Not sure if "the piste" is the best area for this, apologies if the mods wish to move it.
In September me and Mrs RLTP are thinking of 10 days travelling around the Alps, then heading to the Nurburgring. I am wondering if anyone can hep with a route which would be best to take. Haven't got a clue where to go, stay, roads etc. Obviously we don't want to be sat on motorways once we get to the Alps. Lovely country roads, some "high altitude "Col's". Anyone ever done this or can you recommend some nice places we should go to?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If you have a Michelin road atlas the "picturesque" roads have a green stripe along them - helps with route planning.
Be aware that a lot of the alpine places you might have visited in the ski season will be very "closed" in September.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Ricklovesthepowder, A few years a go a few pals and I did a road trip. Part of the route took us from Montreux over the Grand St. Bernard, into Italy and off to Lake Como. From Como we headed to Interlaken via the Gotthard pass. We were going to do Nurbergring but had to cancel that. So we headed back to Geneva from Interlaken via Gruyere. A great trip.
@pam w, When you say closed, what do you mean? The bigger resorts would be open wouldn't they? Morzine, tignes, Verbier, Zermatt, Ischgl etc? When I say open, I mean hotels etc.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
it's a very good idea to take in an Italian lake or two en route.....
Done a few Alps trips with mates. Are you planning 10days total or 10 just in the Alps? What are you driving and how hard? That can have a big influence on which are the best roads,
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@adithorp, 10 days in total, maybe up to 2 weeks if needs be. would want 3 days at Nurburgring. Driving a highly tuned Focus ST, all roads have to be paved and smooth due to low ground clearance.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Ricklovesthepowder, I've not been to Tignes in September - been in October, and it's mostly closed. Some hotels and restaurants in the bigger places would be open, but a lot would be closed in the "between seasons" months. Even the places which have a vibrant summer season (e.g. Les Gets, which is very big for mountain biking) will be very different in September. Nice, if you like that sort of thing, but you shouldn't expect them to be the same as they are in winter (or high summer).
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@Ricklovesthepowder, have you seen the Top Episode when they went to Davos?
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@Ricklovesthepowder, If you don't mind the mileage Como was lovely and the drive alongside the lake was lovely in the sunshine. Plenty of hotels open in Interlaken and you could take a trip up the mountain railway. The roads on our route were excellent we were in a couple of 911s
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Stelvio? Grossglockner?
Vrsic pass between Kranjska Gora and Bovec if you like hairpins. Was 37C the day we did that, and was impressed how many cyclists were riding up that. Pity I followed some grandma down the other side who was riding the brakes the entire way. Doubt she could smell her car, but I could. That must've been one spongey pedal.
or find that top gear episode where they sought out the best driving roads in Europe (several of those were Alpine).
pretty much every single alpine road i've been on in summer is compatible with low clearance (mine's a Leon Cupra with clearance low enough that I can't drive over those fold down bollards that they use for reserved parking spaces)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
pretty much every single alpine road i've been on in summer is
..... full of cyclists. To whom the French drivers always give a decently wide berth.
The way to really appreciate alpine mountain roads is, of course, on a motor bike. There are hordes of those, too. Probably fewer bikes of all sorts in September than in August.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Top Gear did the Stelvio. We looked at that but it was a bit far for our timescale hence the Gotthard.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Ricklovesthepowder, valley towns will be open. Higher purpose built ski resorts may be open in July and August, but will close in early September.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
The bigger resorts would be open wouldn't they?
In September, no. The odd bar/restaurant, often weekday lunchtimes only. Bank on staying in the valley.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There's lots of good roads. I do it in a bike engined kit car so we still like smoother roads too but sometimes you have to expect the odd rough bit. We're also extreamly nimble so forgive me if some of the roads I like are very twisty
Are you planning on going far south? That lets you get to the Col du Turini (Rally MonteCarlo fame) and pos' Manaco but your 3days at the ring prob' rule that out.
Don't plan on doing too many miles a day once you get to the Alps. Looking at views eating etc soon soak up hours so 250miles turns into a long day. We plan the route using http://www.tyretotravel.com/download-tyre/ and load the itinerary to TomTom which saves a lot of time on the road. You need to add lots of way points (zoom in on the map or tiny mistakes placing the "pin"will take you off route) to ensure it follows the route you want. If you PM your e-mail I can send you some of our route/itinary files
Personal favorites are (and in groups that can be strung together)...
Grimsel, Furka, Davos, Stelvio (some don't like Stelvio but it's best done late in the day to avoid traffic)
Col du Bonnett, Col du Vars, Telegraph, Galibier.
Glandon, Madeline, Petit StBernard, Gr StBernard.
Rousette, Comb Laval
Couple of vids and you should be able to find others of mine from those...
In September, no. The odd bar/restaurant, often weekday lunchtimes only. Bank on staying in the valley.
Depends very much where you go - this was a 5 day m/cycle (R1200GS) tour in Sept 2010 from Munich via Garmisch, through Austria over the Timmelsjoch to the Dolomites (this is the **MUST VISIT** place for roads and scenery) then back via Grossglockner through Austria
Garmisch was busy; Soelden was pretty quiet; Selva / Cortina etc in the Dolomites were very much open and busy
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ricklovesthepowder Are you planning on skiing? If so, Hintertux would be a good bet - though could be fairly good or fairly poor at that time of year. IIRC, it's just about Europe's only 365 days a year skiing glacier. Tignes glacier tends to close (for skiing at least) in September.
However, Austria doesn't generally have as many spectacular passes and drives as, say, France. Some good ones I've driven are Col de L'Iseran (nr Val D'Isere); Col de Mont ( or is it Val?) Cenis (nr Col de L'Iseran); Col de Petit St Bernard.
Start with the Como lake and drive on the western shore north. Then Bormio before taking the Stelviopass entirly in Italy. Drive north and into Switzerland via Munster. Then head to St Moritz. BOth Bormio and St Moritz are lively in the summertime. Then head north towards Chur before another great drive from Chur and going west. Make a stop in Andermatt. Then the next day head over the Furkapass, maybe the best pass in the Alps! Then head over the Grimselpass and stay in Brienz. Way too many tourists in Interlaken. Next day head to Mürren for a lunch. That includes a cable car up and down. Next day, head southwest via Gstaad and drive down to Martigny. From here, take the scenic route to Chamonix. Last day, drive up to Megeve, and drive over to La Clusaz. From here the last trip would be down to Annecy, which is a lovely city. Think that should satisfy your demand before going to Nurburgring.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
September is quiet. V quiet. After the the third week in August the French bug off back to work en masse. The tourist facilities will stay open for one more week on majorly reduced output to look after weirdo Brits etc. then all is closed and off to Torremolinos. Bigger places like Gap, Briancon and Bourg St Maurice should have overnight accom available.
If you can possibly fit it in, the route des grandes alpes is worth a go. I have done most of it in parts but never had the time to string it all together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_des_Grandes_Alpes
I prefer it from the South and would recommend taking a spare set of brake pads. I set fire to the brakes on a rental Seat descending from the Col du Turini several years ago while trying to get from Monaco to Barcelonette in an apres midi.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 19-02-15 21:45; edited 1 time in total
In September, no. The odd bar/restaurant, often weekday lunchtimes only. Bank on staying in the valley.
Depends very much where you go - this was a 5 day m/cycle (R1200GS) tour in Sept 2010 from Munich via Garmisch, through Austria over the Timmelsjoch to the Dolomites (this is the **MUST VISIT** place for roads and scenery) then back via Grossglockner through Austria
Garmisch was busy; Soelden was pretty quiet; Selva / Cortina etc in the Dolomites were very much open and busy
We did Dolomites and Austria last year. Timmelsjoch and Grossglockner are great (if expensive) but beware Austrian police who don't tolerate speeding I've never seen so many speed traps and was told they only have to believe you were speeding rather than need a speed gun. The Dolomite roads are nice but the surface is atrocious in places.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
adithorp wrote:
..... beware Austrian police who don't tolerate speeding ....
On that note - beware the SWISS police : work colleague got done for doing 65mph (~100kph) on a dual carriage way: national speed limit is 80kph other than on autoroutes.
The fine is based on your ability to pay so, he was interviewed and marched off to the cashpoint for an 800chf fine (and they're still chasing him for a further 300chf as they since decided he was worth more than he admitted to!)
Late September would be perfect. Maybe autoroute down to Menton, then do the RdGA south to north, then continue up to the Ring. I've done it by motorcycle - it's a fantastic trip. Enjoy!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
adithorp wrote:
We did Dolomites and Austria last year. Timmelsjoch and Grossglockner are great (if expensive) but beware Austrian police who don't tolerate speeding I've never seen so many speed traps and was told they only have to believe you were speeding rather than need a speed gun. The Dolomite roads are nice but the surface is atrocious in places.
Never had a problem with dolomites roads in 4 summers driving there. The quality of driving however... expensive head on last year when a local took a hairpin on the wrong side of the road (with insitu mirror for checking whats ahead).
Watch out for bikes. Not necessarily them but the maniacs overtaking them or beeping their horn at you for not overtaking them on blind hairpins.
Still go back every year.
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You do have to watch out for numpties in overblown family hatchbacks careening all over the place though. A nightmare in September especially
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I've enjoyed driving over many passes in the summer. The major passes can be full of cyclists and, worst of all, older camper vans churning out black smoke. Early morning or late evening is the best time to do them, just be careful with the low light. The Stelvio is epic. The Gavia is the scariest I've done - single track, no barriers and huge drops, although this was some time ago so it may have been upgraded. If you go peak season, book places to stay before you go. Every bed and camping pitch in the Dolomites is taken.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The Furka pass, as mentioned by a few, is remarkable not least because you drive above the level of the Rhone glacier and that's worth a photo!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Ricklovesthepowder, On your way back from the Alps to the Nurburgring you might care to take in some of the "Romantische Strasse" route, particularly the towns of Dinkelsbuhl and Rothenburg ob der Tauber.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
On the way south we break the journey at the Voges and then spend the following morning around there before heading on into the Alps. The Voges roads are great and will really suit the Focus... smooth, twisty, quiet and well worth the stop off.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Going to sit down this weekend and plan a route. Serious question, is Manchester to Monaco in one hit a bit OTT? I do drive for a living if that helps. Or would we be better to break the journey up?
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Poster: A snowHead
Edit.
Just seen that it's 1100 miles. Definitely a 2 day drive lol
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Rothenburg is lovely. Haven't been there for many a long year but I remember it well.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Ricklovesthepowder, That's a long way in one go. Even sharing the driving I'd want to stop overnight part way. Actually how about stopping at Le Mans? Two race venues in one trip
On our road trip we drove to Portsmouth and took the overnight ferry to Santander. Next day was across Northern Spain then up in to the Pyrenees. Actually the trip through the Pyrenees was fantastic. We drove from Santander to Jaca then turned just past Jaca, up through the mountains and overnight in Lourdes. As we were meeting a mate in Geneva the trip from Lourdes to Geneva was a slog along the motorways.
@Ricklovesthepowder, France is such a beautiful country, it is a shame not to break up your journey with a visit to somewhere on the way.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It would be a mistake to try to cover too much ground - I was going to suggest going further west through France and visiting the stupendous Millau Viaduct, and maybe the Pont du Gard..... but that combined with passes like the Stelvio and Furka and the NBR would be daft - RLTP is just going to have to postpone some of the lovely places to a future trip.
The are companies who organise trips just like this and reckon to have recc'd the best routes.
But what they tend to do/say is that, for driving, northern france is dull, so they blat through to the interesting stuff, so to do route napoleon they'd do calais to monte carlo in one day, then spend the next 5.5 playing on route napoleon and the classic cols.
Also they tend to try and give the tours a target... Say x number of F1 (past and present) race circuits, or retrace the mille dura.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Try some passes that are not regulars in Le Tour or the Giro as these routes tend to me clogged with middle aged men in Lycra on expensive bicycles.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Stating the obvious, check the ring is open for the days you intend to go there as irs not open all the time. All the roads around there are amazing, but the one that winds along the north bank is a great warm up.
We used to plan our trips by looking at a michelin map and highlighting anything that looked vaguely like an intestine! This actually is a good way to plan a route over the evening drink!
The Furka, grimsel, sustenen and nufenen passes all link together but i think you may have to do one of them both ways.
We used the n500 to come north from Switzerland, but from what i hear its now full of nasty polizei wanting to spoil your fun. Great road but fast fast fast, I think i was on a gsxr last time.
There are so many good roads down there but budget for at least acouple of fines...we always had at least 1 each (at around £90-120 a go)when we went. Be very careful in northern france, i generally obey the speed limits there now which is unheard of for me!
Well jealous!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Its been one of my wants to bike, ski and cycle at least one pass!
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and remember that at X kph over the limit they can just take your car on the spot.....
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