 Poster: A snowHead
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Just returned from another great holiday at the Gartenhotel Theresia in Hinterglemm and decided that due to the fantastic welcome and facilities, especially for our daughter (3 next year), that we'd book for next season. We usually book direct but decided to check what was on offer from the uk tour operators.
Only one has holidays at the Theresia and their price for the 3 of us was £6776 (!!!) for 14 days, the price for the 3 year old is only marginally cheaper than the full adult price.
The price for booking direct with the hotel was €4041 for the 3 of us, approx £3000 being cautious with the exchange rates. (Note - in common with a lot of Austrian hotels, children are free at the end of February and during March)
The Ba flights offered by the TO are currently £1165 (3 times the cost of this year for some reason).
So £6776 vs £4165, leaving £2611 for the TO transfers (a helicopter transfer to Hinterglemm is apparently £1700 so maybe that's what is included?) and profit. Maybe these prices cross subsidise the super cheap packages they advertise...
We booked direct.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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An interesting comparison. I suspect you're right, that high value packages are the mainstay of the TOs profit because a lot of people who buy them don't much care about the price and CBA to arrange holidays for themselves.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Jj72,
Shhhhhh! keep deals below the radar or there wont be any left next time you want to book it!
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@Mitchell,  The OP booked direct with the hotel at their normal price. It wasn't a "deal", exactly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Jj72, Our last two holidays have been via TO's and in both cases the prices were actually less than I could achieve when trying to DIY the same holidays. Of course, DIY will tend to be cheaper generally, but I suspect that TO prices can be particularly high this far ahead. (They need to sell it at a high price so they can legitimately offer the same holiday at a huge discount later on). TOs can often achieve much better rates with flights, accommodation, transfers than Joe Bloggs can when DIYing, so I suspect that when you strip out the TO profit margin and a small contingency margin that DIYers should also bear in mind then the average cost of the average holiday is pretty similar. I've always worked on the principle that a DIY holiday can give savings in specific circumstances but the main advantage is the flexibility rather than cost.
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foxtrotzulu,
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I've always worked on the principle that a DIY holiday can give savings in specific circumstances but the main advantage is the flexibility rather than cost. |
The way we tend to view as well. DIY is easier to do these days and with flexibility you can get rewards.
Also a bad result from a TO, helped along with the decision to DIY - but we wouldn't rule out using a TO if the need arose.
Jj72, Nice that you have next seasons trip sorted, and the hotel has agreed prices for next season - might be worth paying for it now too at the current exchange rates.
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I think if you are travelling to a hotel in peak season with children DIY is very often cheaper. We did this at New Year to La Plagne. A long time ago now (1st season for Paradiski) so I can't remember prices now, but I know it was quite a bit less than TO to do the same hotel DIY, book flights and hire a car. We didn't have to hang around the airport coach park for hours waiting for the coach to fill up either. We had a family lift pass which wasn't been offered by the TO.
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@Jj72,
We see similar savings on our family of 4 DIY holidays, and we usually get a better room in the hotels than we would with a TO. Last Christmas we were in a suite with two bedrooms, not the usual TO shoebox with 2 extra beds crammed in (or a sofa bed).
In Austria going Sunday to Sunday is usually an option to get the flight prices down, or Wednesday to Wednesday as we are doing next Christmas 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It is an interesting comparison. However, consider that most tour operators don't usually offer 14 day ski holidays to Europe, can you share how you got the 14 day price? Was it a custom quote? Or is it possible the TO has just stuck the price of 2 x 1 week hols together?
We're off to Hinterglemm next week and the no.3 in our family is a little older (13) so no childcare is needed. We paid £1,400 for 3 of us HB, flights, and transfers during school hols with a TO. I'm under no illusions our hotel is unlikely to be anywhere near as nice as the one you enjoyed! But I can guarantee we wouldn't be able to get close to that DIY (having costed out various options to Saalbach/Hinterglemm)
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@hammerite,
That sounds like a fantastic deal - who was it with?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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that's not such a fantastic deal if it's a triple room - good, otherwise.
There are quite a lot of deals about at the moment (not all of them to resorts I'd want to be heading to given current conditions!).
In the days when I used to peruse TO brochures they often gave information on the reduction for a 2 week holiday (ie because of not needing the middle flights). The first one we ever did, to Austria with Inghams, was a 2 week holiday.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My own experience of TO v DIY which I have priced against each other quite a bit over the years is that it varies and sometimes by quite a bit. My family holidays have generally been taken with advance notice and usually but not invariably in Scottish school holidays. For these holidays DIY has pretty much always come out with significantly lower prices.
For other holidays usually a bit more mixed I have tended to DIY for the increased flexibility but certainly not always and have just had a very reasonably priced week for two in Italy with a TO.
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Inghams have the option to enter 7, 10 or 14 days.
Even if they added 2 x week prices together it wouldn't justify the price difference.
Basically, if you book with the TO, you pay for 3 people even if they share a room or in this particular example, the hotel lets the children stay for free.
Like a few Austrian hotels we have come across, the Theresia has a cheaper hotel joined onto it - the Johann. You get a slightly smaller room but use all of the facilities of the posh hotel next door and get the same food. That's where we stay but I asked for a price of the posh bit (and had a look at the rooms) to see if it was worth the extra. It also happens to be where the TO sell rooms. We couldn't justify paying the extra so in fact booked a room in the cheap bit for €900 less.
We couldn't justify the helicopter transfer either....
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You know it makes sense.
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We find it much cheaper to do it ourselves and also can sometimes avoid the misery of flying on Saturday when small alpine airports choc a bloc with tour operators clients. Also if we need to break during transfer to feed kids then we can !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w,
Looks like a good deal to me. I just checked this years Inghams brochure and the cheapest offering to Saalback next week is £2600 for three people. The only deal that comes up on iglu is £890 PP.
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Poster: A snowHead
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£2600 for three people
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I reckon that's quite a lot for a last minute holiday. You can get a triple room for 3 in Berger's sporthotel (don't know the resort, but that looks pretty good) for under £1000. http://preview.tinyurl.com/oljhulz
That leaves a lot for travel and transfers. If you had booked flights early and waited for accommodation I bet you could beat £2600 by a considerable distance. By absolutely miles if you drove down.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Jj72, I've booked the Alpinresort in Saalbach for £1080 for a week next year with Neil&son. Direct with the hotel would have been €211 a night - so about the same money, but not including the flight and transfer...
You never can tell...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You never can tell...
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I agree - need to cost it out. One thing is certain - that DIY gives you a vaster greater choice of resorts and accommodation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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That sounds a LOT bigger
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@red 27, 
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@pam w,
I agree £2600 is a lot for a last minute holiday, it's about the same as the cheaper brochure prices for that week.
That deal in Bergers is breakfast only. Half board costs about another 200 Euro on top of that. Flights at Easter assuming you book early enough with a decent carrier would be about £200 each. That would add up to about the saving I would expect going DIY over TO, but I still say that @hammerite's £1400 is a bloody good deal. That's £200 cheaper than DIY with transfers included, and the taxi from Salzburg would be about £250 return or about £100 on public transport.
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@musher, Neilson. We took a big risk on conditions and booked in December, but the price was good, snow history fine and we really wanted to Saalbach/Hinterglemm.
Our Easter ski hols have cost somewhere between £2,100-£2,300 (Granvallira, Les Arcs, Kitzbuhel, Radstadt and Serre Che over the past few years) inc HB, transfers, lift pass and ski hire. This time round I reckon it'll come in at around £1,850.
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This time round I reckon it'll come in at around £1,850.
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that would be a brilliant price - but if your package is £1450 are you going to get 3 lift passes, ski hire, lunches and incidentals for £400?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lunches are on top, as is all money spent while there but i didn't include those in other years either. 2 lift passes = £300 as Jnr's is free (think we got free passes for Les Arcs and Ski Amade). Already booked ski hire which comes in a little bit short of £150.
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4 of us off to Morillon next Thursday, priced as follows......
Tunnel over £87
ferry back £32
accomodation (sleeps eight) wanted the space! £425
Grand Massif lift passes £504
Ski & Boot hire £162 (3xboots/4xski)
European breakdown upgrade £25
European car insurance upgrade £20
That's £1255 and i'm estimating around £150 diesel and £150 tolls return
So about £1550 for 1 week + food. Will self cater & eat out a few times.
For a family of 4 that seems pretty good considering half term 2014 cost me £4000, £1500 being flights and transfer hire car.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 25-03-15 12:30; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@dozey69, How much is deisel in France these days? It was about 1.1 at New year, but since then the euro has dropped in value. At 1.1 that is almost 30 pence a litre cheeper than the UK (or over £15 a tank full) so it is worth while rolling off the ferry with an empty tank and filling up in Calis on the way back.
Apart from the cost of the ferry back - a good saving and what appears almost give away lift passes (really 4 lift passes for £500, our 2 8 day lift passes for Les Arcs will cost us 250 euro each) that is more or less what I would expect to pay. Of course during the peak season: fuel, tolls, food, and lift passes cost more or less the same.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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How much is deisel in France these days?
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cheapest I've seen recently (Leader Price in Ugine) was €1.13 a euro but most supermarkets are selling it at nearer €1.19. Motorway prices a lot more, of course, but I CBA to faff around wasting time to save a few bob and always fill up on the motorway on the long trip down.
It's more expensive than it was in January - presumably because of the weakness of the euro.
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@johnE, Lift passes were 699 euros which at todays exchange rate is £514. I hadn't considered diesel being cheaper in France so may be a saving there.
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You know it makes sense.
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I will take a lot of convincing to book another package ski break for my family. The reason being that they often charter flights instead of using scheduled ones. We were stuck in resort for many hours this year as the plane that was due to bring us home had been diverted from one airport to another as the first had been shut. The passengers were diverted to the second and picked up there. The plane then went back to Heathrow and then had to come to us. Both our airport and Heathrow were open and the fault didn't lie with our part of "the chain". There were several other issues that I won't bore you with but for my part, I would like to be master(ish) of my own destiny now.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I would like to be master(ish) of my own destiny now.
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That's my feeling too. Stuff does happen. Several snowheads have reported substantial car breakdowns (I had a clutch give up the ghost on a roundabout in Aosta) and many independent travellers, as well as package holiday makers, spent nights in the cars when snow and rocks caused chaos on transfer days earlier this year. If you damage yourself and can't drive your car home, or your hired car to the airport, you sort yourself out.
But none of this is a big challenge in Europe, with good services and a sensible insurance policy.
And when you have had to solve a problem yourself (broken snowchain at midnight on a snowy road with the ploughs long stopped and 3 scared kids in the back - happened to people I know) you learn how to avoid - or deal with, the next one.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think its often a matter of confidence, and sometimes a matter of convenience. If you are confident about what you are doing and have the time to organise it DIY ski holidays are the way to go. You get more choice of destinations, usually better value for money accommodation and more freedom all round.
But if you are a little unsure about how to go about things, very short of time, or simply can not be bothered to put the effort into it, then a TO package provides the solution.
You have to go with what is likely to work best for you most of the time and accept that whichever you choose sometimes things just go wrong!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@dozey69, Yep the bundles of paper are a real pain, but I have found that having that printed out bit of paper with you really helps to prove your point on occasions if things may be going wrong! Injuries on holidays are always difficult whoever has done the organising! Have a good trip 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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having that printed out bit of paper with you really helps to prove your point on occasions if things may be going wrong!
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+1 recently I had to produce one piece of paper to get a broken windscreen mended in Italy. I was able to leave it with the hotel in Arabba and therefore not give up a day's skiing. If I'd only had it on my phone, then even if I'd had decent reception, that would have been a real pain.
I've also been asked for car documents, including insurance, both in Italy and France.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mayrhofen this Saturday, Chalet, flights and transfers £410 from Edinburgh with Crystal. Hard to beat that DIY. BUT that's last minute (price was from 10 days ago before anyone moans its not available now, although it might be). NY 2015/16 it is certainly cheaper for us to book hotel in Mayrhofen, fly KLM via Amsterdam and get the train. About £1400 saved. So it all depends I spose.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ghost Dog, no, that sort of last minute deal is likely to be pretty well unbeatable as the TO only has to get a bit more than the marginal cost of the extra holidays to make it financially worthwhile.
There are some impressive examples of good value in DIY hotel holidays here. DIY is also a good route for someone looking for a self-catering holiday outside the usual French offerings, which might look good value till you add in the "under occupancy" charges (and if you don't under occupy the accommodation is likely to be very cramped). There is an enormous range of French accommodation better than that typically offered by the TOs (Peak Retreats and Erna Low have some excellent offerings but they don't do conventional packages) but if you want to self cater in Austria or Italy DIY is often almost the only way to go. Our first package holiday was two weeks self-catering in Austria - excellent accommodation in a tiny resort - but it disappeared from the brochure after that year.
Incidentally it was helpful that that was a package, because our flight out of the UK was severely delayed by fog in the Midlands. We had to be bussed to a different airport. Having missed the coach transfer we then went by (rather uncomfortable) minibus, laid on by the TO (Inghams IIRC). That would have been more of a problem if we'd been travelling independently. Though it required some independence when we were just dumped by the minibus, with 3 tired kids and grandma, outside a block of apartments on a very cold and dark evening. The proprietor - eventually rustled up by the driver - thrust some keys at us in a grumpy fashion (yes, no doubt our late arrival had been inconvenient) and muttered some vague directions. We had to find our own way to the apartment. Numbering was idiosyncratic and the first door we tried wasn't ours - we beat a hasty retreat and eventually found our apartment which was comfortable, roomy and warm. It wasn't smart, but I don't need smart on a ski holiday.
I have since searched google for those apartments, out of curiosity really, but failed to find them. I wonder why Inghams dropped them?
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@Ghost Dog, Good find for your hols but the trouble I have with TO,s is its nearly always Saturday to Saturday. My son who's at college works Saturdays & finds it hard to get time off so DIY is the only option for us. Thursday to Thursday would impossible with a TO. Plus it means finishing work Wednesday lunchtime and not going back to the office for 11 days as you might as well take the Friday off after you get back
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@dozey69, there ARE a number of good TOs operating on a Sunday, not all of them are large companies. We went Sunday - Sunday this year with a TO, which we hadn't done for many years, and via Chambery. I'd pre-alerted my group who were used to the plethora of diversions at Geneva, that Chambery wouldn't compare on that front, but the reality was we all found Sunday to offer a much nicer travelling experience, and Chambery was far less stressful than Geneva on a Saturday ski changeover. So much so, my OH has said he'd never want to travel Sat-Sat again
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think Andorra has mainly Sunday changeovers? And I have friends in Les Arcs at the moment who did Sunday/Sunday (I think it was with Ski Total).
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Lots of smaller and independent chalet operators have Sunday changeovers. Crystal and Thomson also do Sundays in Serre Chevalier and the Milky Way as well as La Thuile.
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