 Poster: A snowHead
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NEWS UPDATE!
BARSC Children's races to be held in Les Arcs from 27 Dec to 1 Jan ARE NOW MOVED TO TIGNES!
This is their announcement!
"Due to latest snow conditions BARSC relocates. Travel still possible from Bourg or les ARCS For the latest Update see https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6kea41nu7fecld/Update%202.docx… This update has been emailed to the known contact for accepted racers."
The question I am sure many parents are now asking themselves!
Why are they only now AT SUCH SHORT NOTICE moving this event?
They could have made this announcement sometime ago and saved people a lot of money. It was very obvious that the races could not go ahead on the "Race Stade" in Les Arcs for quite some time and I had told them this. I even offered to help laissez with the people in Les Arcs on their behalf if they needed help.
Have the organisers thought about the actual cost for parents of moving this event to another resort and the dangers of driving between Les Arcs and Tignes. (It can take a lot longer than 55/ 60 minutes in high season to drive down from Les Arcs and back up to Tignes Val Claret.)
Where will people park in Val Claret. The parking by the race course is likely to be full unless they have reserved this just for the people involved with the races.
At the very least the organisers should arrange the transport to this new location from Les Arcs.
What about all the money it has already cost many parents to book places to stay in Les Arcs?
What about the cost of driving to Tignes and the cost of parking in Tignes and still in Les Arcs every day?
What about the alternative cost of finding somewhere in high season to stay in Tignes rather than force the children to make this long drive everyday? (It is quite easy for this road to be blocked by accidents etc. and cause long delays.)
What about the Lift passes that have already been bought for Les Arcs and now need to be bought for Tignes?
Do the organisers care about any of these things or is this just a competition for rich people with bottomless pockets!!
I think many parents with children that are involved will be thinking these things, but afraid to say them.
Here is an alternative suggestion which might be possible and would be better than all the added expense and travel to Tignes for many parents!
'They held a trial event on the Mille 8 course for the press two days ago and it went well. Why not run these races there for the youngsters in the evening as last year. Better this than move to another resort!'
OR 'Refund the Entry Fees to those that cannot now get to Tignes!'
For myself! I am very sorry for the parents in Les Arcs and the local area that took up the opportunity of entering their children in this event as it now seems a mistake.
WHAT A MESS. I am sure BARSC did not want to make this change, BUT this does not excuse them for this lack of planning. They cannot blame their not making an earlier decision on the weather condition or lack of snow. The long range forecasts have been warning of this situation for some time. I wait to see what, if any help, they give to parents to solve these new difficulties.
For those that do go to Tignes! Good Luck!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Further update - races in Tignes now not starting until Tuesday 30th. 3 days of racing - either 2 GS and 1 SL or 2 GS and a Kombi or 1 SL, 1GS and 1 Kombi. Hope they don't drop the slalom in favour of a combi. If the programme has to be curtailed then a ranking race ought to take precedence over what is essentially a fun race IMHO.
Long shot - but having already lost the training scheduled for this week, and now the races being put back - I don't suppose anyone knows of anywhere there might be any gate training available for a 13 year old within hitting distance of Bourg on Sunday/Monday? Or even, since we now don't need to be trekking over to Tignes for those days, where are the best conditions within reasonable driving distance of Bourg?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Okanagan wrote: |
| where are the best conditions within reasonable driving distance of Bourg? |
Currently Tignes, but conditions in other resorts may change with this weekends predicted snowfalls.
Champany en Vanoise Club de Sport are currently travelling daily to/from Tignes to train as no other resorts having sufficient snow/training pistes. Approx 1.5 hrs drive each way.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That's a good shout - worth checking anyway. Thanks.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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No, not enough snow cover.
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Had a ski over to see Gerard this morning and he has managed to get 1 GS run open but by midday it needed moving as it was through to the grass 
He is hoping that tomorrows snowfall will enable him to open improve the GS lane & open the slalom area.
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The BARSC races have always been prone to last minute changes. When they were in Neiderau in 2003 the races were moved at the last minute to the Stubai Glacier with a 140 mile round trip everyday!
They are also getting less and less significant anyhow, as the numbers have dwindled from 50 girls & 80 boys + minis in the early 2000's to just 13 girls & 30 boys inc minis this year.
Compare that to the Anglo Scottish races in Les Houches in a weeks time where they are full with 150+ children.
I can't see the BARSC childrens races continuing for much longer with those number of entries.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Certainly in the last 4 years every one has had a change to schedule of some sort. Last year we were all scrabbling around to find clear goggles when they moved the races from daytime to night races under lights (on the home run which hadn't been re-pisted!) at no notice.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| snowcrazy wrote: |
My only real issue with the British races is, why do they cost so much more to enter than the French, Swiss etc. races  Seems crazy to cost so much for one entry. £40+ entry fee per race. |
Race entry fees are pretty much the same for all British races in the Alps. You would have to ask each race organizer for a breakdown of their costs but in most cases I think it is a mixture of only going to big resorts where it costs a lot to hire the stade as well as paying the travel costs of race officials.
BASS races in Scotland cost less.
There is a similar difference in race entry fees at FIS level.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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[quote="rjs"]
| snowcrazy wrote: |
Race entry fees are pretty much the same for all British races in the Alps. |
Do non Brits pay the same entry fee?
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Do non Brits pay the same entry fee? |
I think they do. Augustin T has taken kids that he trained to British races, he mentioned the cost difference to French ones.
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You know it makes sense.
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@stewart woodward, very good question. I wonder if all those French kids at the races in Tignes paid the same entry fees as the British kids paid. I have my doubts! Does anyone know the real details without asking to look at the accounts for this event.
I also have another question which would be interesting to have answered.
Why do the British race organizers not hire the officials in the resorts to run the events?
This could reduce costs of bringing people out to do this work. The locals are very good at running events and do it every week. I would have thought this would be a cheaper option?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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No experience of ski race events but is conceivable based on other events that price is different internationally for a number if reasons:
- Euro conversion. Price probably fixed in both currencies.
- national or local club could subsidise. If you pay the club for something (membership, coaching etc through year) they give back profit through part funding entry.
Add to that the more local you are and your other overheads reduce.
As for officials. If you have access to a good team who successfully run the even last year why risk changing. Local officials like to do things the way its always done locally which particularly with kiddie events will have mummy and daddy looking for reasons to protest the officials because it says in the event rule the umpires will all stand on the left and one stood on the right and as a result little darling Sebastian skied slower and lost and now he will never win gold in Sydney...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@polc1410, interesting, but as you say, not really the same in any way.
Anyone from British or French ski racing backgrounds any ideas about how these events are organized, it would be very interesting to hear your views.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not French, but brits in Canada. All Alberta Alpine races at u10, U12 and u14 have the same entry fee, which is $40 CAD per day. A day usually consists of 2-4 runs on usually 2 courses.
I think they are still slight 'money makers' for the host clubs. Most races are staffed entirely by volunteers (race officials, gate judges, timers) from all participating clubs. Coaches take turns to set courses and provide jury members (certainly at U12/U10). OH has vollied at FIS race and still all volunteers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The entry fee for the English Champs in Bormio are £45 per race this coming Feb
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| chrisb wrote: |
| The entry fee for the English Champs in Bormio are £45 per race this coming Feb |
yep and added to the costs of getting there thats why we are not going!! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowcrazy, Who would you consider suitably qualified to answer ? I have raced for 37 years, been coach of a BARSC club at previous BARSC championships and at other GBR races on the calendar, helped out as course crew at a lot of others.
Each GBR race is different. Some use local help, some don't.
Just taking the ones held today: The Anglo Scottish races in Les Houches will have been run mostly by BSA staff. The FIS races in Chamonix mostly by the local club des sports with help from a few Snowsport Scotland employees and from volunteers. I think the Bormio races that I have been to would have been better if they had used more local help, maybe things have improved but I won't be going.
There isn't a fixed race entry fee. Organizers just pick whatever they think they need to charge to cover costs, they don't know how many entries they will get, they tend to just charge similar amounts. I do agree that GBR entry fees and licence costs are too high and have tried to raise this with TPTB.
I gave an example above where I know that Argentinian children were paying the same as British ones at GBR races. You would have to ask what happened in Tignes.
A fair number of French races are at smaller stations where they consider it publicity for the resort. BARSC tried doing something similar when they held their races at Petzen in Austria, the races the first year were great with good snow and lots of support from the local club, the second year was too warm and the races were cancelled. There were complaints though from parents that the place was too small for them to do recreational skiing. My worry is that the smaller resorts will be too low to be able to reliably hold races in future and this will push costs up even further.
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Why aren't the parents volunteering?
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@rjs, Thanks for the reply. Were you at the races in Tignes? Are you at the next BARSC races or any others in the future? As you seem to be in the know, what is the actual fuction of BARSC? How is this organization constituted i.e. Charity or club etc? Where are their accounts published? How/where can someone see the accounts for the events they run?
It seems to me that they have many questions to answer. Are you aware that they stated (not their exact words) 'Those that entered on time cannot have any refund of entry fees, but those that enter late could have a 100% refund if the event was cancelled!' Maybe you could explain the fairness of this statement or as I presum you know these people, ask them to explain this unfairness!
In the younger age groups I think there were more local French children than British kids in the races. Why? IMO it did nothing to improve the competition, just made the whole thing take longer. I did raise this with the organizers and re. cost. Was not given any answer regarding cost. All I was told was that it raised the level of competition. IMO that is Rubbish. It is a British event. Many of the kids racing in Tignes and on the poduim were British kids living in the alps and they know the French kids that were racing. They go to school together and train in local clubs together. Two boys won the overall prize and the British prize for their age groups as they live in France, race for local clubs and are British, So how did having all these French Kids racing improve anything?
Maybe if the BARSC committee asked those of us with kids involved who have local knowledge, the event could have been better supported. As it was, if you took away the locally based British kids the number of kids from the UK that entered was not that great.
RJS, as you have real knowledge of this organization (BARSC) I hope you are willing to shed some light on the questions I have asked.
Just for reference. When racing for the ESF Club teams the kids pay NO entry fee for the races and travel costs if they go with the teams transport. Only food and keep when overnight. They even get their jackets for free. Must pay for race suits and discounted cost for skis. This makes it possible for even the average family to afford for their child to take part. What a difference, and yes you can be English and race for the local ESF Team in many ski stations if the kids are good enough. Something for any parents reading this to consider, if their child likes racing and they go to the same ski resort every year. Despite the Frenchness (you all know what I mean) of the set up, it does work and the kids do have fun!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowcrazy, I was not at the races in Tignes and probably won't be at any other races this year. I am no longer coaching a club and am following the standard BSS programme with my own racing.
You can read about BARSC here. It is a grouping of clubs, at a similar level within the GBR system to a French Comité Régional. Other groups or individual clubs will run races on the GBR calendar. I think their plan was to run a fairly serious race series where the kids could see where they stand relative to the national standard, you need a reasonable number of racers in each age group to do this so adding a few good local racers makes sense, I don't see any more than three Tignes racers in any one category in the results, categories with less than 5 finishers won't be able to be seeded. As Plugboy points out above, the races this week in Les Houches have had a lot more entries. RobW will have been at both sets of races, maybe he can add to this thread next week. What level of races were you expecting them to be ?
As a coach, I think there are too many U16 races on the GBR calendar, there is no time in school holidays for training for those kids who live in the UK.
What do you mean by an ESF Club ? If your local FFS club takes their kids to races for free then I think the club must be subsidising their entry fees, there is nothing to stop a GBR club doing the same. There are discounts on skis available to British racers too.
I think you are looking in the wrong place for ways to reduce costs. The only way it will happen is if a central body decrees that race entry fees will be £x, the only national body is BSS but I'm not even sure whether it can tell BARSC to do anything. BSS also doesn't seem to think there is a problem based on this report of the last AGM.
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Hi @rjs, some good info there thanks. But you do not mention anything about how I can ask for accounts for the events or for BARSC. I looked on the link you gave and could not find anything there either. Seems the real details of how this body is run are not open to the public. If anyone can point me in the right direction to find out how the money is spent that would be a great help.
I think you are right. The ESF seems to have a budget for their race clubs. Most big stations have them and they have their own events and nationals. All very well run.
You mention discounted skis available to British racers, where can I find out this info and get some cheaper production skis for the kids. They are really expensive.
You say I amlooking in the wrong place for ways to reduce costs. How would you suggest I can reduce the cost of racing for the kids. The biggest expense after skis is entry fees.
And getting a sponsor for a kid seems almost impossible. Any ideas you have would be a great help.
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