover until they are 18 , and it doesn't matter if they havfe all the gear , sking with a guide etc |
Interesting question that. I was in St Anton last week by myself so signed up for a couple of days group Snowboard lessons - and was quite surprised to be handed transceiver/shovel and told I was in the off piste group. Particularly as some of the group must have been only 11 or 12.
OK so we didn't go off the back of Valluga, but spent majority of time well away from the pistes. My insurance covered me, but certainly wasn't asked and have no idea about the others.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FAQ
