Details on travelling by Eurostar/SNCF

A snowHead

A family that we know have decided that they wish to come skiing at new year for the first time. They don't fancy the drive but are very interested in taking the train. As I haven't done the train for a long time I have researched heavily on here to compile some up to date information to help them. Can you confirm if I have anything wrong and perhaps answer the questions?

Options:
Overnight Eurostar from St Pancras direct to Bourg, etc. Seats only (reclining?).
Daytime Eurostar from St Pancras direct to Bourg, etc. Seats only.
Eurostar to Paris - then to Gare Du Nord and on to sleeper with couchettes.
Eurostar to Paris - then to Gare d'Austerlitz and get on the regular french sleeper services with couchettes.

Cost (if booked at release date):
Eurostar to Bourg overnight direct: £170
Eurostar to Bourg overnight direct: £150
Eurostar return to Paris: £70
Paris to Bourg sleeper: 60 Euros

When to buy:
French tickets sold on a rolling 3 months before - so new tickets released every day.
Eurostar is 120 days (rolling?).

Places to book:
http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en (for Eurostar only?)
http://uk.voyages-sncf.com/en/ (for all?)
www.seat61.com (for all?)
http://www.rail-canterbury.co.uk/ (for all)
https://loco2.com/ (for all)

Paris changeover (if required)
Stripped from another post: "If you're doing it for the first time Gare du Paris > Gare du Lyon I would give an hour. The least I've left is 40 minutes and it was tight as my TGV was 15-20mins late and caught by Eurostar with only 15-20mins spare. Assuming you're happy to take the the RER (Metro) it is a 15 minute journey without changes and I think far cheaper and quicker than a taxi. Gare du Lyon has two different areas to the station the main concourse and an area tucked away a little called the Salle Méditerranée. It is all signposted with large timetables, but be careful that you find the right one in time."
Any info on Gare d'Austerlitz?

Information links:
http://www.snowcarbon.co.uk/how-change-paris/transfer-paris-nord-paris-lyon
So does this website: http://www.seat61.com/Paris-metro.htm
More info https://loco2.com/blog/cheap-european-train-tickets-and-how-to-find-them

Other bits:
Are there economical Premier or First Class options worth considering or looking at?
Can you get an exclusive couchette cabin for 4?

Is there anything else I have forgotten to mention... transfer buses perhaps?

A snowHead

All I would add is that the E* seats don't recline at all, in standard class at least. I did the overnight in 2008 and I reckon I got about an hours sleep each way, but I'm not a great sleeper on transport. Would probably take a sleeping pill these days.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Next season there is the possible added option of Eurostar to Lyon. Then local trains to Bourg. Eurostar have not confirmed their Jan 2016 timetables yet, so might not happen.

Advantage is when you get to Lyon you have only have to get to another platform. Cost will be cheaper than the Paris route.

Disadvantage (1) is that at present the local connecting train requires two changes - but that might improve when SNCF/TER release their winter timetables.

Disadvantage (2) is the return Eurostar Journey from Lyon is a joke - it's not a sensible option due to the extra hour in Lille for passport/security checks (and you have to get off the train with all your luggage - only to get back onto the same train and in the same seat when checks done). The return journey is better via Paris.

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@Layne, watch put for the "do you mind taking out luggage as you're driving" question

Assuming you're going at same time ans driving that is

You'll need to Register first of course.

Layne, you could add Capitainetrain to your list of booking sites. Also, if it is like last year, the (SNCF sleeper) trains for the Christmas period will be released mid-October rather than 3 months in advance; tickets are likely to go on sale early (6am CET) and the cheapest sell out quickly at peak times. Several of the sites, certainly capitaine and possibly others, will email info about booking dates if you register. First class couchettes on the SNCF sleepers are for 4 and you can request exclusive use for <4 people at a cost, assuming there's availability.
We found it easy to find the train at Gare d'Austerlitz but it was freezing cold with limited waiting room space in February, so suggest to your friends that they try to avoid waiting there for a prolonged period if at all possible. Also we found the sleeper cold, possibly because we were already frozen from waiting at the station, so warm comfy clothes for sleeping (or even a light sleeping bag) might be a good idea if they go for the Intercites de nuit option.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@alr1970, I will not mention reclining seats to them just in case.

@AndrewsPeppers, will keep an eye for that one but not mention it yet.

@Boris, ha ha, yep - we already joked about that! Well, at least, I think they were joking Shocked

@mgrolf, cheers for the extra info, will add that.

@chocksaway, good spot. Yeah, the only time I did via Paris we got the sleeper at Nord, must have still been in my head!

All, are my costs about right? It was a bit of a guestimate based on posts I'd read...

@Layne, we did the Bourg sleeper last year. It was half term, and the sleeper leg was rather more expensive than you suggested - IIRC maybe 90 Euros each way.

The Paris stop works really well. Rather than rush across the city, I'd recommend giving yourself a fee hours and taking a chilled evening meal with a glass of wine.

We slept really well on the sleeper, but luggage space is at a huge premium on the train. I would have paid the premium for first class, but our family of five wouldn't fit in a first class cabin.

With care, you can get 8 comfortable days skiing on the train instead of 6 on the plane; it obviously helps if your accommodation will take your luggage early, though. We found it very civilised - we changed on the train (careful packing helps here, and skiing base layers actually make great nightwear), had a lazy breakfast in resort and started skiing at around 1000am. On return, we had dinner and beer in Bourg after a full day skiing, and, again, changed on the train. Breakfast in the Parisian sun was a joy, so, again, I recommend not rushing the transfer.

Personally, I found the train much more pleasant and relaxed than flying. I'll definitely do it again if I can make it work.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@Layne, we are regular travellers to Moutiers by train. We often use the tube to get to St Pancras, a train from Milton Keynes would take a similar time, our experience is that the door to door journey time using the direct service is only about an hour more than flying (assuming no delays on either mode of transport) and train is usually less stressful. Bourg is another 45 minutes to get to the end of the line.

Having used the Eurostar direct daytime service and the direct overnights a number of times, I echo the comments about comfort. Daytime is fine, nighttime is good in that you can get the extra 2 days skiing but it can be difficult to get much sleep because of the seating. And the fact that the light are not turned off or dimmed! I recently queried this and Eurostar customer services responded saying the lights do not have this facility!!!

Bigger seats that slightly recline and give more room are better and can be found in standard premier, albeit at higher cost. In premier you also get a meal and one little bottle of wine. On the overnights you get a branded blanket to take with you and use again on the return, they will not give you another one.

As someone else said, the sleeper with couchettes goes from Gare du Austerlitz. Haven't travelled this way but did find out that first class cabins have four couchettes and in second class there are six couchettes. Cabins are segregated by gender unless you book all the berths.

It's definitely possible to use the daytime Eurostar to Paris and transfer by the RER to Gare du Lyon to get the daytime TGV to Bourg. Did this for our recent Easter trip. The second class TGV is acceptable while first class is much better, lovely comfortable wide seats. We found one hour is plenty of time to use the RER going out, it actually took about 30 minutes, and it's one train on line D with the second stop being GdL. Coming back, our booking had allowed us 2 hours and it was just as well because for some reason our tickets for the RER would not let us through the entry barriers (eventually slipped through behind someone else) or out the other end (found a nice staff member eventually to let us out). If anyone knows why our tickets did not work coming back, then I would be interested to hear the reason.

You need longer coming back because of the check in and luggage scan at GdN, and the waiting area is basic and crowded. But at least it avoids the faff with getting on a train, only have to get off again at Lille for a luggage scan. I understand why, but must be a pain.

Get RER tickets in advance, you can buy them in singles on the Eurostar buffet car from London, at 2 euros each person. St Pancras info desk after passport control sell only books of ten tickets. The RER is an easy transfer but will be more of a faff with skis. It is also busy and nothing like as clean as London Underground.

Hope that helps your planning.

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Cheers @Jonny Jones and @andy1234

What are the transfer bus options from Moutiers and Bourg please?

snow reports

I've done this journey regularly over the last 30 years, the last 10 yrs with a family of 6. Eurostar direct during the day is the least stressful but most expensive option. Eurostar to Paris, metro and then couchette is simple. Rail Canterbury is a good bet for tickets. Get a taxi from Bourg (or wherever) - it is almost the same price as the bus for a family of 4 or larger. Please PM for anything else you want to know.

You know it makes sense.

@CaravanSkier is that bookable in advance?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

My heart is sinking at this news about stopping at Lille. We have Eurostar booked early January overnight both ways through a Crystal package to Bourg and then onto Tignes, and we have four small children and will be taking skis etc. The journey was already going to be stressful enough, without having to get up at, what, 5am with everything and then back on again?

It's putting me off doing Eurostar in the future as the main reason for doing it was to minimise changes/potential to lose children/luggage with so much. This makes it no different to getting the plane, worse in fact.

A snowHead

@sparklies, you'll probably be fine - that sounds like the standard Eurostar ski train, which does passport and luggage checks at Bourg and Moutiers (this is why they don't pick up at Aime - no facility for checks there). It's the new route from Lyon that has the faffing at Lille.

A snowHead

Oh phew, thank goodness for that! I was feeling sick at the thought, and also a little confused because when I went with my daughter last month we did the luggage/passport check at Bourg but thought there might have been something new with the legislation that came in last week.

That's interesting to know that's why they don't pick up at Aime. I always wondered!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

My brother, sister in law and father were on the Moutiers - St Pancras train on Saturday and they were required to disembark and go through a passport control at one of the stations en route. Not sure which, possibly Lille. Combined with having to delay for the Tignes passengers (due to the road closures/rock fall?) the train was 1hr20m late arriving at St Pancras. Which, on a positive note, gives them an entitlement to a 12.5% refund on the tickets, or a free one way ticket (should they chose it).

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One thing missed above (I think!) @Layne, is the Eurostar direct ski train bookings open a lot earlier than 120 days - we booked 31st July 2014 for Easter this year. They seem to open the booking for the whole season in one hit rather than on a rolling basis. I am on the capitainetrain and Eurostar mailing lists to get advance notification but the Easter week (28th March - 4th April) daytime Saturday train sold out really quick I believe. The standard class - bearing in mind it was Easter week so I should imagine treated as a peak week - was £299 rtn per adult and £210 rtn per child. We could have got away with not getting a ticket for the 3 year old but elected to spend the extra so we had a seat each to sprawl over for the duration.

@larkim & @sparklies, I suspect this stopping at Lille was due to failure of scanners at Moutiers as we were on the train the previous week with the same issue. Hence we had to go through security at Lille before returning into the UK - here's hoping it's fixed for next season. It was truly horrific with a 3 year old, 5 year old, bags and skis and board. As we were 1hr30+ late in we have a free one way ticket we can use next year and already have it on the agenda to get a double wheeled ski and board bag as that would make it a lot less painless!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

It would be lovely if we were part of the Schengen Agreement and didn't have to do passport checks when travelling to France.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The stopping at Lille on the return SkiTrains last weekend was due to the rockfall closing the line near Moutiers. At Bourg everyone had to travel to Moutiers in coaches, and there are no security facilities in Bourg for the coaches.

As there are no more Eurostar skitrains this season no other skitrains will be affected, but the Bourg-Moutiers line will be out for at least a month for local trains (and the TGVs/sleepers that use the line).

The rockfall is huge, photos show a very long stretch of track under rocks.

After all it is free

@Layne,

You can find the bus transfers from (say) Moutiers to ski resorts here:

https://www.altibus.com/

In my experience (of going to Mottaret) they are pretty good.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Layne, i think most of your misprints have now been sorted.

Options:
Overnight Eurostar from St Pancras direct to Bourg, etc. Seats only (reclining in 1st class). Only runs at weekends: out Friday night, return Saturday night.
Daytime Eurostar from St Pancras direct to Bourg, etc. Seats only. Only runs Saturday.
Eurostar to Paris Gare du Nord, tnen RER D to Gare Lyon for day trains - run all week: more trains weekends. Usually change at Chambery, some direct trains at weekends.
Eurostar to Paris Gare du Nord - then Metro to Gare d'Austerlitz and get on the French sleeper services with couchettes. Go for 1st class, but book early.

Jonny Jones, not 90€ if you book early enough - can do first class for 54€ one way if you book microseconds after tickets released.

mgrolf, couchette compartments do have heating - i find it usually too warm, and the first thing i do before getting settled is turn it down. True that luggage space is not vast - fine if 1st class and only 4 of you, but tough in 2nd class with 6.

andy1234, Couchette Cabins are NOT segregated by gender.
You can get RER tickets in advance, but not really worth it. They charge 2€, when standard ticket is 1.70€, and they are easy to get at one of the machines on the way to the metro/RER.

Agree Gare Austerlitz is dreary place to wait. Try Gare Lyon instead, and then walk over to Austerlitz about 45 mins before your night train is due to leave. Its quite a pleasant walk and takes about 15 minutes. NIght train often starts boarding about 30 mins before leaving.

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snow reports

You know it makes sense.

@Boris, actually they'd probably still want luggage checks before going through the tunnel. Which is fair enough.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

@larkim, that's rubbish for you Sad

Sounds as if they invoked the "outside our control" element on the delay compensation as it was the rockfall rather than the unexpected scanner failure which caused the delay. They did announce on the train we were on that the delay would fall under the compensation arrangements.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm not particularly bothered to be honest as it was my brother, father and sister in law that were on the train - but I arranged the tickets, so I'm dealing with Eurostar.

I've asked them to confirm which part of their customer charter allows them to invoke such "acts of god" type calculations, just for sport more than anything else! I'll check with those that did travel though whether they announced that the delay would fall under the scheme though. In all honesty, I don't think there is much difference between a scanner failure and a rock fall in terms of things that they can control. Have you emailed for your compensation yet?

Help!!

Details on travelling by Eurostar/SNCF

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