Skiing at Christmas

A snowHead

Hi everyone, i'm a newbie, so please be gentle with me Wink

I'm looking into taking the missus and daughter skiing for the 2015 Christmas week and have a few questions to ask. Prices are obviously a bit more than the rest of the season (with the exception of new year and Feb half term), so i'm keen to keep the prices down as much as possible.

Is it best to book early, or would it better to leave it to the last minute? Obviously if we leave it to the last minute there's going to be a bit of panic in the lead up as we won't actually have anything booked, and will be just hoping to get a good deal. What sort of reduction could we hope to get by leaving it to the last minute?

Location?...with Christmas still being relatively early in the season, would it be wise to opt for a higher altitude resort?

Christmas day skiing.......I assume the lifts are operational all day long?

Tour operators?.......not sure what the rules are on discussing operators here, but if it's ok to do so, can people recommend some good ones?

Pre booking lift pass/lessons for the child/equipment with a tour operator? I've had a look at their prices and they seem a little bit more than if you were to book these items separately. Is this the case?

A snowHead

I've done it several times and here are a few pointers:-

1. It's expensive.
2. A lot of hotels fill up quickly as locals book them.
3. Tour ops are fine, just go with whoever you think is best/cheapest.
4. Lifts are open as are shops. Boxing day might be a different story as far as shops go though.
5. It isn't as festive as you might think, our lad is 11 and I think this season's xmas away will be our last for a while as it isn't fun for him being stuck in a hotel/apartment over christmas when his mates are all out at home.
6. Christmas eve is the most festive night, christmas day is bit of a wash out unless you're in an English chalet.
7. Snow is snow, and as such unpredictable so just go with whats there at the time.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@mikeycharlton, welcome to SnowHeads

Of the peaks, Christmas is at the lower end, cost wise, along with Easter; it's certainly less than NY/HT

Again, of the peaks, Christmas is more likely to have something available at short notice, enabling you to see where the snow is rather than pre-book a high altitude resort to have as much snow security as possible. The reductions may or may not make up for the fact that you will need to compromise on at least a couple of factors - departure airport, quality/type of accommodation, flight timings (the 'better' times will go first), resort.

Christmas Day - a normal day in most resorts, with Christmas Eve the bigger event for locals.

Pre-booking; no real need to pre-book passes other than the convenience of not having to queue in resort. Much more important to pre-book lessons to ensure your daughter can get in with your preferred ski school and times, rather than be left with what IS left.

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@mikeycharlton, welcome to SHs

Would you be looking for an all in package with meals, or are you happy going more DIY and self-catering? Or somewhere in between! Appreciate self-catering isn't for everyone, but can be more flexibility on location etc if you go for an apartment.

We've often ski'd over Christmas and had our big Xmas dinner the week before going and took frozen leftovers to have a mini Xmas dinner on day.

After all it is free

Certainly, @pam w, the French and Swiss ones...

Having skied a lot of Xmas holidays, and the last 3 consecutive Xmas`s (you can see my reviews if you are iterested http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2684968&highlight=#2684968 http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2436064&highlight=#2436064 http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2212395&highlight=#2212395 ) It is always more of a gamble in respect of snow conditions that early in the season!

We always worked on the premise that being high/having fairly easy access to high skiing reduced the risk and I can not remember ever being in the Alps during the Xmas week when it was not possible to get to some skiing but I remember several occasions when I chose not to ski because the limited areas open were icy and overcrowded.

The year I first learnt to ski in the 1970`s, certainly in Austria, had a bad start to the season and we had to get high that year and this last Xmas had a bad start, it happens!

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@pam w, Certainly in Sportwelt and Dachstein the week before Xmas bug all was open apart from the larger areas. Xmas week pretty much everything was open apart from a minority of pistes (steeps etc..) which all then opened for NY week.
So yeah... 'most' of the alps with the exception of most of the other places that were open.

snow reports

thanks for the replies guys, some useful feedback there.

Yes the wife and I are experienced skiers, but junior would be a beginner - hence the need for lessons.

The festive side of things is not really that important. The main reason for choosing Christmas is because it seems to be the cheapest of the school holiday time options. The thought of spending Christmas away is nice too. Yes i'm aware all Europeans celebrate Christmas on the evening of the 24th, I just wanted to check that it didn't impact the lifts at all. As long as the lifts aren't partly closed for some of the days it's all good.

It seems as one of the main factors for it being more expensive than non school holiday time is the cost of the flights, which we all know rocket during holidays periods. Which has made me consider driving (from London).

I realise it's over 12 hours door to door, even to some of the closer resorts, but how much is it likely to cost in total for fuel/train/ferry/tolls? My car is pretty economical - average 60mpg.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@mikeycharlton, Laughing

You'll get plenty of advice on here about self-catering, but can be broken up (to give the wife a break) with a meal or two out.

ViaMichelin website will give you a good idea of costs for the drive. It's roughly £150 return for tolls, if you're clever with Tesco Points the Eurotunnel can be free!

FWIW - We paid £3060.92 for our Xmas trip in 2013 that's apartment, all travel, ski passes the lot! Family of 5

A snowHead

@flangesax, @pam w,

Zell am See was pretty good too at that period - though I hear actual Xmas day was probs 50% open. This was at like 29th or 30th IIRC - 100% open.
Still pretty damn good - Zell - town is 750m asl and these pics were probably taken 950m-1000masl.

Apartment for 2 for the week was 350 euro - 1 street (3 min walk) from the village gondola/centre.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@mikeycharlton, Driving - cos I am very sad this is the break down of that cost! Being strictly honest, there is probably a couple of hundred extra on there as we took a lot of food with us and probably a £100 cash. You may think there is a lot of fuel on there - but a Discovery really doesn't do 60mpg

2013 Xmas Costs
Premier Inn Thursday Night near tunnel 58
Beefeater Meal on Thursday night 97.42
Breakfast on Motorway 24.34
Fuel 74.82
Food Shop 69.46
Fuel 70.41
Food 11.44
Fuel (top Up) 36.48
Les Charmilles overnight stop Friday 184.09
food 25.65
Sherpa 6.8
Replacement key for apartment 11.13
Lunch out Xmas day 50.98
Wifi 25.65
Meal out 106.75
Tea at Eurotunnel return 33.28
Fuel 83.61
Sledging 25.6
Fuel 99.37
Ski Hire 175.55
Lift passes 744.72
Apt 231.54
Apt 671.83
Eurotunnel Free Tesco Points
Tolls 142

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We stayed in la tania this christmas. They had a torchlit decent for father christmas on christmas eve, should have been on ski's but lack of snow meant it wasn't, also had fireworks, music, etc. We had a whole chalet between us meaning we had friends and family with us. Christmas day was business as usual, lessons and skiing for everyone, then a meal in the evening. We opened a few presents first thing, the rest in the afternoon.

Lack of snow wasn't a major issue, there was enough open from snow cannon snow, but we won't be going again at christmas because of the lack of snow, and if we did, would leave it to last minute, rather than booking months in advance.

I think it felt festive, especially christmas eve, the log fire, brandy butter, cookies, mince pies, mulled wine all added to it, but I could have all that at home apart from I'd need to chop the wood and make it all Wink

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@mikeycharlton, driving means you can take lots of stuff to reduce your catering costs during the week. Costs are a bit lower for Christmas week than for New Year. Queues, IME, are much less of a problem than New Year, given similar snow cover (this year lots of French resorts had a good fall on the Saturday after Christmas which meant there were far more slopes open for that new year week). Though that snowfall also gave rise to enormous traffic jams and people spending the night in schools and sports halls (or, the unlucky ones, their cars).

Some people have reported good deals through snowtrex - apartments and often lift passes included too - in some of the less well known resorts, such as Chamrousse. Plenty of reports on Chamrousse here - mostly pretty positive, I think.
http://www.snowtrex.co.uk/search_specials/search_book.html?code=4645&subcode=%2Bsnowtrex&kwtype=b
£300 for apartment Christmas week and that includes a lift pass!

If you can find an apartment near the piste, so you don't need to "eat out" at lunch time (which tends to be expensive) you should manage within your budget.

Sun/Sun accommodation makes the driving a lot easier but tends to be hard to find, especially with the likes of snowtrex, in France.

This year, in many French resorts, New Year snow (though not terrific) was infinitely better than Christmas. But New Year is early season too - and much busier and more expensive. The snow gets worn out quickly with the numbers of people. I never ski at New Year, though I am usually in the mountains - because I don't like lift queues. I think Christmas is a good time to ski (escape all the awful Christmas hype and endless telly) and usually snow is OK. I ski in an area with a top altitude of only 2009m but until Christmas 2014 we had only had one poor Christmas, and one not-terribly-good in 13 years.

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After all it is free

We always picnic on the hill. If I took the wife and kids back to the apartment they'd never get out again, lazy sods.

I doubt conditions will be as bad for another 20 years as they were this Christmas but never say never.

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@mikeycharlton, Christmas is always a gamble.
On a good year there will be resorts with ghastly conditions, and on a bad year there will be resorts with lovely conditions.
You just don't know where they are until it happens.
And the "Go High" advice may increase your chances of decent snow, but high resorts are miserable places in bad weather - when the Big Snow came the end of January this year, Tignes was horrible, while down the hill St Foy was wonderful (trees).
Easter next year is early (late March) - if you have to go in school holiday time, I would go Easter rather than Christmas.

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You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Driving from London is very doable. We do Guildford to Morzine/Megeve in 10.5 - 11.5 hours, Les Arcs in more like 11 hours. If you've got 2 drivers you don't need to budget in an overnight stop, although we do the slightly crazy bit of driving down overnight Friday.
Given the choice of early Easter next year, or Christmas, I'd think I'd go Easter. We've done Christmas or New Year and then last week of March a fair few times, and on the whole the snow is more reliable late March. Christmas this year was dire, and New Year last year wasn't the best.
The year we did catered chalet for Christmas we got a pretty good discount booking about 3 weeks beforehand, £700 reduced to £500, and kids given kids discount for early tea, but then they ate with us anyway. We don't normally book that late but it was a bit of a last minute decision so as to avoid having to spend Christmas with my mother in law's weird new partner! Being in a British chalet for Christmas was nice, being in an apartment or Hotel might be a bit un Christmassy?

A snowHead

As we drove, we took a 3ft battery powered tree with lights and a few little decorations, this combined with Xmas music on iPod and decorations and festivities in village made it Christmassy. Maybe not as much as being at home, but skiing Xmas day made up for that

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

One inestimable advantage of being in an apartment is that you can make it as Christmassy, or not, as you like. I would not specially want to be in a hotel and unable to escape from their idea of "Christmassy" especially if it involved piped music.

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We did Christmas at Oz en Oisans Dec 2013 and had an apartment. We ate out with friends on Xmas Eve and it was lovely. Xmas day came and went though; very anticlimax for a Xmas Day. The only bonus was that it was snowing quite hard by lunchtime... This year, our friends returned having enjoyed it so much with us. They, bitterly disappointed with the conditions returned to the UK in time for Xmas Day, missing the classic Snowmageddon transfer chaos which frankly, was the only positive in their total waste of money holiday. (I would have stayed personally, any holiday is a holiday)...but they were miserable and fed up with looking at grass.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

We supply Xmas trees with lights Little Angel

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@Fruity, what a sad story. But I wouldn't have returned either. I was in the Alps this last Christmas and though it wasn't worth adult skiing on the few slopes open my 4 year old grand-daughter greatly enjoyed a nursery slope in pretty good nick. But we enjoyed the week - the same food and company as we'd have enjoyed at home, plus beautiful mountain scenery and some good walks. My daughter and family left on the Sunday so they enjoyed fantastic powder snow on that last Saturday.

Had nobody warned your friends that it's a bit of a risk, especially at such comparatively low altitude? I must say that I enjoy the mountains at any time of year, though nice pretty new snow is always good at Christmas.

If you only get one week of skiing a year then Christmas is definitely not a great choice, IMO. But almost anything beats the eatanddrinkandTVathon in the UK. wink

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I've spent Christmas in the mountains for so many years, I really can't remember the last time I actually had to spend it away from the slopes.

I have never had a bad Christmas in terms of skiing, i.e. I've always been able to ski, which beats sitting with a number of relatives &/or friends "enjoying" what the group feels is appropriate. The snow has been variable, about 25 years ago I actually got soaked to the skin in Schladming skiing on Christmas Eve, but on Christmas Day it was all white and continued in that vein for the rest of the period. This year I was, as has become usual for me, in my regular hotel from December 19th right through until 6th January. I met up with rumdiary and his family and we had a fabulous time skiing between Wagrain and St Johann-Alpendorf. We were even able to ski down to the bottom of the valleys by the end of the week. It was touch and go and the investment the whole area has made in snow-making certainly paid off big time. It is not high but it does top out at 2000+m in places. The village levels are hardly out of the ordinary either.

As for "piped" music, I don't stay in the type of hotels who feel it is necessary to inflict Musak, seasonal or not, on their customers. I actually don't know of any that do other than some of the more corporate chains. I always choose family run hotels, usually at least 3 star, but have been known to spoil myself in 4 and 5 star ones as well.

The most "miserable" Christmases we had in the mountains were in self-catering apartments on the odd occasion we tried them. Much nicer paying someone to cook and wash up, as well as make the beds and change the towels! Nice trying the different traditional foods served over the Christmas period, always miles better than the turkey and al the trimmings option!

After all it is free

My son in law who teaches in a huge comprehensive learnt yesterday that one of their Deputy Heads, aged just 31, is to be appointed as the new Head (the previous one having retired). It's a major feat for someone at that age. Apparently he is single and works all waking hours, 7 days a week, but doesn't expect everybody to be quite that dedicated. 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, will do. wink

@Samerberg Sue, yes, it really all depends on who you are with, doesn't it? We've had wonderful Christmases in the mountains - yes, the cooking has been demanding, and needed a lot of forward planning but we share out the work and it's never been too much and has meant the celebrations are affordable for everyone. Being with friends and relatives might demand some compromises on occasion, but that's life, isn't it? We've skied too, though I've often done a fair bit of child-care, as I get much more chance to ski than others do, but evenings with good food and drink and some silly games (and occasionally TV - one of the compromises I have to make) have been as enjoyable as the skiing. When it's getting dark by 4.30 there's a long evening ahead.....

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