Hope you can help with a wide ranging query. We have booked the 13th Dec off work to go skiing - the only week with school holidays and work that we could manage. Family of 4 6+8 yr old have been once before so basically beginners. I am a very nervous/rubbish skier and hubby is really competent. We have decided to try Austria (I am convinced it will make me a better skier - haha).
Ideally somewhere quiet, nice runs for us 3 (hubby is happy to chill and take things easy). Ideally with some other activity to do like ice skating/sledging/swimming incase it is too cold for the wee ones and I get my usual sore knees:-)
I have a got myself so confused looking at all the resorts….so any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I like the Skiwelt area in Austria. We usually go to Scheffau but there are other resorts in the area. We always go over christmas, like the Saturday before christmas (the week after you've booked off work), the snow has always been good. Plenty runs for all levels, ski schools are good. For Scheffau I would say a car is a good idea unless you want to take ski buses, I'm not sure about the other resorts though. Ellmau has a very good swimming pool, it has an outside bit that it heated, bit of a novelty swimming outside and chucking snowballs at each other. There are plenty other resorts but I've not been to them so can't comment on them. Someone will be along with more suggestions.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I like the Skiwelt too - my first ski holiday was in Ellmau and last year I went to Soll. However, it might not be a safe bet in terms of snow conditions so early in the season. Somewhere reasonably high might be a better bet. Lech, Obergurgl, Obertauern or Serfaus maybe? Not sure how they are for children, although Serfaus is reputedly excellent.
oberlech (above lech) could be magical as should be good for snow, has some good tobogganing and nice some nice hotels with pools etc, and some nice cruisy blues around the place. Probably at the top end of most people price levels
other end of the price scale would be somewhere like Niderau - nice compact resort, great ski schools and learner spots - pretty much the whole place is beginner friendly. If dad want's to open the taps a bit then he can hop round to Auffach/Alpback on the ski bus (15 minutes or so) - but it's a bit lower and does has less chance of snow
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Soll is pretty bad for beginners as you have to go down steep runs to get out of the Soll local mountain.
madlondoner, beginners are better advised to download in the bubbles, not following their idiot friends who think they are ski Gods! Nobody has to go down any run unless they have been taken out of the ability range by said idiots! Söll has a fantastic higher level beginner area (like all the SkiWelt towns), which the local ski schools have been using for a lot longer than anyone here has been skiing without any beginners being killed returning to the base station
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Mayrhofen would fit the bill in terms of both skiing and also plenty to do in the town if you want to have a day off. Also on the train line and so if you want to have a day out to Innsbruck then that is pretty easy to do.
After all it is free
After all it is free
CeliaCo, Lots of good advice above regarding resorts, but not many commenting on snow. I'd have a look at the Igluski website and check historic snow levels. 13 Dec is early and many resorts may have v little snow by the time you go. Ideally, I'd wait until the start of December to see where the snow is. It may be that Austria has none and France has masses. Beware of looking at the historic data as often it gives a monthly average with most of that snow arriving in the last week or so. Soll, for example, does not have a good record for early snow.
Last edited by After all it is free on Tue 14-10-14 13:49; edited 1 time in total
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Quote:
France has masses
even if France has masses many resorts won't be open that week or will only just have opened though obviously the major "high altitude" destinations such as Val Thorens and Tignes would normally be good and can offer some very good tuition. But as noted above, that's a very quiet week and there's no good reason to book accommodation now.
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Obergurgl has a good show record. Although there isn't huge amounts to do other than ski I seem to recalls there were some caves you could visit and also you could do a day trip to the Innsbruck christmas markets.
Also if oh are interested in going with a family operator Esprit have a couple of places and are pretty good value that week as it is pre-school holidays
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
CeliaCo, take a look at Schladming and Obertauern, both of which have good early snow records as well as being among the first resorts to fully open. I've often skied at both in mid-November, although I've rarely had good luck with the weather in Obertauern (often very misty &/or windy with driving snow or as it was last season in mid-November, driving ice needles).
Most of the major players will be officially opening on or around that date, especially in the Salzburgerland region, so you may be spoilt for choice.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Just been sent a link to this TV clip - the SBSSV Trainers's Training weekend took place on the Kitzsteinhorn Glacier last weekend and the local Salzburg TV station were there to film it. The conditions don't look too bad to me:
The report is in German but basically it says that the trainers meet to refresh their teaching techniques, exchange ideas and take on new concepts, particularly with regards to fitness. At the end of the month these trainers will begin the professional training season for Anwärter and all the other levels of ski and snowboard instructors. They work with the Sports Science people at the University of Salzburg, some of whom are also ski instructors with the SBSSV (Salzburger Berufsschilehrer und Snowboardlehrer Verband = Salzburg's professional/career ski and snowboard instructor association)
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
CeliaCo, on 13th Dec you need altitude, which should be priority number one in finding a good resort. Any resort becomes significantly less fun when either the runs are icy due to freezing and thawing each day, or some runs (that might be suitable for everyone) are closed.
I would start with the highest resorts, reading some reviews and seeing if they have accommodation suitable for you and a reasonable variety of runs, and work down from there.
You may find dozens of possible resorts open that week, or you may find that many do not have the snow they need to be 100% open (and as a result restaurants and other facilities may not be in full swing) so I would either make the decision closer to the time or go for high altitude now.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
A lot of the resorts suggested so far are fairly low and their opening dates are early Dec. It's quite possible poor snow / warm weather could push the opening dates back.
My advice would be to go high (e.g. a glacier resort or Obergurgl / Obertauern)
The research that I had done to do was indicating Obergurgl…..as it is high and more snow sure and suitable(ish for beginners). With tour operators its coming out around 800/900 per person (for hotels with pools etc). Seems steep. Esprit are already sold out for this week here.
Will have a look at some more resorts. I thought the transfers to the glacier resorts wouldn't be much fun for the wee ones…
Friends are going to La Rosiere in France that week and typically have good snow. Really wanted a change from France (and avoid a 3 hr transfer).
Thanks again.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
CeliaCo, for that week I'd be expecting £500 per person for flights, accom and transfers with a TO. Personally I'd widen the search beyond Austria - sadly to get the altitude and short transfer time is fairly restrictive. La Rosiere might be ok, might not - it is also fairly low altitude and whilst it might pay off, you might be some distance from an open piste at that time of year.
I had the same as you last year when looking for the same week, and wanted to get away from France. This year we are back to Tignes, there is a reason why we have ended up in the high altitude French resorts in previous years and have ended up back there this time round.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
La Rosiere might be ok, might not
and isn't a very short transfer - not far off Tignes. There is nowhere within easy reach of Geneva which would be suitable to book now for mid-December. There is a reason why the ski season doesn't get into swing before Christmas/New Year - and even at new year snow is often not that great, compared, for example, to late March which people seem to think (wrongly) is "late season".
Sometimes booking ski school can be problematic if you book really late, but in mid December that shouldn't be a problem either.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I know….seems very steep I agree…..where did you go last year?
When we last went to France, I couldn't believe how much lunch cost in the mountains and how pretty yukey it was as well. Thats another reason for wanting a change.
Such a pain that its the only week we can take off….
DB, surely you know by now that the perceived "wisdom" of snowHeads is that Austria is far too low for pre-, early, mid-, high-, Easter or even late season! The only place to go to be sure of snow is ........ Tignes or maybe Val Thorens
CeliaCo, Plenty of choices in Austria that will give you way more value for your money. Take a look at Schladming and Obertauern as I suggested, both of which will be open. Or alternatively if you are feeling nervous after all the gloom and doom about how "low" everything is and how "early" you are, take a look at DB's suggestion or some of the other places with glaciers to fall back on should God decide that s/he wants a tropical winter. Take a look at Lanersbach or any of the Tuxer villages (in the Zillertal), Sölden (where Inside Outside held their first ever outside snow camp starting on the impossibly early date of December 9th in 2009), Hochgurgl, Neustift, Kuhtai, Jerzens in the Piztal, etc. All of these are snow-sure, glacier backed up regions.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 14-10-14 16:54; edited 1 time in total
Thanks all. Am searching now…..Obertauern looks like a good option as well. My knowledge of Austria is very limited….so all new info. ALl greatly appreciated. Many thanks!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Avoiding the glacier resorts, I'd recommend Obertauern. I've had a couple of weekend's pre-xmas skiing when I lived in Munich and it's in a freaky little position meaning it gets snow when many other places don't have it. I'd also see if Kaltenbach/Hochfuegen is open. Hochfugen in particular benefits from more frequent and heavier snow than places around about and is high without being a glacier. You an stay down in the valley in Kaltenbach which would have a 'bit' more life than HF and it's easy enough to go over the back to HF from there. Being in Zillertal, you have the benefit of the Hintertux glacier if you want it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
We are going that week and have settled on Mayrhofen. Reason is that most of Zillertal is scheduled to be open, there is quite a lot of skiing quite high up, even though the town is fairly low, and if it is really poor there is always Hintertux. We are paying £479 each for a 4* hotel, half board, including lift pass, but making our own way there (driving).
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Mistress Panda, have you ever been skiing in Austria during Nov/Dec? Just wondering! Ange
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Quote:
surely you know by now that the perceived "wisdom" of snowHeads is that Austria is far too low for pre-, early, mid-, high-, Easter or even late season! The only place to go to be sure of snow is ........ Tignes or maybe Val Thorens
calm down dear, nobody has said anything of the sort. Probably ever.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mistress Panda wrote:
Personally I'd widen the search beyond Austria - sadly to get the altitude and short transfer time is fairly restrictive.
Are you sure?
Hintertux and Sölden top lifts are only 200m lower than Tignes and the transfer time to Tignes from Chambery is quoted as around 2 to 2.5 hours.
Innsbruck to Hintertux, Innsbruck to Sölden or Salzburg to Kaprun have Transfer times under 2 hours.
Not saying Austria is better than France in Dec, I don't think there is much in it.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 14-10-14 16:51; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The argument as to which country will be better early season seems a bit silly, no one knows. They tend to benefit from different weather systems and both can have either good or poor early season snow.
The best option if available IMO is to wait and see. If booking well in advance going for a high resort in either country increases your chances of good snow, but certainly does not guarantee better skiing conditions than a resort with more recently fallen snow and it increases your chances of being exposed to potentially inclement weather
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Still early season, i'd go for Obertauern, or Obergurgl/Hochgurgl, these should all be snow sure, and therefore make the whole experience better. Obertauern is an easy transit from salzburg. I used the romerhof in obertauern back in feb, and found it really good. Obergurgl and hocgurgle are accessed via Innsbruck.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Have skied... Sölden in November/December, Obertauern in November, Lech in early-ish December (forget exact dates but there was at least one whole complete week between getting back and Christmas week.
All perfectly skiable. Lech was the most skiable. Ace snow, and nice recreational terrain.
Our work do always has its start of season bash in Sölden in November (indeed the week before we skied there with Rob+Scott on the IO training thingy).
I'd pick one of them again.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Well you can't tell the future from looking at the past but here is some reassurance, videoed a few years ago on December 14th in Mayrhofen.
CeliaCo, I know you said Austria, what about Gressony, Italy with Esprit?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
CeliaCo, Serfaus was mentioned higher up. It's a fantastic resort for kids with great snow garden / lesson area up at 2000m so tends to have decent snow. Not sure what you were planning on but its a DIY only place as not on any tour operator lists any more. Largely german / dutch, not many brits about at all.
It's very snow sure, resort a good bit higher than the SkiWelt areas and most of the skiing over 2000m. In bad snow years it has been open with snowmaking when other resorts have had to put back opening dates. Just had a look and they're opening from 5th Dec this year. I'd highly recommend it and if you use the search you'll find quite a few reviews, almost entirely positive. It's a short transfer from Innsbruck if you can get reasonably priced flights.
One downside is that, by Austrian standards, its not the cheapest resort, the hotels are pretty pricey. We've gone self catering at reasonable cost by using the accommodation search off the site. I'd definitely have it on my list to consider for family friendly skiing in Austria and a good option early season.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Serfaus is a great resort for familes although a little lower than the glacier resorts (2800m). Excellent for kids but with steeper terrain and a fair amount of offpiste for the better skiers in the family. Transfer time from Innsbruck is about 1:30. It's a 30min drive to the swiss border so many Swiss visit Serfaus esp. when the Swiss currency is strong against the Euro. This also means it's not a cheap resort but worth considering as you might get a cheap deal pre-christmas.
There should be absolutely loads of accommodation available before Christmas (including ours ) , because generally people don't plan to take their skiing holidays until Christmas is out of the way and the season is in full swing. It therefore makes sense to book flights but leave it until much nearer the time to book the accommodation. I can't speak for other resorts, but here in Saalbach the season starts on 29th November, and the skiing is usually pretty good by mid-December with most of the area, including runs down to the village, open. Obviously it all depends, not so much on temperatures (which are generally cold enough from mid-November onwards, if not earlier), but on when the first sizable dump of the season arrives - and all resorts, in whichever country, can suffer from seemingly incessant blue skies. We have known it be -20C in mid-December at village-level, so not much point in rushing to book a high resort IMHO.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
CeliaCo, We have been to lower altitude resorts in Austria a number of times before Christmas and never had a problem. As long as it's cold enough, Austrian resorts tend to have significantly more snow making facilities than French resorts so there is generally good coverage.
Mistress Panda, have you ever been skiing in Austria during Nov/Dec? Just wondering! Ange
Yes. 14th Dec last year. It was quite some distance from the expectation we had been given before we went on Snowheads, we were told there would be brilliant apres, better pistes, unbelievable offpiste, cheap lunch, better quality accommodation, indeed none of these things came true, apparently before Xmas it was unreasonable of me to expect this - this is why we are returning to high altitude French resorts this year.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Mistress Panda, you obviously went to the wrong place with the wrong expectations - better luck in France.
I had a superb time skiing with Annemarie Moser-Pröll that day in perfect conditions and had an outstanding lunch in an upmarket hut above Wagrain for less than 34 Euro including drinks. I even have the pictures to prove it but I do not post pictures here ever. My friends were quite envious on Farcebook though
After all it is free
After all it is free
Mistress Panda,
Whoever told you that there would be brilliant après-ski in the middle of December must have been must have been getting confused with January, February or March. The lure of pre-season skiing is that it can provide all the other benefits you were told about, as well as empty, perfectly-groomed pistes all to yourself!
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I think the difficulty is when blanket statements are made, that say "Austria is like this" or "France is expensive" etc - that leads to me going to St Anton in December and discovering that most of the town is completely empty and closed. The OP wants advice for 13th Dec. My advice is to go for high altitude resorts that will have been open for a couple of weeks by then. If Austria has that, then great. One thing I know is that the high altitude French resorts are popular at that time of year, me included.
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Mistress Panda, I can undertand your disapointment, you had boxes to tick and sounds like you were given duff info. St Anton no doubt it was like a ghost town before xmas/NY week. And, its probably not the cheapest place either but I dont know - Ive never been. Unbelievable off piste is only unbelievable in the eye of the beholder - of course a good snowfall helps.
For me, skiing pre xmas week is awesome, its my fave part of the season. The pistes are empty of any holiday makers, just the locals and more often than not older folk on the week days who are amazing to watch. Just a few more weeks to wait and I can get going again.
Tatman's Tours - have we met? If not why not? Shall we?
Ange
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 16-10-14 14:43; edited 1 time in total
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