Courmayeur Skiing Advice and Off Piste Guide

A snowHead

Hi All,

I'm new here and making my first ever trip to Courmayeur. I'm having a difficult time getting a grasp for my options once there and would love some advice.

We will be there for three days and we are advanced skiers (comfortable skiing most terrain but definitely not total experts) who enjoy off piste so long as it isn't overly technical (don't want to need gear like crampons, rope, axe etc) and we are very safety conscious so preferably in areas very low in avalanche risk. If we go off piste, we will rent a guide or preferably join some kind of small group to reduce costs so the two of us don't need to pay for a private guide. Do you have any advice on where to go to make this possible? Any links or recommendations?

I am looking at a trail map and it appears that you can get from Courmayeur to Aiguille du Midi via gondola or cable car. When I do some googling, however, it seems unclear whether the lift actually goes up to the same summit that the Chamonix cable car reaches or if it stops in Punta Helbronner (if so, what is the difference and what would we miss out on?). We are likely to hire a guide or join a group just one of our three days there so we want to try to make it special. Would it be possible to go to Aiguille du Midi from Courmayeur as a day trip with a guide or group? Any advice on doing so?

Finally, for our other two days where we will need to stick closer to the pistes since we won't have a guide and aren't knowledgeable/comfortable enough to really head into the back country on our own, do you have any recommendations on where to ski at Courmayeur? What lifts would you take and where would you recommend spending our time? Ideally we could find some really nice terrain just alongside the pistes somewhere, and if the conditions are okay, get some nice powder turns in.

Let me know what you think!

A snowHead

I've never yet managed to hire a guide at Courmayeur due to varying company / conditions so can't advise specifically butt the bureau des guides (above the bar des guides) were very helpful and informative and do offer the chance to join organised groups

The cable car up to punta helbronner does lead up to the vallée blanche, as I understand the main thing you miss is the walk down the arete. Alternatively you can ski back down to Courmayeur

If you ski hard, you can ski the entire area (every piste and every lift) in one day. There's some nice tree sking to be had off the blacks leading back down towards val veny

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Thanks for the info. What is the vertical of actual good skiing at Courmayeur? The way you described being able to ski the whole mountain in a day makes me a bit worried it's on the small side. We are also considering Chamonix for our three days but I've already been there and wanted to try something new. With that said, my friend has not been to either, and I'm wondering if a place like Grands Montets is a lot bigger and has more to offer. I'm trying to look at a trail map of Courmayeur but it is a bit confusing to look at and it's quite hard to gauge how much vertical of good skiing there actually is. Hopefully I'm just worrying for no reason but I'd love to hear more thoughts on the skiing there.

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I've had a weekend and two week long trips to Courmayeur. I love it and would happily go back - in fact it's almost inevitable that i will do so - but then again I'm not a skiier who judges resorts by the number of pistes or kilometres. Some of the best days I've had have involved only one or two lifts which we've just lapped around all day

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I spend the winter in Chamonix and visit Courmayeur very often. It is very different to chamonix in many nice ways. It has plenty of non glaciated off piste real estate, the best of which you will still benefit from a guide.
There is the hellebronner where a guide can take you down the Vallee Blanch or numerous other routes on the front side. There are several great routes off the Arp crest with a good bit of vertical and doesn't get trashed a quick as chamonix.
The pistes are great if a little limited and often has better snow than chamonix with its extensive snow making and protective trees. The major plus of Courmayeur has to be the food and drink. Don't miss the hot chocolate or the bomberdinos.
It's ideal for a three day trip if you get a guided day.

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You can or you could take another cable car across from the Helbronner to the Midi doesn't make much difference skiing wise and it's very expensive but it's a fantastic view. If you want to ski from Helbronner just head down towards the crags of Mont Blanc du Tacul and join the via-normal.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The helbronner to midi cc is closed in the winter.

After all it is free

Wow, I certainly came to the right place. Thanks a lot everyone.

A few follow ups. Regarding getting a guide or joining a group, can anyone give any specific insight into how to join a group to save a bit of money? Do you need to book it far in advance or is the night before adequate? Is there anyone you would contact now?

Regarding Aiguille du Midi, is there any reason to take the bus in the morning to use the lift in Chamonix or that'd be a waste of time and money vs just going to punta helbronner?

Do you recommend getting the all around Mont Blanc ski pass or just paying each day wherever you go? It sounds like, weather permitting, we will do at least one day in Courmayeur, one day Aiguille du Midi, and final day up in the air either being Courmayeur again or somewhere in Chamonix.

Gianni Carbone is probably who you want to look at for guiding. We used him for the VB from the Courmayeur side. Really nice guy, speaks great english and gets a lot of business from British skiers. He has his own website-just Google him and it should come up. I think others snowheads have also used him and agree he is double plus good!

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I would not get the bus to chamonix to go up the Aiguille, unkless you are desperate to walk the arete

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Assuming you've got good conditions, and you're happy off-piste, I wouldn't worry about the size of Courmayeur. There are several long off-piste routes, each with a few variations, and you'd need 2 or 3 days to cover the following with main variations:

From Cresta d'Arp, there are several options. There are 2 main valleys to ski down (both itineraries marked on the piste map, but not on the ground) - 1 of them brings you back to Courmayeur, the other ends up near La Thuile
From Cresta Youla, there are several variants off the back, which come out down Val Veny, and end up at Zerotta. You can also get to Val Veny from Cresta d'Arp with a short stomp
Although it doesn't look like it from the piste map, you can come down from Plan Checrouit staying piste-right, which takes you into a separate valley, and joins the red piste just after the valley floor.

Of these, Cresta d'Arp is more serious with regard to navigation, but if the guide has taken you down the other routes, then they would be easy to repeat on your own (though be careful off Cresta Youla, as the main route ends in a few gullies, which can be tricky to negotiate, and you won't be able to tell from above)

For guiding, I'd start with the Courmayeur Guides Office - I think they're pretty active with off-piste guiding in winter

snow reports

Great information. I really can't thank you guys enough. While I'm happy off piste, I have very little tolerance for risk and I am aware of my own ignorance so I would not want to venture anywhere known to have significant avalanche risk and if the avalanche reports are showing a real risk, I'd want the guide to keep us as far as possible from vulnerable areas. I hope it'd still be possible to have a great time off piste while staying in places that are 99.9999% safe (of course I realize nothing is a certainty) but I guess that is something to ask the guides.

Do you guys think buying the Ultimate Mont Blanc Ski Pass is worth it? (http://www.compagniedumontblanc.co.uk/en/lift-passes/mont-blanc-unlimited) Do you buy tickets in advance online or just when you get to the mountain?

Or is it more economical and simple to just buy a ticket in the morning wherever you are skiing that day? If we have three days, we'd expect at least two to be in the Courmayeur area with a chance of one day in Chamonix or ending up in Chamonix if skiing off piste there and needing to return to Courmayeur in the evening by bus.

You know it makes sense.

@insidemanpoker, buying multi day tickets is cheaper, but for three days it won't make that much difference, the other benefit is not having to queue each day, this is more of an issue at weekends. If you do the VB from Courmayeur you won't need a chamonix pass that day, just maybe a one way down on the Montenvers train. Buying in advance online is no benefit unless you already have a smart card.
If it were me I would buy as I went along to keep maximum flexibility.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I'm having a bit of trouble finding good guiding options. I've emailed here http://www.guidecourmayeur.com/montebianco/home-guide-alpine-courmayeur-english-programs-winter-ski-snowboard.html but they have limited options and only could offer a group on Vallee Blanche. My main concern with that is that they might be skiing the Vallee Blanche classic which I have heard is very flat and probably not the most fun way to spend a day and they can't comment on the quality of the others in the group so I can't know if they can take a more fun way down than the most flat route.

Any other ideas where to turn for a good guided group? I've emailed Gianni Carbone but still waiting to hear back and would like to find some more options.

I'm also a bit worried the conditions will be deteriorated quite a bit as I see the forecast for the next five days is warm and sunny. If that is the case, some alpine touring could make for a really fun way to explore the mountains. Any suggestions for doing that specifically or is that just as easy to do with any guide as anything else?

I'd really love to get one or two days with someone with inside knowledge there but it seems quite expensive if you can't find a few other people to join up with. Is there any easy way to do this? Any place in town to link up with people or resource to do it online in advance? I am not totally opposed to a private guide but it would be much more ideal to split the costs with a group of 4-6.

I'd love some more names of people or companies I can email for guided days to try to get this ball rolling because I am really struggling to organize the off piste situation. I wish we had more time, but with only two days to really make this happen (21st and 22nd), I don't have the flexibility to just figure it out when I get there. All suggestions welcome Smile

A snowHead

A snowHead

Big plus for Gianni- he was great with us and our kids.
He might be able to point you on if he's booked which is quite likely.
Apart from Yulla and Arp- which probably need guiding at least for the first time as the routes aren't too obvious- lots of "between the lifts" off piste.
La Thuile might be worth a day as well if you have transport by way of variation- and some great off piste off the top as well.
Greats restaurants as well- the slow cooked suckling pig at Petit Mont Blanc at Zerotta our favourite! Worth booking though as can get very busy.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Ugh, you have totally hit my weak spot. Slow cooked suckling pig sounds delicious Smile

I haven't heard back from my email to Gianni yet but hopefully soon.

I really appreciate the suggestions. I agree that between the lift off piste will be fine and won't require a guide for us. But I see the conditions are looking very warm right now and there is a good chance we will have totally spring conditions which makes me want to do a day of touring more. Do you have any leads on where to go to join a few others to have a randonee skiing day? As I said before, we don't want to do anything at all on the dangerous side, but would be happy to hike 1500m and ideally get some great views, some good turns, and have a fun tour.

Do you have any specific recommendations of how to spend a day if it is warm and totally spring like?

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I would recommend Pila over La Thuile for a great day option. Navigation is easy, parking is easier, the lift pass is cheaper, it is more sheltered and the off piste is very visible to the first timer. Youla is not avalanche prone, follow the tracks, but you might have to be a little creative crossing the river at the bottom. Worth getting on the Chamonix thread and asking the condition. Courmayeur is worth it for the food alone - forget Maison Vielle (over rated and off hand service), La Chaumiere has outstanding views, at Chiecco Anna will give you an unforgettable experience and Grolla is very good for Polenta if a little pretencious late season.

Traverse behind Youla and there are plenty of short tours visible. Don't do anything front side in the main valley, the avalanche risk is too high. Or hire some cross country skis in the stunning Val ferret or do a short tour up to the Refugio Bonatti (tremendous refuge cuisine) or to the Elizabetta Soldini in Val Veny.

Oh, and if it is too warm have lunch and then head to the outdoor springs in Pre St Didier for "happy hour" - prosecco in the outdoor springs!

Rob Jarvis of High mountain Guides often does groups in Courmayeur. Worth a try.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks again and again. I'm getting pretty excited to get there already Smile

Just out of curiosity, on the piste map (https://skimap.org/data/2066/1/1259378347jpg_render.jpg), is the area within the black and yellow border controlled for avalanches or is it just some kind of arbitrary off piste guideline but doesn't have any practical implications beyond it being the borders of where you can ski and return to the lifts?

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As the map key says, the black and yellow dashed lines show rough guides to itinerary offpiste routes - down from Hellbronner to La Palud, from Youla down Val Veny and from Arp down to Dolonne, towards Pallesuieux or even La Balme on the road to La Thuile

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@insidemanpoker, these itineraries are not at all like the ones found say in Austria where they are marked and to some extent avi controlled. They are not marked at all, and not avi controlled, which is significant as the Hellbronner is south facing and enjoys a huge height range. Arp and Youla to val veny is more north facing and apart from a couple of short terrain traps safe. Youla to dolonne is ok except for the bottom section which can be avoided. Arp to la Balme is long and flat and south facing and needs good conditions to be safe, and is most likely not on at the moment with all the warm weather we are having.

Good info here, the book has English text as well as Italian and French.
http://www.courmayeur-montblanc.com/freeride

After all it is free

@insidemanpoker,

not specific to courmayeur because I havent skied there but to find an off-piste group I would start by emailing the guides office telling them that you would like to join a group for off-piste of introductory ski touring sometime over the three day period. They are likely to tell you that it depends on what other interest they get and they may only know near the time. If you can be flexible then they can call a day or two before saying we have enough people for a group on say Saturday - are you still interested?

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Do you guys think it'd be worth the drive to a place like Champoluc while staying in Courmayeur? If these forecasts are at all accurate, places around Italy are going to get dumped on with 1 meter storms but Courmayeur isn't forecast to get more than a dusting. What would you do? Here are the forecasts I am referring to:

http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Courmayeur/6day/mid

http://www.snow-forecast.com/overviews/picks

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The eastern end of the Aosta valley has had much more snow this year. Spring conditions are good. If you might come back then taking a trip to explore Champoluc and the Monta Rosa area is highly recommended.

snow reports

Hello Insidemanpoker, 3 good friends of mine went one month ago on an off-piste / freeride skiing day with one of the Italian guides from this mountain guides' association. http://goo.gl/v3ylPl
They were all of them super happy by their ski experience. I'm sure you can talk to one of their guides and set up what you are looking for and maybe join one of their already organised groups.
Have fun !!!

Old(ish) thread - but can anyone advise on the Youla to Zerotta itinerary for snowboarding - the indicative line on the piste map and cross referencing with Google earth makes it look like it might finish pretty flat.

Any advice appreciated!

Cheers

Matt

You know it makes sense.

@MT2000, yes it's flat. It's a bit more than an itinerary and finishes down some gullies before the flat section, that you would not want to be in on the wrong day. Today being one of those days. It's not marked on the ground at all. It's often done from the arp.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I would avoid Zerotta on a snowboard as there is a very long flat section. Gullies at bottom of the run are avalanche prone so need to check local avalanche conditions.

A snowHead

I was there on Thursday; both entry points in to the itinerary down to Zerotta were sketchy. The lower was very bare and, I understand, had some dodgy looking snow in the heat.

The higher required a walk over the ridge, as it was bare, and a fairly exposed icy bump run before you got into the nice bits.

We did the other direction off the Arp and back into the bottom of the resort too; a bit steeper with a trickier finish, but better snow.

When were you thinking of going?

A snowHead

We're headed to Courmayeur for 4 days tomorrow. A lot to consider with the current and forecast snow conditions.

Mocha - did you ski the Dolonne from the Col d'Arp?

Has anyone recently skied or have condition info on the Toula glacier, Col d'Entreves, Col de Rochefort?

Thanks

Pablo

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@PabloScot, yes we skied both runs off the Cresta D'Arp, the first over Col d'Arp and down to Dolonne.

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Will be in Cham Friday and Courmayeur Sat & Sunday. I'm only going off piste boarding, my skiing is still not good enough, so the Zerotta flatness sounds worth avoiding. I suspect the iciness has been covered with the latest dump and thanks for the heads up on the gullies.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@PabloScot, skied the Toula today. It was very nice. Lots of untracked snow. It was sort of stiff powder. A word of warning, there's a tricky cornice above the staircase which some skied but most were roping down. Also we waited an hour on the stair due to a clod up at the bottom which was quite strait forward to negotiate.

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@jbob, I think we must have been there the same time as you. It was the first time we had done anything like that and was glad we we roped down! Even with the rope I was struggling to hold an edge but I managed to get down in albeit in a not particularly stylist manner! Was glad of the wait on the stairs. I was knackered after the walk/board round from the top station. I really enjoyed ride back to the midstation it was the highlight of our week.

@MT2000, we did the zarotta on boards from youla. The top few metres were pretty Rocky but once through that we enjoyed some really nice powder. There was a long walk/scoot at the end but I wouldn't let that put you off if the snow is good as the walk was on a firm track rather than deep soft snow.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@jbob,
Too right, went down the Toula the day after (Saturday). Very nasty for 20/30 feet down to the ladders. At all costs avoid arriving there behind guided groups of 12. Penalty = an hour and a half delay. The snow was starting to transform above the half way station.

The bottom of the stairs is fine if you ignore the fact that the last ladder is dangling on a bit of hairy twine!

After all it is free

@HammondR, I jumped in as two ropes were being taken in after lowering skiers, unfortunately I did land on my ass. Without the last wobbly ladder it would have been "interesting" the gully to the left didn't look that bad, and would avoid the jump and ladders.

Hi I know this is a really old thread but did any of you have look finding a guide. I am solo and would like
To join a group!!! Thanks so much

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Hi I know this is a really old thread but did any of you have look finding a guide. I am solo and would like
To join a group!!! Thanks so much

Help!!

Courmayeur Skiing Advice and Off Piste Guide

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