 Poster: A snowHead
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Hoping for some help; I've been having a slightly frustrating email conversation with Oxygene in La Plagne about their Steep and Deep courses. Initially they said that no off-piste experience was necessary, but that confidence on all grades of run was a pre-requisite.
My position is that about 10 years ago I did an "intro to off-piste" course in Tignes. It was amazing, I loved it, and I coped OK with it. I've then had 2 kids, missed a few years skiing and generally fallen off the wagon as far as off-piste is concerned. Plus I'm now the wrong side of 40 and a bit less kamikaze. I still take every opportunity to go just off the sides of the piste, or to traverse at the top and drop down the off-piste "shoulders" onto the piste again, or to ski unpisted blacks, but I haven't done anything more than that.
I now really, really want to get properly into it. I know that what I should really do is to go on a Spring off-piste bash and I'm going to work on that idea, but it requires a week's pass-out leaving husband with kids / school etc etc.
Anyway, back to the current dilemma; Oxygene have now come back and said that actually, significant off-piste experience IS required for their Steep and Deep course. That does, to be fair, tally with comments others have made on this forum (I have searched). They are trying hard to push me to private lessons instead, but there are issues over timing (I can only do it in the morning when my kids are also in ski school), and cost; if you want private lessons in the mornings you have to commit to 5 days. That means 900 Euros, which I don't have.
Does anyone have any ideas? Perhaps of other "courses" I might not have found, or failing that, particular instructors recommended if I need to go the private route. We are going the 28th March which is Easter hols, so I really need to get a move on and book since my timings are so inflexible.
Thanks guys.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just my opinion but you don't need a course, you need to get into a guided group. Off piste technique isn't so radically different to off piste. If you've done the intro course and a fair bit of lift served stuff you just need to be in a group of equipped like minded people and someone who knows when and where to find the pow. Just IMO. Before kids I went to Val D with two mates who were "still learning" and I booked into a group with a guiding company. The guide will often point out bits and pieces of technique to correct anyhow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Do ESF in La Plagne not do an off piste group? I've done that group with ESF in Tignes last year and the year before and found it great. Not a big emphasis on instruction, but they certainly get you off the beaten track, away from the crowds (my weeks were both half term) and provided ABS packs just in case. It was cheap too, as I recall - something like Euro 150 for 5 days. They were also careful about splitting into groups of similar ability, although that was possibly just because it was half term and busy, so they had enough interest to run two groups.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Layne, my experience of guided groups, particularly French guided groups, is that they expect you to be a competent off-piste skier already and do not hang about.
@swoafs, Reflex ski school (who are in 1800) do something called 'Trip experience' which appears to be intro off piste, for €65 per day (9am-1pm), max group size 8 people.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 2-02-15 16:28; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Layne, that sounds great, but so far I've only found the Guides Office and they do full days only. Sadly I can only do mornings when my own kids are in ski school.
@mickv, definitely a possibility - ESF website for Plagne 1800 is not terribly helpful; the off-piste parts say you "must have off-piste level 4", and I've heard that Classe 4 is rather infamous with many participants being very, very experienced. I would email them for more information but there is no sign of an email address - I guess I should try giving them a call and hope that someone speaking very good English picks up the phone; I'm ashamed to say my French is non-existent.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I a! In La plagne now. An ESF instructor came to the hotel and was asking if anyone wanted to go off piste in a group. He said there was an intermediate group going out and one lady enquired. I will ask her for you and get costs etc ..
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@limegreen1, Oh, that would be SUPER brilliant! Thank you ever so much!!!
We are staying in La Plagne 1800 in case it makes any difference.
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Ah, and Gamsbock's comment about the guided groups is pertinent; I definitely don't want to feel I'm holding anyone up and I want to be within my capabilities.
I found the Reflex pages, Gamsbock, so will follow up with them again too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| Ah, and Gamsbock's comment about the guided groups is pertinent; I definitely don't want to feel I'm holding anyone up and I want to be within my capabilities. |
Sure but the reality is if you put a random group of individuals together that's the role of the dice. And it wouldn't necessarily be any different on "a course". When I joined the off piste group in Val D I wasn't familiar with the classification system. It seemed to come down to do you want to ski steeps and couloirs, or not. I opted for not because even though I quite fancied it, I was nervous as to how gnarly it was going to be. Anyways, my group was a mixed bag. Everybody was cool. We did some decent stuff and had a lot of fun. Nobody completed bombed out. I am sure some were a bit more competent than others but I don't recall that. I just remember a few of the routes we took. IIRC I did 3 mornings but one of the days we extended for a day with some cash in hand. But I've not done loads off guiding. The other two times were in Cham. Once specifically to do the VB and the other when I did a w/e with my now wife and it was just the two of us. At the end of the day though everybody is after the same thing. As long as you don't overstate your standard it's up to them to get a suitable group together. Again just IMO.
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Was a while ago but oxygene's level4 did a fair bit of offpiste from what I remember. ESF level4 is a bit of a minefield ime - high season they may well run a 3+/4- which is perfect, but get unlucky and you just have a bunch of annoyed uber-skiers watching you repeatedly side-slip/back bottom-slide your way down the hill  ESF private lessons for a day or two might work - you could then probably safely join the level4 for the rest of the week if you 'pass' and if not join the highest level3 they are running, I find one thing ESF are good at is being fairly flexible (as they have a lot of classes out).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@a.j., I asked Oxygene if I could join their level4 instead and they came back and said that it would hardly be off piste at all. Apart from starting to think that they don't want my money  , it does seem a bit daft to leave a gap like that in your programme. I would have thought there'd be a lot of demand for off-piste intro groups / courses.
Anyhow, I am waiting to hear back from Reflex and looking forward to hearing if @limegreen1, can find out anything about the ESF intermediate group for me. If I have to go the private lessons route instead, does anyone have any particular instructor recommendations?
@Layne, you're right, someone has to be the worst. I just live in dread of the situation @a.j. describes. I should apply rule 5......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'd talk to one of the senior ESF guys, if you decide to wait and go down that route. If you aren't going in super bust season you could probably leave it until you are in resort - I have the impression that the off piste groups are more likely to be able to accommodate people at short notice (but that's only my impression based on past experience in Tignes). Just explain your concerns and they should do their best to help - if you call the ESF office, ask to speak to an instructor to talk it through. Worst case, they'll boot you out after a morning and give you your money back or offer a lower group, provided you've made it clear you have concerns over ability up front. This sort of things is an occupational hazard when you get into the higher groups, but unless you are willing to chance your arm, you'll never know how great it could have been  Hope it works out well!
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Get in touch with Christophe at Reflex, highly recommended and will guide/teach as you wish, or propose the right type of course.
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You know it makes sense.
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Update: I am in touch with Reflex, and looking into a private lesson, but they are unfortunately too busy that week to offer their off-piste trips. So it now looks as if ESF is my only option for group sessions. @limegreen1, I'd be really grateful if you were able to find out anything from the lady in your hotel. Otherwise I'm going to take mickv's advice and turn up at the ESF office on the first evening and see what I can do.
Thanks for all your help everyone!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Layne, I think I might be too much of a liability not to be under the supervision of a professional; I will have my own kit by then but might well be in the "all the gear and no idea" category 
Definitely a fantastic idea for when I'm rather more practised / competent off-piste, thank you. I will mentally bookmark for another time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi .. The lady went out with an intermediate group and it cost her 82euros. She is a competent skier across the mountain but had no off piste experience. I happened to see her group skiing down "sala" to Montchavin and although you could tell some were more "comfortable" there was no obvious issues in some holding others back. She also said the group was good in that respect and she didn't feel under pressure in anyway. She had a great day. The instructor that came to the hotel is called Emmanuel and his number is 0033687224690. Another is Seal Skins guides. Their number is 0033685828945, but have no other insights to them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@limegreen1, that's absolutely fantastic; thank you ever so much for going to the effort to find that out for me; I will follow up and report back after our trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We're back from our week in La Plagne, so I wanted to follow up on this since everyone was so helpful.
In the end I booked two private sessions with Reflex; the first 3 hours and the second 2.5 hours long just because that's what fitted into our joint schedules. And I have to say, it was the MOST fantastic experience. I can't praise Youri at Reflex, highly enough. During the same week that someone else commented on another thread that the off-piste in La Plagne was poor, I had 5.5 full hours of amazing, amazing (did I say amazing  ) snow and fresh tracks on every route. I can't remember the names of all the routes, but people who know La Plagne will maybe recognise:
Up the Roche di Mio bubble, straight over side and down to the Chalet de Bellecote chair.
Up the glacier and Traverse lift, first little bit of Rochu / Bellecote, then keep going clockwise around the mountain onto the next face and down, eventually, via lots of trees and a little walk out, to Bauches chair. Very nearly fell in the stream at the bottom . I think this route was called Freola?
Up the Grand Rochette, out of the lift and straight ahead down towards Champagny
Up the Grand Rochette again, this time turn back on yourself and down the "mini" couloirs under the bubble, x 2
There were at least 2 more routes, but my middle aged memory can't cope with any more and has particularly blanked the one where I fell and lost my helmet (due to stupidly not doing it up tight enough - lesson learnt there) - and it rolled 100m down the hill without me. Thank g*d that wasn't same run as the one where the ESF instructor was standing with a group of kids watching us as we came down 
Anyway, I had just the best, most incredible, fantastic and amazing time ever. I learnt so much and gained huge amounts of confidence. Youri was so kind and encouraging, and incredibly knowledgeable about the area and where to find the best snow; he grew up in the area and I loved hearing his stories of playing cowboys and indians amongst the mounds under the Colorado chair, and lying under rocks watching for bearded vultures. The only problem is that I'm now COMPLETELY spoilt and will expect the same again next year, and every other trip for that matter. Here's hoping!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@swoafs, that does sound great. Congratulations. Goes to show the value of local guides who know where to take you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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This sounds v interesting - going next week. Where are Reflex located and do you have to find the office to book etc. . . ?
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@Belch, Reflex are easily contacted by email; I think Caroline, Christophe's wife, is English.
Reflex-skischool@live.fr
Or via their website if I've got that wrong. Youri works for them Sun-Weds but I'm sure all the team are good. He recommended a 4 hour slot really because then he could take people down the famous North or South face of Bellecote routes. Unfortunately I didn't have that time available because of the children.
I hope you're as lucky as I was!
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swoafs, glad you had a good time, but us LaPlangephils are most upset about this thread.
Please could you edit your posts: it was, of course, a rather late Poisson d'Avril.
As everyone knows, there is no off-piste in La Plagne - it is a resort full of easy red and blue runs with lots of flat bits and vast queues.
We do not want lots of macho skiers arriving expecting lots of wonderful wild exciting back-country runs - they will only be disappointed.
Head on up the valley, and go to Espace Killy instead.
[for swoafs's eyes only: you've done a number of runs that i've not done. Well done for managing the Grand Rochetts couloirs: not tried them this season. Not quite sure what you mean by straight over to Champagny from Grand Rochette. Next time you must try the North Face if the conditions are conducive - a truly wonderful run)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jonpim, you've found me out. To all other snowheads, I'd like to apologise for my dastardly April Fool, and for misleading you so comprehensively  . Jonpim is of course right. There is no off-piste worth speaking about in La Plagne, and what is there is only skiable on 2 days per season. I had the two days this time round, and plan to have them again next year, so none left for anyone else. Definitely best to go to EK, or, even better, to Chamonix.
[Jonpim, it was obvious from the lack of tracks, both before and after, that not many others had skiied the GR couloirs this season either. One of them was a bit narrow at the top... snow only really on one side. Youri showed me how to do sort of "half turns"; point skis down and then swoop up again, always to the same side. Much more fun than side slipping which would have been the alternative option ]
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Jonpim, +1 well said
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Glad you had a great time @swoafs. And thanks for coming back and telling us the outcome.
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