 Poster: A snowHead
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after my knee surgery to repair the broken bits i've been using Arnica gel after each trip to the Chill factore, this has worked well in keeping the swelling down. but just started using FLEXISEQ cream and its fantastic !!! my knee is easier to walk on ... for those with cartalige problems i sugest you read up on it !!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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hmmm... Its a bit weird.
Theres no active ingredient, so its not a drug, but it uses a phospholipid which is commonly used as a delivery method for the active element in topical creams and gels. The claim is essentially that they penetrate the skin layer and 'rehydrate' the joint. Lots of "Granny says she can limbo again!" stories, proper trials thin on the ground as they don't have to do them as its not a drug, although some studies claim parity with existing joint relief topicals.
About £18 for 50g and you're supposed to really slather it on twice daily to get the effect, interestingly, a natural source of phospholipids are things like oily fish, eggs and any other sources of Omega-3.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Richard_Sideways, interesting. I've seen that stuff on sale at the local pharmacy, and wondered about it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm rather sceptical that anything is actually getting in to your knee.
However, consuming fish body oil (not fish liver oil) seems to have some evidence of beneficial effect in rheumatoid arthritis - so may good for your knees too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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"effective as a leading oral prescription-only medicine"
So you don't rub it on, you have to eat it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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they were giving away free tubes of the stuff at the manchester ski show.........
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I'm rather sceptical that anything is actually getting in to your knee.
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if there were active ingredients they could certainly get through to the knee - drugs delivered by patches on the skin are common. But this does sound like a bit of a dodgy one. What is that quote (about an oral medicine) from?
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Interesting, http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/03/27/rheumatology.ket133.abstract
"The mean reduction in WOMAC pain score at week 12 was −1.9 (−40.8%) for ketoprofen 50 mg, −1.9 (−40.9%) for ketoprofen 100 mg, −1.9 (−39.8%) for 2.2 g TDT 064, −1.8 (−37.8%) for 4.4 g TDT 064, −1.9 (−40.4%) for celecoxib and −1.4 (−29.3%) for oral placebo."
So, without knowing more than a cursory read of the interpipes, you get 75% of the benefit from sugar pills. Hmmm. And the WOMAC scores don't seem that reliable (test-retest is apparently not great). Also, although it's randomised and double blind, it's somewhat tricky to blind physician and patient from whether they're taking a tablet or rubbing a cream on their knee!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@pam w, sure, things can get in through the skin, but I don't think generally not a good way to target specific organs/areas (other than the skin itself). I admit that the knee in non-obese individuals is not terribly deeply buried however.
Quote was from the Flexiseq website.
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@under a new name, Oral?!? It comes in a tube - whaddya do? Put it on a cracker like Primula?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My experience so far is it is working far better than anything else i've tried, i only put it on once a day with gentle rubbing in. next day my knee feels superb. I've had Aromatherapay, Bownes, high dose Glucose+Conjoinin tablets , Arnica, Oruvail Gel and the laying of hands...only leaving surgery...which is no option, so this stuff works...so far!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@yorkshirelad,
So.
All we can tell is that you're a sucker for placebos (and can't spell)? (Aromatherapay (ironically, you got the "pay" bit right!), Bownes (Bowen?), high dose Glucose+Conjoinin tablets (?? do you mean Glucosamine and chondroitin?), Arnica, - none of which (AFAIK) are proven in any good, well designed, large enough, robust trials to have any clinical effect beyond placebo).
Note also that the body is really quite good at repairing itself given adequate time...
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I use arnica gel as a placebo! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Vogels Arnica Gel is more effective than Ibrupofen... result conducted during Clinical trials !!!! ..stops bruising as well !!
All your 'modern' medicines come from herbes, that are usually synthesized in the lab and put on sale by the pharamaceutical companies...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
All your 'modern' medicines come from herbes, that are usually synthesized in the lab and put on sale by the pharamaceutical companies...
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Restrain yourself, under a new name!
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Poster: A snowHead
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of course i will..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Note also that Oruvail gel is a real drug (Ketoprofen, an NSAID, as mentioned above) in its own delivery mix. A version exists with it's own vesicular mix (Transfersome) but I think Oruvail is a simpler and cheaper mix.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pam w, biting my lip as I type.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@yorkshirelad,
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Vogels Arnica Gel is more effective than Ibrupofen... result conducted during Clinical trials !!!! ..stops bruising as well !!
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You'll be talking about this? http://a.vogel.fi/tutkimukset/Arnika_NSAID.pdf
Their conclusion (although one should really take the data, analyse it afresh and draw one's own conclusion), " Our results confirm that this preparation of arnica is not inferior to ibuprofen when treating osteoarthritis of hands."
My conclusion, neither Arnica gel nor ibuprofen gel are effective for the topical relief of osteoarthritis pain. (Which makes good engineering sense, given the source of the pain).
@yorkshirelad, the Daily Mail is not generally considered to be a reliable source of medical education.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Why am I suddenly thinking of the song "Lily The Pink"
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@yorkshirelad, because I presume Herr Vogel's fine emollients bring to him many excellent emoluments. Money for old rope would seem to be the appropriate phrase.
I would prefer to keep my cash in my pocket and rub a bit of Vicks ointment in the morning which will at least have the real world effect of making my ski boots smell a little better come the evening. I note that a days skiing does not bruise my feet. I put this down to well fitted ski boots rather than Vicks.
Have you done a rather poor but better than nothing controlled test of how your feet are without applying the s̶n̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶i̶l̶ "medicinal compound"?
What all this does show is just how very difficult it is to examine and research pain management, particularly in chronic conditions.
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under a new name, Ok, no fair! how did you do the strikethough text? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Herr Vogel's fine emollients bring to him many excellent emoluments.
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My feet give me no trouble after a day's skiing either. I find a gin and tonic, taken orally, the best "pick me up".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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each week i've completed two hours skiing at the chill factor.. then applied various oils etc. to the knee, for those who have had reconstructive knee surgery will appreciate the little problems that come with it, i think i would have preffered ligament damage to the shattering of the knee !!
re the treatments i've tried post weekly skking....some are slightly better than others, with not much difference between them to be honest.. however, the Flexiseq is astounding !! and at £18 a tube it chuffin better be..
I realise that everybody has their own take on medicine wherever it is derived from, but as someone who was told not to ski again by the surgeon last year i'll keep my mind open and have a try at anything that will let me ski to a ripe old age.. if it works i'll keep using it, remember your body can repair itself quite well if it is give the correct nutrients etc... that applies to cartledge as well 
i did not start this thread to create a debate more than inform those who maybe have similar problems to me and are prepared to give things at try, just as i was informed about the stuff .. i did not poo poo the stuff nor ask for the return of burning witches...
I hope this thread as actually helped somebody though
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yep, helped me learn how to do s̶t̶r̶i̶k̶e̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶
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how do you strike through ????
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You know it makes sense.
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@yorkshirelad, I am not poo poo-ing anything. Just approaching the subject rationally and scientifically. It rather sounds as though you've hit one of those recovery milestones that naturally happen in rehab.
Not that you've found any miracle cure.
@Richard_Sideways, delighted dear chap. I rather like it t̶o̶o̶. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Placebo or no placebo....at the end of the day did it or did it not help!....that is the answer . If it helps and does not harm...do it!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Your selection of the mad-eye smiley is the most correct part of that post.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@scootsman1, If it's a placebo, it doesn't help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| yorkshirelad wrote: |
each week i've completed two hours skiing at the chill factor.. then applied various oils etc. to the knee, for those who have had reconstructive knee surgery will appreciate the little problems that come with it, i think i would have preffered ligament damage to the shattering of the knee !!
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believe me, the knee break is the least of my problems! Bone heals pretty well, ligament damage has taken far longer to recover from, and is never likely to recover fully
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@yorkshirelad, if your missus sends me a free sample, I'll give it a go....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name,
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If it's a placebo, it doesn't help.
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I'm not sure that's quite true. The human brain is a funny thing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Pedantica wrote: |
@under a new name,
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If it's a placebo, it doesn't help.
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I'm not sure that's quite true. The human brain is a funny thing. |
Absolutely 
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@Pedantica, ok, ok, it might make you feel better. Or feel that you feel better.
But it has no clinical significance.
Good wine also works.
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@under a new name, indeedy!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Also... don't forget the application effect... massaging in a cream or massaging a joint has many beneficial effects purely from a physical aspect.
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@Scarpa, and the association between degree of "intervention" and apparent placebo benefit.
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