 Poster: A snowHead
|
I've done a bit of the off piste skiing to the point where i'm skiing on piste and dabble off when i see a suitable entrance into the woods where someone else has been before. I would say i'm an advanced skiier on piste but have never really ventured off piste.
However... I really fancy the task of going somewhere else where you can ski off piste for ages before you reach another on piste slope but have a few questions:
Would you recommend a guide or is a matter of finding a suitable place and giving it a go?
We're going to meribel-mottaret in Jan - does anyone know of some suitable off piste there?
I'm a skiier - what skis would you recommend, twin tips?
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
In Europe, I would recommend starting out with a guide, unless you have some experienced friends willing to introduce give you a helping hand. Make it clear you want to learn about safety considerations and ask him to explain his decisions. Apart from the safety aspect, guides know the area they operate in like the back of their hand so they'll be able to take you to the best conditions, secret spots no-one else skis etc etc.
Some resorts have ungroomed areas which are patrolled and made safe for avalanches. Sorry, some European resorts. As far as I know, this is the norm in North America which possibly makes it a better place to get into skiing soft snow. Don't know whether the 3V has anything like this.
I wouldn't go buying skis just yet. Twin tips make very little difference to off piste performance (unless you plan to be going backwards a lot  ). It's a matter of personal taste as the flame wars about fat skis on this forum will attest! See what you can get but I am sure that Rossi B3s and B4s will be available and they'd be a good start. The Dynastar Legend line is good too - I have Legend Pros which might be a bit much for someone who hasn't used fat skis before but the Legend 8800 or 8000 will be worth a look
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Nick-o, No idea what the off piste is like in Meribel but I'm sure a guide will help you find it.
It might be better to consider a lesson rather than a guide to start with. Most instructors will take you to reasonable off piste and then they can talk you through the things that guides don't often talk about. A guide of course will evaluate the conditions and so on but he might (esp if a moody Frenchie  ) talk about it and even if you ask he might not explain it in a way you can understand. Guides also will not really help you if you have a technique issue.
There is a lot to learn for the type of off piste you describe^. To really get away from the piste for a while you will be skiing long itinerie runs or you may have to go past what most people describe as lift served. Ie you need to skin, hike, heli or snow cat to get to it.
Of course you can't learn everything at once but you need some basics. For anyone that really wants to get into the back country, as it sounds you do. I always say the same thing. Avy course first. An avalanche course trains you, inter alia, in snow types which is an ideal tool for not just knowing what might kill you but also what skis nice so when you start looking for your own off piste skiing you'll already know where to start looking. You will also do some practice with beacons so you learn how to do search patterns and the correct evac procedures.
Safety is paramount. So please don't go off skiing without some basic training / instruction on what / where / when.
I am not a guide. Clearly . I don't mind taking decent skiers to places that they would not experience without paying for an expensive guide (a few beers will do ). However not only do you need to have all the gear you need to know how to use it before I'd take you. You can hire the gear, it's a very expensive sport even if you are doing two weeks a year. £200+ for a beeper, £50ish for a shovel, same for a probe...
SCGB don't mind trying to kill people though, as long as you're not in a bad group they'll take you pretty much anywhere... I know I've seen them looking for skis...
Did I mention safety? 
Skis... mmmmMmmmmm... each to their own eh? You can also make your life much easier by cheating. There is a good argument for not having a twin tipped powder ski, I forget what it is though  Anything over 80mm is going to make your life easier. Ask any skier about the very first time they tried to ski in a foot of pow, sure they'll tell you about all the good stuff, they seem to forget what it's like when you keep sinking, falling over, not going fast enough, not keeping your ski tips up, crossing skis, everything. The sweating, the swearing... promising to give up skiing. Remember anyone  And then it clicks. You find your rhythm, your speed and technique and life changes... 
Someone else that wants to ski my line... (yeah right  )
Oh and be safe. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
There are lots of opportunities for off-piste in the Three Valleys. You might want to try Mont Vallon between the two red runs for a start (more or less under the cable car). You can inspect the route on the way up and if you find you don't like it you can traverse on to the piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
There's some easy introductory stuff between the pistes above Les Menuires, or under the Pas du Lac bubble, under the chair that goes up from Meribel direct to Val T (cote brune ?) can be brilliant. Loads easily accessible in Courchevel too, try the couloirs, under the Suisses chair, etc. etc.
google for "Dennis Summerbell" and you'll find his off piste guide, a good introductory read.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
You can get a decent shovel and probe for about £35 each if you shop around. But this stuff requires skiing with buds equipped with the same - AND VERY WELL PRACTISED. As Par said - until you know enough about snow risks to realise that no one knows a lot... stick with a guide.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Also, the key criteria for where avalanches frequently occur? "Anywhere there's snow".
A good instructor in decent snow conditions should be able to find you plenty of stuff to learn on. Remember also that most off piste snow is not the light fluffy stuff they show in movies. It's often heavy, cruddy, wind packed, wind-blown, cut up, hard, rutted, (did I mention cruddy?), and generally that's what makes it fun.
Goodplaces to learn can be just off the side of the piste - and here an instructor can make a huge difference in getting your technique(s) right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you're a bit of a virgin, rather than fully going for it with a complete off piste I would try some 'side of piste action' which can work well for improving technique and getting more feel of the sensations
some of my best off piste sessions have been with a few mates who've done more than me coaching me down. Especially if you can take a piste first and then a lift over the top of the 'run' so you can check it out from the chair before having to go down it.
In la plagne turning off to the right from le clapet after the restaurant is resonably safe and really good fun - just don't go too far right or you might reach terminal velocity
In 3v there can be some good spots we had fun around chamois piste above Meribel. Don't rule out out of the way reds/blacks after a bit of a dump they can be fab as they are often ungroomed. In Les Menuire on a fresh day we did Fred Coville & Crete qute a few times one morning (although would possible take an hour or so to get to this side of the mountain from Meribel)
enjoy and stay safe!
g
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
David Murdoch, Totally - but remember - a fair few ppl get killed each year within 50m of the pistes - proximity to safety can lull into a false sense of security.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All great advice by the sounds of things, thanks! There's 4 fellas going altogether so i'll see if they fancy joining me with a guide - how much should i expect to pay?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Nick-o, If you're thinking 3 valleys, found this while back Skiing Index some interesting reading.
I've got a similar aim this year of making a real breakthrough in off piste having dabbled a bit. I've come to the conclusion time is passing too fast and I'm not getting any younger so a weeks intensive tuition is the way to go. Off to La Grave end of Feb.
If I survive I'll report back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nick-o, Book an off piste private lesson with New Generation in Meribel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Nick-o,
I worked a season the 3V so could point you to a number of good places but my suggestions would be:
1. hire some fatter skis for the week - Arno make some good suggestions
2. play around between the pistes for a day or two - some good spots would be
a) from second station on Tourgnette bubble down to bottom of Mt Vallon bubble - rather than take the piste (skiers right) keep a little skiers left - it's a nice big bowl with few obstacles
b) from Saulire down to Creux (Courchevel side) - another big bowl
c) as someone else mentioned Mt Vallon between the pistes although be careful on the way in - can be thin and rocky at the top - might be better to traverse in from lower down Combe de Saulire
d) anywhere near the pistes above Courchevel 1650
3. Get a guide or off-piste lesson then
4. Try some longer runs
a) good place to start would be down to St Martin de Belleville - gentle angle, few obstacles, difficult to get lost - rather than follow the piste just head straight down
b) back of Mt Vallon - as you get out of the bubble on to a short cat track before the first steep section, spot a little dip in the ridge line (sometimes fenced-off depending on avi risk) - go through the gap. It's a nice long ski, can't get lost, will drop you out on the return route from Val Thorens
c) Go up Chanrossa chair (above Creux bowl on Courchevel side), keep skiers left as you ski back down. Should see a traverse line which takes you into a big bowl. Some steeper sections but nothing scary. Takes you back out to the Chanrossa chair
Enjoy,
J
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
The Ski Club used to have 2 reps in Merible/Mottaret. they usually have a more advanced group which then skis mainly off piste (but near the lifts)....so this could be a good starting point. Later on you might want to do some proper off piste with a local mountain guide further afield. Mt vallon has good off piste, even if skiing by yourself.
I would strongly advise against following someone's tracks into areas which are away from the lifts and where you cannot clearly see the whole route. You might end up in very steep/dangerous areas whith no obvious exit routes. A guide once told me that ppl always needed to get airlifted out of a particular canyon b/c they followed tracks into it but did not realise that at the end you needed climbing gear to climb out of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Nick-o, Book an off piste private lesson with New Generation in Meribel. |
I second this advice (though any of the ski-schools in the 3v would be OK I suspect). I skied a week with them off-piste a couple of years ago and they were excellent.
If there's 4 of you it makes a ton of sense to hire someone. The cost between you will not be much more than ordinary ski lessons (maybe less). And the amount of time you save picking your way down routes where you get lost or find it's a bit hard or the snow's c**p will offset the expense many times over. They'll know all the best places for starting off and then improving your technique.
Plus having someone tell you how to do it can make the learning much quicker and, believe me, getting to a level where you can enjoy the hors-piste is well worth it - you'll get so much more enjoyment out of your skiing you won't believe it.
d
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Flicking through Fall Line december and (re)read that 40% of skiers rescued from avalanches had followed other peoples ski tracks. This is a common misconception, useful to remembering when venturing into un-known ground, just because someone before you didn't trigger the slide you could...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
[pedant]So more than half hadn't followed ski tracks. That makes following tracks safer [/pedant]
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
parlor, Or indeed skied off the edge of cliffs like that idiot in La Grave a few years ago! Why don't people ASK????? That's partly what pisteurs are for - ask them - they know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
easiski, you don't mean me do you? In 98-99 I was the "English ski instructor, miracle boy" who fell 400' (of vertical, but I was bouncing like a slinky toy)... Spent a week in Grenoble hospital being fed on a drip, got out of hospital and ripped my ACL two days later. D'Oh.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
parlor, you've got me worried about La grave now, maybe bitten off more than I can chew.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rich, most of the main drags are really OK as far as off piste goes. Some of the colouirs like Triphids (1,2 & 3) & Super Triphids (sp?) are hairy. You need a guide / local otherwise it is suicidal and a waste of money because you won't get the most from it. If you have specific questions or just want to chat about it PM your phone number.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
rich, there are two main routes - the valons de chancel and the valons de la meije. the chancel is probably red run standard; the meije black run. obviously, it being off piste, a lot depends on snow conditions. and be prepared for BIG moguls on the traverses back to P1 (the lowest intermediate stage of the lift). the other factor is what a wild, far out environment it is. some people can be quite intimidated by the landscape, even though it doesn't directly affect the skiing.
Aside from the classic routes there are countless variations (including the Triffides) which get as difficult as you want them to be. There is a huge amount of skiing at la grave. You won't find a lot of it without local knowledge so as Parlor says a guide is a very good idea. Sounds like you're doing a course there so you've probably got it all sorted.
If you want an idea of what to look forward to, check this out:
http://www.skierslodge.com/2Frameindex.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
parlor, Arno, Cheers for the info, me + mate are boked in for a weeks off piste clinic so have to have faith that the guy running the show will pitch it at the right level and that others on the same aren't too much more advanced than us.
Coincidentally well be staying at Skiers Lodge.
I guess my biggest worry is that if it turns into a complete mare there's no convenient piste to recover on and get some confidence back, but from past experience I learn best in a more intensive environment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
rich, although la grave doesn't have any pistes worth talking about (well, the two blue runs at the top are quite nice but pretty sort), there's a place called le chazelet which is very close by with pistes. LDA and Serre Che are pretty close too
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Arno,
Good link.. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rich, what Ano said^. If you thought you were good enough to sign up for it, you'll deal with it. The people who run the course can't afford for you to be a statistic, you'll be fine. I'm almost jealous.
Thinking of entering the Derby if I can get there this year...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Arno, yeah - I skied at le Chazelet on a climbing trip. There is a Rossignol test centre in la Grave so you can get to try their latest skis for free.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
snowman, Terrible news - when I was there it was almost opposite the tourist office and cable car - where the road to all the rented places joined the main road. Yeah - they let us keep ours for 2 days - it worked though - the next summer I bought my own B2's as being a beginner I had found that they gave me so much confidence compared with the skis I'd hired.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
rich, You'll be fine - you'll have a great time. For confidence look at the La Grave page on my website & see some pretty moderate skiers on the Vallons de la Meije. I expect the company you're going with will have a ski shop they work with, but if not pop along to Ski Extreme on the main road (very small shop) and talk to bruno, who's a top freerider and knows all about the area and phat skis.
If you really do find it too much then you can get over the top to here, although getting back is more difficult. It's only 40 euros or so in a taxi though. 
Arno, Fab site with the routes - I just had to see them all!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Returning to the original Meribel / Mottaret question: you will find "Les 3 vallees - Hors-piste / Off piste" published by Vamos (a dual language guide to about 100 of the area's off-piste routes) widely available in the town in bookshops / newsagents / some sports equipment shops. (There are similar books in other regions).
You need 1:25,000 maps to go with it.
But even as a very experienced off-piste skier I hesitate to simply follow a book. Keep it for inspiration and later years: you are better off with a guide.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
