 Poster: A snowHead
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Following on from the DIN thread over in the technique forum where we're looking at our personal approach to our release settings, one contributor has mentioned bindings releasing at the correct level and another saying that they back off the level on their rental bindings. Here's the prob:
I bought some ex-rent skis November 04. The skis were cosmetically challenged on the top sheet, the bases are in good nick and had been ground a couple of times but have a couple more in them. They also have an even 'pop' in both skis . . . they'll make a good pair of 'rock hoppers'.
They're Dynastar Intuitive 74's 00/01 season
BUT! Looking at the bindings I realised that one of them was almost impossible to click the heel release in an out, even with the adjustment wound to zero . . . so I took them apart.
In case you didn't know all the different parts of your bindings are embossed with their manufacturing date, part number and tagged with their assembly date. These were a assembled in March 01 so we can assume that they were used for the 01/02, 02/03 and the 03/04 seasons before I bought them in Nov. 04 not that much you'd think.
This is what I found:
The grease on all the sliding surfaces was worn away and the surfaces deeply scored, and what lubricant residue there was had solidified to a hard wax-like consistency and contaminated with metal dust and dirt. It crumbled and fell out as I disassembled the components.
One rear DIN release spring was seized and coil-bound at maximum tension. The screw thread adjustment was stripped and the metal fragments had fallen into the lateral release mechanism locking the sliders so that the lateral release was seized.
All four lateral toe release levers were seized solid. You could wind the adjustment screw in and out but it made boogerall difference to the release lever tension!
Putting aside the written offer of one snowhead to buy the dam things we have to look at the long term issues in using rental skis. These bindings got into this state in just three season's use and had obviously been used right through to the end of the 03 season.
OK the ski owners amongst us can feel a bit smug, but do we care for our equipment as the manufacturer recommends? With a minimum of annual cleaning, proper lubricating and tension checking?
But back to the rental issue.
Do you know that the ski/bindings you hire have been correctly serviced?
Does the renter offer you the annual DIN certification?
Is the renter authorised and certificated to service and care for the equipment they hire?
Or do you just take it on trust?
Your equipment is manufactured to very close tolerances and the manufactures take extraordinary care in meeting quite severe EC safety guidelines and even minor faults can cause a failure within the mechanism.
The makers have an (for lack of better words) MOT requirement. Should it be supplied as part of the rental paperwork?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Good idea - how much does it hike the price up ? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque, that's a frightening tale. I bet you're glad you checked them. With your history of accidental injury you want to do everything possible to avoid being crocked and stuck in your passion wagon, unable to drive or slide. I've always taken rental bindings on trust - I check the setting is what I want but that's it. In the light of your experience, maybe more of us should ask for the setting release point to be proven on a machine before taking the skis. Don't see much value in a piece of paper but it would be better than nothing.
Will be interested to hear from those who work(ed) in rental shops.
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I agree with you Masque, and kuwait_ian, but speaking purely from an owners position, I was quite ignorant of any maintenance requirements for bindings!
Having re-read your post it seems glaringly obvious and critical that bindings are properly maintained. I must confess that I have never as much as thought of checking bindings, so long as they worked. I don't know if having skis 'serviced' in resort got them checked over. It's a bit scary 
Any good sources for getting the low down on bindings maintenence? Any publications "Bindings for Dummies" or similar on-line?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Rental bindings tend to get quite a serious amount of abuse, that does not forgive what you have found and I hope it is the exception rather than the rule. I have never worked in a rental shop but am I quite close with some guys that do. I have never asked about hire binding and the need for any servicing.
If you own your own bindings. Please check they are still indemnified - there are lists on the web, I'm sure someone can find them and publish them. If the binding manufacturers are still happy for them to be used then so am I. Never take them apart and never play with them in any way. It's your health.
At the end of each ski season / holiday wind all of the tension off your binding screws by lowering the DIN as low as it will go. I suspect this is why your bindings had a fully compressed spring.
NEVER WASH OR ATTEMPT TO GREASE OR LUBRICATE YOUR BINDINGS.
If you have an issue with them get a qualified person to look at them.
If you are concerned about the condition of your hire bindings get them changed. Most of you hiring skis should be able to do a simple enough test to see if they release in both the toe and the heel by kicking your boot out of the binding with the other boot, or get someone else to. If you come out your bindings should be OK.
edit: Forgot to say, other than that you raise a good point Masque. Without turning in to a nanny state (or industry whatever) there are some very good suggestions here, I know the hire shop I use are awesome and they couldn't get away with renting out kit, incl bindings, that is too old or poor performing because everyone would go to another shop instead.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| parlor wrote: |
| and I hope it is the exception rather than the rule |
The skis were stickered with one of the Major Alp franchises and from a 'reputable' shop. So what should we assume about the kit we rent?
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| Masque wrote: |
| parlor wrote: |
| and I hope it is the exception rather than the rule |
The skis were stickered with one of the Major Alp franchises and from a 'reputable' shop. So what should we assume about the kit we rent? |
That the Hire shop sell it on to punters when the bindings are beyond safe use 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I wouldn't want to be on rental skis anything over 2 years old and pay a premium not to...and if the conditions were good, I'd expect to be on this years skis, no question..
From the shop's point of view it might be a horrible long job to de-tension, maybe over 100 pairs so it makes you think...!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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JT, Big shop more like 500 pairs I should think - Jutta has over 100!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ALL
there is no need to de tension a modern binding spring, by modern i mean anything less than about 5 years old, besides 99% of the units on the market are sealed so cannot be taken apart for maintenance. Salomon offer 5 year warranty on bindings, can't remember the other brands but most will be 3-5 years 
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I've seen shop staff test bindings after setting by wrenching the boots out of each one prior to handing them over - lets hope they all do it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Scarpa,
I will do my own binding check anyway..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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CEM, I've no idea about Salomon but my Look, Marker and Atomic bindings (all l year old) manuals all state that bindings should be wound off for storage over a month and that they should be properly serviced and checked by an approved agent every 30 days skiing or each year if less than 30 days use per year in order for the warranty to be valid (just like any piece of expensive mechanical equipment).
Bindings are enormously strong and well engineered pieces of kit but they are made with neccissarily close tolerances, to the point that atomic do not have a pre-printed DIN scale on their bindings. Each one is placed in a test rig and as it is put through its sequence the Din values are etched in by laser at the precise and accurate (to within .1%) point. Perhaps a we bit over the top but these guys take it very seriously and it takes little abuse in a harsh environment to change the operating characteristics or damage the mechanism. It's not much of an issue for the private owner, but we all accept that most of us don't treat rental kit with the same respect we would if we owned it. As the Look rental bindings above illustrate.
We seem to be willing to put a lot of trust in the rental agent with very little reason to.
Scarpa, ahh, the bootfitter's arm, a finely calibrated tool and the one that was still ratarsed from the night before in Austria was a fine tool! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Masque,  gotta be better than nowt though hehehe. Some good points raised here, I know that I am going to get my bindings properly evaluated after several weeks skiing - easier than maybe getting an injury.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
At the end of each ski season / holiday wind all of the tension off your binding screws by lowering the DIN as low as it will go
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The manual for my Tyrolia bindings says to store them in the closed position for long periods (obviously without boots in):- would this have the same effect of reducing the spring tension?
After a nasty ski-hire experience on my 2nd ever trip I have used my own planks and have considered the safety aspect of properly maintained bindings the main advantage of doing this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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the ice perv, sure does
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FAQ
) and can't remember the last time we were told that the bindings should be wound down, thats not to say that it should not be done, however you would hope that the guys at the companies would actually know their stuff 
