Alpe d'Huez and Snow chains

A snowHead

Hi Everyone,

My first post here, but I've already got loads of helpful advice since joining, so thanks! I'm driving to ski in Alpe d'Huez for the February half term. We are staying at the bottom of the Mountain in Le Bourg d'Oisans and driving up and down each day. I know that winter tyres polarise opinion, but we haven't bought any. We do have snow chains that I have practised putting on (twice now!). I've had a look at google street view on the road up to Alpe d'Huez, but can't see anywhere sensible that would let me put snow chains on on the road up.

I've driven in snow quite a bit in the UK, so am happy driving in snow, but I don't want to be a nuisance in France. When do I put snow chains on? Do I wait until there is a good amount of snow on the road, then try and find somewhere safe to pull over, or do I put them on if I've read that it's snowed over night in the resort, even before I start up the road?

Sorry if this is obvious to people to who've done it before, but any general help on when to use snow chains, and any specific help on where on that road would be sensible would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

A snowHead

There's no real definitively correct answer to that one as conditions vary resort to resort and snow fall to snow fall.

The one piece of advice i was given which always stood me well was "put your chains on before you think you need to"

Also, look at the cars coming down if they've got them on then it's only because they've not found a good place to stop and take then off after they needed them

You're almost better putting them on "to be sure" in a place where you can stop safely and out of the way only to find that you didn't need them.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm sure Lizard will be along in a minute to give you the official answer Happy

but there are places to put on chains on the road. The traffic will only be heavy at the weekends. With a bit of luck you'll be able to drive up and down each day with your summer tires. Running chains on tarmac is not pleasant and can break the links so it is best to fit them close to where the snow is.

If you have any worries take the bus up.

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I think the aire chainage is on the bypass before you turn left at the roundabout to head up to ADH.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Having cycled up AdH a few times (yes I know boasting) there is a big area at the roundabout at @Claude B, mentions. Then the next place would be Gard d'huez the collage after five bends, spelt wrong I'm sure.

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Great! Thanks for all the advice. I've noted the locations you've mentioned for putting snow chains on, and found a few more (now I'm looking on the right side of the road!) About the bus, would this be included in the ski pass? How much would it be if it isn't? Is there a route I can look at somewhere? I'm going with family, so we may want to go up and down at different times, and this would be a great help. Thanks again!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The free resort buses just run around the resort I think, as far down as Huez, timetables are here http://www.alpedhuez.com/fr/hiver/la-station/transport-station.html

There are buses run from Bourg but the're pretty infrequent and I don't think you could really rely on them for getting up and down daily. here's the timetable anyway http://www.transisere.fr/ftp/FR_Lignes/FH%203020-3030-3040-3050-3070.pdf

After all it is free

Anyone who was caught in the carnage on Sat after Christmas will tell you the chains MUST be fitted before you start the bends. Many of the problems caused that day were people who didn't put the chains on early enough.
If you are staying in Bourg D'O, you could also consider driving to Vaujany and getting the cable car to the (same) ski area. The road is much more forgiving!

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@Lizzard, does it really matter for a quick reply on a forum? Oh yeah it does to someone who is in a permanent state of grump, but fails to makes it cool in any way

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@JamesHJ, perhaps that's why they're here asking about chains then!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

And to clarify, there is indeed 'nothing wrong' with chains and summer tyres. They will get you there in the end. You just have to drive like a prat in a few cm of slush! Also of course, as happened to friends of mine on Chamrousse a few days ago, chains wear on tarmac. Not so funny when they break half way up...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

In an ideal world, you would have winter tyres on your car. In which event, you'll probably never have to resort to using chains unless (a) they're mandatory (b) you have a steep, snowy/icy exit from where you're staying or (c) conditions are really, really bad.

Of course, it may nor be economincally sensible for you to equip your car with winter tyres (albeit that ovbiously, the summer ones last longer pro rata, so theoretically it doesn't cost any more in terms of rubber). Although you should bear in mind thay are better in temperatures below about 7°C and you may be in a part of the UK where the shorter stopping distance for winter months makes them attractive.

In any event, be careful about cheap chains as they are prone to breaking when cornering. Last Saturday my son saw a number of hire cars by the roadside en route to Val Thorens because cheap chains had broken this way.

And I'll get the standard advice in - (a) try fitting them at leisure before you go [you've done this] (b) carry a mat (to kneel on), gloves and a light accessible in the car and (c) have boots handy in the car to change into/out of.

As a suffix, however, I would say that the intrinsic problem of chains is mixed snow/tarmac. We were driving back over the Jura mountains in heavyish snow on Sunday. This is about a 50Km run from Lausanne to Besançon, rising to 1025m then down to 600m then up to 900m. The lead car with chains simply had to pull off at lower altitude, to remove his chains, where the tarmac was showing through: it was obvious that he was having a lot of trouble with the vibration. He would have had to remove and refit them at least 5-6 times if not more. All the other cars had winter tyres and the traffic just chugged along at about 40 Kph on the snowy bits and 60Kph on the lower bits.

Even the French drivers were leaving lots of room between cars, and the only problem was with a BMW X5 at the front of the line who I think got a little too confident on a downhill section and slid off into the ditch: a testament to the fact that even in a £60K 4x4 with winter tyres, a momen't distraction can still be disastrous.

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@JamesHJ, You don't have to drive like a prat in a few cm of slush but those that aren't used to it will do that even with winter tyres on their cars. If winter tyres are compulsory even for visitors then they must be fitted. In France this is not the case and I have more than 1 set of chains that have never been used but were bought because I might need them when going up the mountain in France. Buying winter tyres is just not economically viable for those of use who drive in those conditions once or twice a year but if it was mandatory I'd either invest or use alternative forms of transport.

I have sympathy with those who are prevented from doing their job because of bad driving but you can't impose your view on the rest of the world. Try driving up the M6 on a Monday morning and see how many times a year you fail to get to work on time because of bad driving!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@razza Do check in your Owner's manual or with your garage that your wheels can actually take chains. On my previous A3, the fitted 8Jx18 wheels were explicitly not certified to take chains - only the 7Jx17 or x16 wheels left enough space behind the wheels ('J' is the width in inches and the second value is the diameter in inches). Whereas on my little Peugeot 206 the 14" wheels take them no problem. Be careful of retailers who say "they should be OK" or "Try them out first" - if they damage your steering/brakepipes/suspension then it's your problem, not the retailer's, and you may be up a mountain when it happens.

I also suspect that the advice about re-tensioning them after 100m is often ignored. If you've just spent ages in the freezing cold fitting them, it's tempting to just press on. And there may not be space to stop. But I certainly have seen at least one set of chains come off a car that must only just have fitted them. So I'd advise checking them as suggested.

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If you have summer tyres and chains you are still a bloody liability!
[/quote]
It's not reasonable to expect one week a year tourists from places like Perpignan to buy winter tyres and spend 12 hours on the motorway wearing them out.[/quote]

I dont think 12 hours on an M way is going to wear them much.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Well, I appreciate all the responses. I didn't expect consensus, and I'm happy for some to disagree with my choice of not getting winter tyres. Maybe in a few seasons I'll be on the other side of the fence. I do want to make the best of what I do have though, hence the question. I didn't buy winter tyres as it does seem too much to spend on a car that has almost brand new summer tyres, and I'm returning in 4 months. I have got some well recommended chains (RUD) that I ordered from Germany, although I don't anticipate having to use them. I'm more than happy driving on snow, I'm one of those drivers that heads to the nearest car park when it snows to get experience driving in the snow. As for having to take the chains on and off, I don't think that will be an issue if I'm making my way up a mountain.

One final question, after fitting the chains when I practiced, I then rolled the car only about 3 metres on my drive way, then re-tensioned. Should I go further than this when I'm doing it for real before re-tensioning, and if so that will mean doing it in the middle of the road rather than in a lay by that I fitted them. What's the consensus here?

After all it is free

Well, I guess the internet would be boring if everyone agreed all the time! Good luck with your trip!

p.s. Our chains have a self tensioning thingy, which you can hear clicking as it takes up the slack. So if you wind the windows down and listen carefully over the sound of ranting seasonaires in the cars behind, you might be able to get away with not stopping to check the tension.

@razza: Re tensioning - see what the chain instructions say. Ours strongly recommend re-tensioning manually after 100m (although nothing about the obvious problem that there may be nowhere to do this safely). But different products vary. Apparently, the real problem is on cornering - this is when they're more likely to come off or break. So if they do need tensioning, it's probably best if you can drive on the straight before checking.

Actually, when your tyres/car is new is the best time to fit your winter tyres: the economics assume you're driving both types alternately over their lifetimes, so that's probably what? 40K miles? Clearly, if you plan to change car sooner than the tyre's combined lifetime, then this changes the cost equation.

I have to declare I'm an advocate of winter tyres. They are useful even outside of snow conditions, and the stopping distance in cold and wet winter days is significantly reduced. Even in Sussex, we get under the magic 7ºC during the Rush Hour quite often between October-March. As I said, the big advantage for me is simply winter safety, with the value on Alpine trips effectively icing on the cake. But I appreciate that you have to buy them at a point in time when you wouldn't otherwise have a tyre bill, even if this is deferring the point where you need new summers. And of course, on UK roads, your'e constrained by all the other people on ordinary tyres.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

During 10 yrs living here, 4 as a transfer driver, I have used chains many times.
Some new fancy-pants chains are "self - tensioning", and so long as they are in good nick, they do as they say.
The transfer vans had old-school chains that require manual tensioning.
The simple reason is that when putting them on, (unless you jack the wheel up - don't do that btw - not on icy roads), the chain goes around the wheel, but not under the bit that is on the ground. So long as you the wheel rotates more than 1/2 a turn you can pull in the slack on your secondary tension. My school boy maths says that a 15" wheel with a 235 x 70 tyre, half a turn is about 110 cm. But the further you go the better (upto say 10m). Remember you can go back after you have gone forwards if you have limited space.
After your secondary tension, listen for rattling as you drive off. The chains will have a tendancy to even themselves up a bit as you drive if they are not 100% even ( but you should aim for a uniform distance from the central hoop to the outside of the tyre). Where it is safe to do so, STOP and check the chains again.
The self tensioning ones do this for you with a strong coil/spring, which pull it tight as the wheel turns, but it is basically doing the same thing, only without the inconvenience of having to get out and do it by hand. If thre is a rattle - STOP and tension them again. Once fitted, tensioning them takes about 5 seconds per side, so dont drive too far worring about the inconvenience to others (unless it is dangerous to do it where you are). They can live with 10 seconds of additional time much more than a snapped chain being fired up at their winsdscreen, or getting snared on their brake lines as they drive over it.

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When we stayed in Allemond a few years back we found it easier and quicker to access that ski area via the big cable car at Vaujany but then we were 'that' side of Bourg. As said above it is a much easier run. We did the drive up to Alpe d'H out of interest in the cycle route and it is a very twisty steep road. Perhaps drive that way in good weather or go to Vaujany if the roads seem bad? We did not need to use chains at all that holiday.

So here are the conditions on Sunday approaching the Jura. The problem for the car with chains was that he had to crawl to walking-pace (you can see the tarmac), and even then it was obvious that he was getting tremendous vibration and eventually stopped to take them off. Then, presumably had to put them back on. And then take them off .... He did try to drive on the snowy bits but that almost ended in disaster.

This section here was after the X5 slid off the road on a downhill part with somwhat more snow on the road, albeit not particularly heavy. The SUV behind me also had problems on the downhill section, his weight seemed to make the vehicle prone to 'wobbling' when he braked.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Help!!

Alpe d'Huez and Snow chains

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