 Poster: A snowHead
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Just a heads up for those traveling to and from Chambery today...expect delays.
We are sat on the Tarmac at East Midlands with a 1hr delay due to fog in France. This will obviously have a knock on effect for returning flights.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I suspect your problem was fog at Lyon (probably your diversion) visibility at Chambery was OK all morning
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are fuelling issues at Chambery which is affecting all flights Crystal and Inghams have been tweeting
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@radar, Good spot - I notice Jet2 reporting having to do fuel stops elsewhere causing delays.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Chambery just is not worth the gamble. I have managed a scheduled arrival once and never yet managed to get out on time. I just book Geneva or Grenoble. It is MUCh quicker.
The approach for Chambery is through Geneva controlled airspace therefore any delay is compounded and guess who will get priority. The aircraft have to be 'interleaved' with Geneva approach and sufficient clearance left for a potential go-around.
Just not suited to purpose of mass tourist transportation.
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@Maersk, Got to agree with that
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@Maersk, Where did you get your gen from? I don't have access to charts today, but from what I can make out from the approach plates I can see that the initial vectoring is done by Geneva area control before a handover to Chambery approach. The missed approach procedures would not impinge on GVA traffic as it is basically straight ahead and then a turn back to the hold. As for interleaving - that it was air traffic controllers are paid to do - they would not have a ticket to control if they could not do it. Geneva is a single runway so there would be lots of scope to interleave but given the geographical separation of the 2 airports and the Standard approaches from the west I don't see too much scope for confliction.
The geography of the area and the weather are the main issues at Chambery (a fuel issue could happen at any small airport) - but major delays are only once of twice a season (as Geneva have had) and the tour ops are obviously happy to take the risk (and cheaper charges) and the shorter transfer times that many (especially with kids) are screaming out for. I guess with all 2 main local airports working to capacity GNB and CMF are maybe the only places they can get slots.
You pays your money and takes your choice.
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Having been going to the 3vs regularly since 1998 and all but one trip was into cmf, i can hand on heart say that we have only been impacted on one trip and that was the return journey on the 23 Jan 2005.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jeppesen (and others) Aix le Bains is not fit for the purpose to which it is now being intensley subjected. Terrain issues demand greater separation and there are two holds. An 'interesting' mountain airport.
A friend of mine had a significant delay when the luggage cart was driven into the aircraft on the apron!
Too small, too busy etc........
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The main issues with Chambery are weather coupled with a high minima due to terrain, a short runway giving a low max landing weight, so therefore you cannot carry much holding fuel and have to bug off to GNB or LYS if the weather is shite.
Crap handling as the handlers are all drafted in for the winter on temporary contracts so they don't see the need for good service.
A small terminal that is unable to handle delays etc etc.
Hopefully once the CAA pulls their finger out and we get approved GPS RNP approaches, that might help the situation (will also help arrivals into Innsbruck and Salzburg too).
I've never heard anyone complain about getting delayed due to Geneva airspace capacity, maybe held high followed by a dirty dive but main delays are caused by weather.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Irrespective of any air traffic, runway length, weather condition issues, Chambery is inadequate for the number of people they seem to try to put through it on peak weekends. I 'suffered' Chambery on both the last 2 Saturdays (27th Dec & 3rd Jan) and to describe it as chaotic would be a gross understatement.
On the way out we were held on the apron at Glasgow due to "weather conditions at Chambery", then held in hold behind 3 other aircraft for almost and hour waiting to land due to the first aircraft in the queue having to abort his landing late on the approach (due to crosswinds I heard later). That I can accept, it's part of the risk of flying anywhere. Similarly we sat for over an hour in the aircraft on the apron at Chambery on the return journey due to a missed take-off slot, most probably caused by a failure to get the passengers and baggage on the waiting aircraft in time.
Which brings me to the terminal. It's just too small and needs major investment. When we arrived on our outward journey, partially due to the problem with buses caused by the snow, the terminal was literally jam packed with people. Getting to the one of two baggage carousels to try to collect our bags & skis was the first major obstacle. Then we were there for 3 hours, standing (seats at a real premium), surrounded by our bags and trying to keep an 8-yr-old amused. The catering, if you could get close to it at all, is minimal. The toilets were a disgrace. The men's ones had 4 urinals, all taped off, leaving 4 'traps' and huge queues. As for the traps, lets just say I was glad I didn't need to sit down. On the return journey a week later, exactly the same conditions! The women's weren't' much better according to my wife, with several cubicles having missing locks.
If anything the situation on our return journey was worse. We were bussed to the airport and arrived about 4hrs before our flight was scheduled to leave. That meant 2hrs of standing around (again!) before check-in desks for our flight opened. That then led to over an hour standing in check-in queues, followed immediate by almost an hour waiting in the queue to get through passport control and security. The only redeeming feature of all this queuing was that by the time we'd completed it we didn't have to wait in the small departure lounge as by then the buses were already taking people out to our aircraft. I've never been so happy to be sat on an aircraft that was delayed on the apron because at least I had a seat, my own space, and wasn't being battered and shoved by people trying to squeeze past with their cases (not their fault).
At peak times the tour operators really need to consider moving some of the volume through other airports. Admittedly the conditions on our arrival were caused at least in part due to the weather and road problems in the area. The conditions on our departure though were purely down to volume of people. Personally I'd rather fly into somewhere with facilities that are better designed to cope even if it does mean a longer transfer. I can keep a child amused much better in a seat in a bus than sat on a suitcase in a crowded terminal building.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Ravelin, I couldn't agree more. Last year we suffered Chambery, as part of a package. It was bad then, I can only begin to imagine how bad it was. We said never again.
And even though it cost us more, this year we chose to use Geneva. Although Geneva was also busy and subject to some shortish delays, we were able to get drinks easily and sat down reading (and using free internet) while we waited with our 3 children. I know some TOs only use Chambery. I won't use those TOs for that sole reason.
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Have to agree its an awful airport and I have experienced a few bad trips using it. Even booked via Geneva this year with longer transfer to avoid it only to have TO change my flight. Got nailed on 28th December and again on 4th January with delays and chaos. Not fun with kids.
FYI toilets upstairs are smaller but better.
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You know it makes sense.
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Which brings me to the terminal. It's just too small and needs major investment
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Great idea - but who is going to invest a fortune for 20 days of use a year?
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At peak times the tour operators really need to consider moving some of the volume through other airports.
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But as Lyon and Geneva are capacity limited at peak times - where? A few operators tried St Etienne and failed because it adds at least an hour on top of a Lyon St Expurey transfer. After that you have Nimes and Clermont Ferrand - but add 3 hours on top of a Lyon transfer. At which point it would be easier to take a bus direct from Gatwick
So the easy answer would be to reduce the number of flights to Chambery and Grenoble - leaving more people to drive or indeed take a bus. A lot of tour ops have dropped the coach from the UK option in recent years - perhaps they should resurrect them (especially as it is one of the greenest ways to travel).
Putting my controversial hat on - how about suggesting to the French they only offer arrival slots for charters to airports north of Birmingham so the good folk around the M25 can use coaches. TAKING COVER 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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No need to take cover, a cracking idea. i have been forced to take part in London centric winter flights for years. Enough i say! Flights to the Alps should only be allowed from UK airports north of say, Doncaster (Birmingham is too far south) - the stupidly named Robin Hood Airport, probably because of the charges rather than its proximity to Nottingham and its forest........
Having suffered Gatwick departures for years (way before the M25 was even thought of) its about time we got our own back. If i lived 'in't Sarf' I would drive myself - at least once a fortnight!....
Struggles to put flame suit on in the drizzle and gale, before diving behind the wall to keep 'chocksaway' comany 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Maersk,
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the stupidly named Robin Hood Airport, probably because of the charges rather than its proximity to Nottingham and its forest........
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Apart from the sheriff of Nottigham, the only place I can recall from Robin Hood is Conisbourgh castle which is less than 20 miles from Finningly. I always think of Finningly as the heart of Robin Hood country. Far more confusing is Turin airport who called the airport "Sheffield" airport when I was last there. I believe there is still a Sheffield airport.
As a totally boring aside I have never managed to land Microsoft Flight Simulator at either Chambery or Courchevel.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Chambery airport most definitely closed to fog this morning - an abortive landing, circling for best part of an hour, diversion to Gva to sit on runway there for an hour (or probably more) before disembark there awaiting coaches. .....fortunately we found beers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Have some friends who had to land at Geneva not heard from them since this morning
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Chambery relatively straightforward in good conditions. Low viz VFR, is a little on the 'challenging' side. Keeping the hospital in sight............
On airport naming; who the hell decided that Teesside would become Durham Tees Valley? and effectively disappear...oh yes, the owner Peel Group who are desperate to build houses on it. Th same fate that befell Sheffield,,,,,,,,,,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
Putting my controversial hat on - how about suggesting to the French they only offer arrival slots for charters to airports north of Birmingham so the good folk around the M25 can use coaches. TAKING COVER |
Erm what about airports like Bristol and Exeter? Probably quicker to drive to the Alps from Brum than Exeter!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Never really seen the sense of Chambery - it's great when it works but only saves about an hour's travelling compared to GVA or LYS but with significant delay risk plus flight times are normally a bit frustrating as I'm not keen on travelling at 'gentleman's times'.
Having said that, I did use the BA London City to Chambery flight just before Xmas as was convenient from Canary Wharf and needed to get a train from Chambey and was happy to take the risk. All worked fine.
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Big problem with Chambery (apart from the weather) is the proximity of the Geneva ATA and all flights having to be interleaved........
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Chambery perfect yesterday - textbook landing on Thomson 737
Skiing by 2.30 .... Lucky maybe !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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IF it all works it is excellent............
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@chocksaway, @Maersk, Hope there is some space left under cover! Only just spotted this thread.
I normally use Chambery a couple of times a season and have done so for getting on for ten years. I flew in the day before the OP and was delayed around one and a half hours. There is merit in most of what has been said about the airport conditions and delays, and I agree it isn't a great place to be stuck on one of the busy transfer weekends. I routinely anticipate being delayed and appreciate it is frustrating, especially if you are on a weeks holiday. As @Maersk, says though, it can be excellent.
I use the place the reverse of most people in that I fly back to the UK (Leeds/Bradford) for the odd week in season with hand luggage only. Even though I check in online, they still can't process the print out and queing is necessary to obtain a boarding card. The beauty of Chambery for me though is the ease of access to it by car, with the added bonus of free parking. With hand luggage Chambery must be the quickest airport there is to go from landing, to driving onto the main road in your own car.
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