 Poster: A snowHead
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I tried to book a ski trip today for next December for me, hubby + 2 kids in France with Thomas Cooks.
The price quoted was the same as I was quoted a just before Christmas when the rate was around 1:1.26.
I asked them how this was right as the Euro was now over 1.42 to the pound, so surely the cost of the trips should have come down.
It hasn't.
Why?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If the rate had gone 20% the other way would you have happily paid 20% more?
Unless we as a country enter Euroland someone somewhere has to take the currency risk, but where there's possible risk there's also possible reward!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The TOs might have done deals in Euros, but between now and December all kinds of things could change (including the contract negotiations over hotels and other accom, transfer buses etc) so they won't take the risk.
If we saw a sustained period, like 12-18 months of these kinds of rates, you might be in a better position and they might pass the savings on, but for now they will hedge their bets in case the rate goes south on them.
So the best way round this, assuming the rate isn't going to get much better, is to book accommodation direct and pay as much as you can now for December, and arrange your own travel. That has risk involved though, how much do you pay this far ahead to an individual or company in another country?
Alternatively book through a French/German/Other TO, and pay in Euros now. Their deals might be the same, but you get the much better rate. But do they operate under same rules as UK TO, and have flights from UK?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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How it's right is because it's consistent. Put the shoe on the other foot - would you be happy if you'd booked back before Christmas, only to discover someone else booking the exact same trip today for less this week because the exchange rate had changed?
Or would you prefer your quote from the TO to chase the day rate - accepting that there may be a surcharge payable the week before you fly because the rate has gone the other way?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sorry but there are some naive comments here. Currency movements can be hedged and you can bet the larger TOs do exactly that.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| Sorry but there are some naive comments here. Currency movements can be hedged and you can bet the larger TOs do exactly that. |
It depends on when the hedge was done. For 15/16 TOs may already have their hedge in place. Some may be hedging now for Summer 16 and in preparation for 16/17.
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A lot of the costs for a British Tour Op will be in pounds - such as flights (almost certainly), most staff costs, admin costs such as advertising, office staff, websites etc etc. As for the property costs quite a few are in Sterling and depending on the country and size of the property (especially if private) you may find the currency they need is Swiss 
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| Sorry but there are some naive comments here. Currency movements can be hedged and you can bet the larger TOs do exactly that. |
I work for a small TO and we have been able to reduce all our prices for next season by hedging our currency requirements. Of course the downside to this is that, if the € continues to fall, it’s possible that we could lose out on some extra profit by hedging, but this is offset by the certainty (and security) of being able to forward plan with a set rate for the majority of our needs.
The reason our Half Term prices have reduced by such a large amount has nothing to do with currency fluctuations, but rather it has to do with simply putting our foot down with our foreign suppliers. Once again there is a downside to this in that we had to drop our expansion plans as the new hotels (we were going to book) wouldn’t play ball with our new (one price for the wholes season other than New Year) policy, and so we didn’t book them. Now the only reason Half Term is more than the weeks either side is that the UK airlines put up their prices, "very" significantly.
PS. Hi to all the SH's I met this season and especially those who were kind enough to let me ski with them for a while. It's nice to be able to put a face to a name.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Lisa_BrentaSki wrote: |
I tried to book a ski trip today for next December for me, hubby + 2 kids in France with Thomas Cooks.
The price quoted was the same as I was quoted a just before Christmas when the rate was around 1:1.26.
I asked them how this was right as the Euro was now over 1.42 to the pound, so surely the cost of the trips should have come down.
It hasn't.
Why? |
Because vendors charge what they think the market will accept. In turn, you choose to buy from them - or not.
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Surely it's a question of the TO taking the currency risk? Assuming no hedging, if it moves in their favour, good for them. If rates had moved in the opposite direction would you be happy if they quoted you £10 last November and now wanted £15? (Or indeed, had you booked at £10, paid £2 deposit and were then asked for £13 having not read the fine print in the contract holding you liable for FX moves against the TO?)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Lisa_BrentaSki, Am l just being cynica when I read your 2 posts as... "Big tour opperators are ripping you off but the one I work for isn't" Surely I'm wrong?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@adithorp, I agree, that's slightly how I read it too.
@Lisa_BrentaSki, You answered your own question in your second post, and as a TO you already knew the answer anyway.
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@Lisa_BrentaSki,
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I asked them how this was right as the Euro was now over 1.42 to the pound, so surely the cost of the trips should have come down.
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I will buy your euros off you at 1.42 to the pound
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You know it makes sense.
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Large TO's definitely hedge. I do some of it for them
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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All large international businesses hedge, of course TO's do.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
our new (one price for the wholes season other than New Year) policy
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Isn't this a slightly odd approach?
Many, many years ago when I ran a chalet business, we simply paid a price for the season. Which was one thing.
If I was a hotel, unless your company was going to take a contractually binding allocation, I wouldn't change my pricing policy for you, just because you thought I should. NWTTYTSE, but (!) supply and demand rule. I'd want extra income in high weeks and I'd be happy to support you selling more and cheaper holidays out of season.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The TO's presumably are in the business to make money? They are quids-in, well done them is my view THEY took all the risk and it paid off.....but why should they pass the saving on?! I suggest the OP books direct and does a DIY trip if they don't like people making money, anyone really didn't see it coming that the £ vs € was on an upward trend curve this last few months?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| achilles wrote: |
Because vendors charge what they think the market will accept. In turn, you choose to buy from them - or not. |
This. 100%
The prices that TO's charge is dictated by market forces. If the elascity of the market dictates that there is still enough demand for the product at the current price, then the price will remain the same.
What generally happens in this situation (where one of the cost bases decreases for all companies) is that companies will hold fire to see who blinks first. Eventually, one company (who is most desperate to create more sales) will lower prices, and drive more business - and then other companies wil eventually be forced to follow to avoid a loss of sales.
Personally, I always DIY so am dealing a lot directly in euros, I've saved a packet on this years holiday.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Markymark29, Yes but not this high! Beer will soon be cheaper in Tignes than York.
Further to my previous post the going rate (around where I am) for a mid quality chalet is about €200 per bed (per person) per week for a 20 week season, a reasonable budget for food and wine of €65 a week per person and a return transfer from the airport another €65 (when you are filling a bus) that's only €330 expenditure over here so even now the savings aren't massive in the big scheme of things - but most welcome
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I very much doubt that the TO will have paid for the rooms already, and will do either after the December stay or in instalments beforehand if they have committed for the season. Who knows what the rate will be then, so the TO will be foolish to pass on any current £ savings to the customer.
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Why would someone who works for a TO ask this question?
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@chocksaway, @queen bodecia,
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Why did someone who runs a TO ask this question?
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Or, indeed, not use their own company
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@Handy Turnip, +1......if flights weren't such a rip off at Easter weekend I'd be going again for a long weekend, its just so expensive to get there! Was looking at flights from Manchester, Liverpool, Brum and Leeds last night and I just ain't going to pay £350 return plus ski carriage for flights, if they can sell last few remaining seats at that price fair play - just not to me......I'm getting my bike out!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I've saved a packet on this years holiday
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Our € income follows the £/€ rate pretty closely. When the crisis hit and £ tanked, we lowered our € rates aggressively which mostly resulted in a shift from mostly UK bookings to mostly EU ones. And reduced income. It had silver linings though, EU customers have two attractive features - they tend to repeat book and they take much better care of the properties than UK ones - as a sweeping generalisation.
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@under a new name, no generalisation there then!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is there an option to pay in euros on their website?? I did this for my trip I went on a few weeks back and saved over £150!! Worth looking into....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Markymark29, just our observations.
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| johnE wrote: |
@chocksaway, @queen bodecia,
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Why did someone who runs a TO ask this question?
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Or, indeed, not use their own company |
Maybe, even though the TO they work for has reduced their prices, they're still more expensive than Thomas Cook
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You know it makes sense.
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..... Or maybe they only fly from Heathrow
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Lisa_BrentaSki, how do you manage to take a Christmas ski holiday if you work for a winter tour operator? That's a secret I wouldn't mind knowing!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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She didn't say Christmas for the holiday she said December. So that was my assumption the reason they are going somewhere else is to g somewhere that starts earlier than their area allowing a pre-season (For them) holiday.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Lisa_BrentaSki wrote: |
Why? |
Why ask a question on a public forum you already know the answer to? If you want to tell us your thoughts that's fine - but obviously criticising your competitors publicly will be seen as biased and cynical self promotion.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I’ll try and answer the main points. Sorry if I miss anyone.
| adithorp wrote: |
| @Lisa_BrentaSki, Am l just being cynica when I read your 2 posts as... "Big tour opperators are ripping you off but the one I work for isn't" Surely I'm wrong? |
I didn't say they were ripping off people, just asked why the cost of the trip has not come down in line with the costs they pay out.
| under a new name wrote: |
Isn't this a slightly odd approach?
Many, many years ago when I ran a chalet business, we simply paid a price for the season. Which was one thing.
If I was a hotel, unless your company was going to take a contractually binding allocation, I wouldn't change my pricing policy for you |
We don’t think it’s odd. We negotiate with hotels on a peer to peer basis. Our clients have (many times) asked why the price of Half Term trips are more than the weeks either side of it. We looked at it and the basic reason is Supply and Demand. More people want to travel at HT than the week after, so companies can charge more, and they do. With airlines we are not big enough to be able to negotiate price so we have to pay the going rate for group allocations. But for most other suppliers we make up a significant proportion of their yearly income and we can negotiate. This does NOT mean that we bully them, it simply means that we and they understand it is better to have a full hotel, than not. As ski trips are price sensitive, if we can bring down the sale cost then it’s got to be in everyone’s best interest. Our hotel partners all agreed.
It’s notable that BA still has not released their group allocations for next year’s Feb Half Term. This would normally have been done weeks ago. They know that individuals will pay (much more) than groups and so maybe there will not be many group allocations available with BA for next Feb at all. This year they were selling some return flights from Gatwick to Venice for over £1,200. Of course there are some cheaper seats were available for those who booked earlier, but BA know that they can sell the seats for a very large amount due to Supply and Demand.
We have already contracted all our seats from London and Manchester from another airline.
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Why would someone who works for a TO ask this question? |
It's as I work for a TO, and so understand the systems, that I asked.
| dode wrote: |
| ..... Or maybe they only fly from Heathrow |
Next season all our London flights are from Gatwick
| Snow and Sunshine wrote: |
| @Lisa_BrentaSki, how do you manage to take a Christmas ski holiday if you work for a winter tour operator? That's a secret I wouldn't mind knowing!!! |
I'm going away during the 1st week in December with my family for a relaxing break before the season starts. Our season starts on Boxing day.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Lisa_BrentaSki wrote: |
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Why would someone who works for a TO ask this question? |
It's as I work for a TO, and so understand the systems, that I asked.
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So you asked a question because you already know the answer? Be honest, this is all about promoting your company isn't it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| Lisa_BrentaSki wrote: |
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Why would someone who works for a TO ask this question? |
It's as I work for a TO, and so understand the systems, that I asked.
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So you asked a question because you already know the answer? Be honest, this is all about promoting your company isn't it. |
Pretty crummy advert for company she works for when opener is "I tried to book a ski trip today for next December for me, hubby + 2 kids in France with Thomas Cooks".
So don't book with us book with Thomas Cook 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Lisa_BrentaSki, thanks for your reply. So, more or less, you have an implied allocation? Fair enough. Good that you have that strength of relationship with your existing hotels.
Being a pragmatic Scot, I'd sgn up for that deal in an instant, Married to a half mountain Italian I understand why you aren't getting the traction you might expect elsewhere 
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@Lisa_BrentaSki, I still don't quite understand the original premise of your question.
Does your TO increase/reduce prices throughout the season based solely upon the exchange rate?
Do you not understand that most TO's strike their deals with suppliers in advance and therefore it makes little sense to alter prices?
Did you genuinely not understand the reason why prices hadn't come down when you tried to book?
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| Lisa_BrentaSki wrote: |
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Why would someone who works for a TO ask this question? |
It's as I work for a TO, and so understand the systems, that I asked.
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So you asked a question because you already know the answer? Be honest, this is all about promoting your company isn't it. |
Looks like that to me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If Brentaski are so kind to their guests how come the no flight discount is fixed all season, at £120, when according to their publicity the only reason the price goes up for half term is the flight, which adds £180 to the price. Surely the no flight discount that week should be £300 per person?
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| Lisa_BrentaSki wrote: |
I tried to book a ski trip today for next December for me, hubby + 2 kids in France with Thomas Cooks.
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you're working for a TO you're quite proud of... so why are you trying to book your family holiday with a differente TO???
when I saw the title of the thread, I thought the question was a bit naive. Now it's clear it's really a promotional piece instead. It's naive to expect snowheads will fall for that tactic.
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