 Poster: A snowHead
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Ever since I watched the Tour de France back in 86 (was that really 29 years ago- I feel so old  ), I've been in love with the alps. Done some motorbiking and the odd ski holiday. I often wondered what it would be like to live in the alps? Are mountain folk 'different'? Would they accept a foreigner, or would I just do my thing without being part of the community, etc?
I imagine spending summer biking, hiking, motorbiking and swimming in the lakes. Winter would be skiing, of course  I do wonder how the in- between seasons would look though. I mean, in say, October it won't be snowy enough to ski, but it will be too cold/ icy to go motorbiking or outdoors swimming.
I would probably go for France, Austria or Switzerland- but that's based on nothing. I've never even been to Switzerland. I am quite partial to English shops (especially coffee shops), so I wonder if I would miss this.
What do you guys & gals think? Would it be an outside playground?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Are mountain folk 'different'?
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Hmmm. Depends what you mean. They mostly have the same number of fingers as you would. Sometimes the same number on both hands.
I miss pubs. Proper pubs. And small talk about the most obvious things, "Cold out." <odd> "Why is this a surprise? it's January of course it's cold out"
I find the weather more appealing. Usually, we have a warm/hot summer, quite dry, a stormy August/September and cool springs/autumns surrounding cold snowy winters. You can tell that there are seasons. Unlike the UK, when you often can't.
Novembers can be vile.
Outdoor paradise? very much depends on what you make it.
Locals welcoming you in? Hmmm. If you (and you should) make all the effort to learn their language, their customs and habits, then maybe. Depends on the street/village/area.
Hard question to answer. I like living out here and know many who do. I also know many who've given up and gone "home".
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 19-02-15 17:34; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They are generally not keen on people from the next mountain
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
Are mountain folk 'different'?
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Hmmm. Depends what you mean. They mostly have the same number of fingers as you would. Sometimes the same number on both hands. |
Different in temperament, attitude, stuff like that. Wasn't really thinking of anatomy 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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France gets a bad press sometime. However, they have one great advantage, which is that if you speak French (and I mean really give it a go!), then they will treat you as if you were French.
Having lived around Europe in various places, this is quite unique. In many other places they are very friendly and very happy to speak English, yet one never has the same feeling of acceptance as an expat.
In the French alps, most people keep climbing mountain biking, motorcycling etc until the roads are too dangerous with snow, which of course means that it is time for skiing!
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| pam w wrote: |
| They are generally not keen on people from the next mountain |
Sounds like Wales
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| faithsdaddy wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
Are mountain folk 'different'?
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Hmmm. Depends what you mean. They mostly have the same number of fingers as you would. Sometimes the same number on both hands. |
Different in temperament, attitude, stuff like that. Wasn't really thinking of anatomy |
Sounds like Norfolk
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As others have said, despite what you may have heard and what a "Tourists" opinion is, in my opinion once the French know you are there as a resident (not a seasonaire) then they can be a very welcoming nationality, but your success at integration will be wholly dependant on your effort, and it's not just the language it's understanding the whole cultural thing too!
When we lived there I actually came to prefer the Summer season to the Winter, Autumn can be dire so usually we came back to the UK to see all our friends/relations before Winter but in our 1st year out we didn't and I remember for 4 weeks we didn't see the sky or valley we lived right in the cloud and that was just miserable and damp, not wet just damp.
We don't live there now but that's not to do with the French people, our business made sense for us to be based elsewhere but we still do a lot in France with the French.
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Depends where you are really.
Living in Innsbruck - after making an effort to learn German etc - I was definitely accepted as part of the community and I have a lot of rfeinds there.
Living now in Schruns - much smaller - less so, but that's 'cos there's rather less of a community (at least in my age range). I socialise with colleagues, who are all foreigners too. People are still friendly and helpful. The woman who owns the restaurant over the road from me always remembers what 'accessories' I like on my burger, and always gives me an extra pattie in it for free 
I much prefer Innsbruck as an all round place to be. Schruns is just too small. Still better than the UK - just being able to look up at the mountains after a poo-poo day makes everything worth while.
Generally if you make the effort to learn the language people will mostly welcome to you, but I'd still stick to the bigger towns if you're looking to actually live in the Alps as opposed to just ski a few months a year.
Weather can often be pretty crap in November and June. Not a problem in IBK as you can ski on the glacier then, or go kayaking if it's raining up high. There are plenty of sports opportunities whatever the weather - skiing, biking, hiking, paragliding, climbing, kayaking, etc etc.
In general it's awesome, but tbh I have no intention of living in a ski resort forever anymore. Innsbruck is basically paradise and the best mix of mountain and city you'll find anywhere. It even has decent pubs!
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Along the same theme...Husband and I have recently been considering whether to try and buy a place overseas in a mountain resort and (sorry to hijack) just wondering if anyone can impart any knowledge into how you got started with it all? Our parents alwayts talked about buying a place like a holiday cottage, second home and never did it but now regret it. We dont want to be like that!
We would happily learn the language and love immersing ourselves in the cultures we're in so that side I wouldn't be concerned about.
I'm just wondering if the idea of buying an apartment and renting it out then using it ourselves, or actually moving and living in another country (and raiding our kids there) is really, truly feasible?! I see so many of you with signatures that show where in the world you are and am just intrigued to know how you started out!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| JamesHJ wrote: |
France gets a bad press sometime. However, they have one great advantage, which is that if you speak French (and I mean really give it a go!), then they will treat you as if you were French.
Having lived around Europe in various places, this is quite unique. In many other places they are very friendly and very happy to speak English, yet one never has the same feeling of acceptance as an expat.
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Absolutely. I only spent a season in France, but I speak French and made every effort to improve over my stay. The locals I met and spoke to to know literally treated me like one of their own; they were open and friendly, and invited me to things etc. And were openly dismissive of English folk who only spoke English and only spoke to other English.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Agree with @under a new name, @marcellus, You really need to become fluent in the language which is a major task and adapt to the local culture and then there is a good chance you will be accepted.
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| Quote: |
I'm just wondering if the idea of buying an apartment and renting it out then using it ourselves, or actually moving and living in another country (and raiding our kids there) is really, truly feasible?!
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both are feasible but entirely different. Loads of people have an apartment and rent it out sometimes (I have one and don't rent it out. Have spent up to 4 months a year there since 2002). Actually living and working and bringing up kids somewhere else is a whole different ball game.
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You know it makes sense.
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| faithsdaddy wrote: |
| Would they accept a foreigner, or would I just do my thing without being part of the community, etc? |
It took 10 years of living in this Hampshire village to begin to be accepted as a local and some still won't unless you were at school with them 50 years ago. I think that's just the way small communities are.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think I'd love to live in the Alps, it looks like a far better quality of life to me. I certainly wouldn't miss the litter, chavs, and general run-down-ness of the UK. But I might miss the shopping. I can already speak a bit of German so I'm hoping it wouldn't take too long to brush that up a bit further.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| Innsbruck is basically paradise and the best mix of mountain and city you'll find anywhere |
Right! I think the same way about Munich, not quite the same access to the mountains as Innsbruck, but an hour away ain't bad. I also would not want to live in a ski resort directly. It's great in winter & summer and absolutely DEAD between seasons.
Any place I live has to have all the amenities at hand, schools, shops, decent bars & restaurants, sports facilities, especially for the kids etc. etc. Mountains are great, but there is more to life.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Anyone live in the Pyrenees?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I certainly wouldn't miss the litter, chavs, and general run-down-ness of the UK.
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But from your previous posts, @queen bodecia, you don't live in one of the better areas of the UK. There are plenty of much nicer parts, just as there are plenty of much nastier parts in France etc
@Steilhang is absolutely right. I am OK with being in my apartment in, say June (when the weather and the flowers can be magnificent) or October (when autumn colours are wonderful) but I'm only there for some weeks at a time.
I think people can often delude themselves about how well they'd adapt to living in an isolated/small community, whether it be in Norfolk, the Highlands, mid Wales or the Alps.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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One thing I absolutely wouldn't miss is shopping!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@queen bodecia, about 9 months of intensive study or equivalent is the standard study time to learn a European language to a reasonable functional standard. When you think of the many years people spend learning their native language that is not long.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| faithsdaddy wrote: |
| Would they accept a foreigner, or would I just do my thing without being part of the community, etc? |
It took 10 years of living in this Hampshire village to begin to be accepted as a local and some still won't unless you were at school with them 50 years ago. I think that's just the way small communities are. |
I've been in Norfolk for 22 years, married a local girl and have two Norfolk children. I'm not even close to being accepted as a local. I don't think I ever will be.
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Despite twenty odd years of living and working in our local community, I'm not sure either of us really class it as ''home'' .
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@Hells Bells, my wife comes from a small village in Kleinwalsertal (Vorarlberg). In the 30's her grandmother married the guy who drove the post bus from Oberstdorf (Germany). He actually came from Munich originally.
This has never been forgotten, and my MIL was always viewed as being an outsider despite being born & bred in Kleinwalsertal. To cap it all she went and married a guy from Nürnberg...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I live in a very small French village with my husband. We are clearly "outsiders"... but are 100% welcome… what does it mean to be "accepted as a local"?
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The Two Travelers and the Farmer. A North American Folktale.
A traveler came upon an old farmer hoeing in his field beside the road. Eager to rest his feet, the wanderer hailed the countryman, who seemed happy enough to straighten his back and talk for a moment.
"What sort of people live in the next town?" asked the stranger.
"What were the people like where you've come from?" replied the farmer, answering the question with another question.
"They were a bad lot. Troublemakers all, and lazy too. The most selfish people in the world, and not a one of them to be trusted. I'm happy to be leaving the scoundrels."
"Is that so?" replied the old farmer. "Well, I'm afraid that you'll find the same sort in the next town. Disappointed, the traveler trudged on his way, and the farmer returned to his work. Some time later another stranger, coming from the same direction, hailed the farmer, and they stopped to talk.
"What sort of people live in the next town?" he asked.
"What were the people like where you've come from?" replied the farmer once again.
"They were the best people in the world. Hard working, honest, and friendly. I'm sorry to be leaving them."
"Fear not," said the farmer. "You'll find the same sort in the next town."
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Steilhang, my perception is though it is changing with generations as travel and communication become easier
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| miranda wrote: |
| I live in a very small French village with my husband. We are clearly "outsiders"... but are 100% welcome… what does it mean to be "accepted as a local"? |
Reminds me of a meeting my wife had with the assistant mayor of our town where the guy told her she wasn't a "local" so her opinion didn't count. This despite my wife doing Lycee and University in the area and working for a number of years as a lawyer and judge. You wonder just how many generations you have to live somewhere to be accepted as a "local". It's all very Jean de Florette at times.
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@shep, that story reminds me of a lad I interviewed at the Civil Service Selection Board. I asked him about his living arrangements at university. He said he'd had 14 lots of flatmates and they'd all been awful. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| davidof wrote: |
| miranda wrote: |
| I live in a very small French village with my husband. We are clearly "outsiders"... but are 100% welcome… what does it mean to be "accepted as a local"? |
Reminds me of a meeting my wife had with the assistant mayor of our town where the guy told her she wasn't a "local" so her opinion didn't count. This despite my wife doing Lycee and University in the area and working for a number of years as a lawyer and judge. You wonder just how many generations you have to live somewhere to be accepted as a "local". It's all very Jean de Florette at times. |
My husband got nominated by the mayor and overwhelmingly voted onto some sort of local council within a couple of years of us living here… he seems to go to a lot of lengthy meetings (I'm sure you can imagine) and I suspect there may times where he wished he was too much of an "outsider" to have been invited along Maybe it's because it is so small here, they can't be choosy!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@davidof, here you're considered Getois if you have at least three generations buried in the local graveyard.
I'm an outsider, my kids are outsiders but, as with most things, you tend to get back what you put in. Most of the people I make an effort towards reciprocate that effort.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Nice story - you do indeed tend to be treated as you treat people. Those with negative attitudes towards locals are never accepted. For me it is things like being invited to ski with locals, paying the price charged to locals rather than the tourist price and going out socially together. Language is crucial as while they may speak fluent English for work or for tourists they would rather not speak English in free time as it is a language for work not leisure.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TTT wrote: |
| Those with negative attitudes towards locals are never accepted. |
Indeed!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes we are completely different, except for 2 eyes, 10 fingers, 2 hands and 2 legs  Will we accept you? I don't know... in general people are not really all that friendly to some newcomers... afterall do you invite someone who just moved from Pakistan to your neighborhood for coffee first week they move there, especially if only language they speak is urdu? I doubt. But if you bother to fit in, I'm pretty sure noone will have (much) of problems with you living here, and sooner or later they will accept you as part of community. But to expect you will be one of locals, I thing it's never going to happen. And I doubt it's any different anywhere else on world.
@under a new name, this "seasons" are changing here too. Or at least it looks like this last few years... winter's with +10c and no snow in January, and summer with whole bunch of rain and +20c is "a bit" different then it was, when I was kid, and we had 2m snow from December till April. But I hope it's just few bad years and next one will be back to "normal" again 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@jogi, where are you "a local"?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I guess at home city/village
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@jogi, where do you live in the Alps? Were you also born there?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 20-02-15 9:53; edited 1 time in total
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| jogi wrote: |
| afterall do you invite someone who just moved from Pakistan to your neighborhood for coffee first week they move there, especially if only language they speak is urdu? I doubt. |
That is very much dependent on where in the world you are located and your culture. If you arrived in a remote Pakistani village, you will be welcomed with warmth, courtesy and an astonishing level of hospitality.
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i never get this obsession with wanting to be counted as a 'local'. Why would you want to be mistaken for a person who was born in a tiny mountain hamlet and hasn't strayed more than 10km from the place since? I've met people like that - they're weird.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
at least three generations buried in the local graveyard
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Funnily enough, in a way, my wife is descended from the founders of a relatively well known (round these parts) ski resort - her father was born there.
When he died, the local council were not prepared for a "foreigner" (he had been adopted and had a "foreign" surname) to be buried in the local graveyard which was somewhat tight on space. Until a properly local friend suggested using the "old" family name dating back to the founding of the community and all was then fully acceptable. She and her siblings still get asked, every single time they visit, when are they going to give up the big city and get back to their roots.
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@Lizzard, I don't know anyone who does or thinks like that but it is good to be integrated unless you don't want to limit access to local advanatges or want to limit your social interaction. With increasing globaliastion then people are travelling more and everything is becoming more similar whereever you go. People are people and there are more similarities than differences everywhere.
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