 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm only speaking from experience....albeit in the late 1980s-early 1990s. The only people who got "reading weeks" were people who had plenty of time to read anyway i.e. people reading humanities or social sciences. Bah! Us scientists didn't have reading weeks. Was I bitter? Just a lot.... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| STyler wrote: |
| I am looking at around £440 per person for 7 nights, and 6 days lift pass and equipment hire (skis only, no boots). |
I'm with you and usually go DIY, but food costs add up when self catering. When budgeting I consider £200pppw self catering equivalent to £400 for catered, both due to extra cost and convenience. Add £200 to your cost and you're pretty close to cheaper package prices, even before the last minute deals - I've seen £650-700 inc lift pass, though most seem to be around that without including it.
I have found this year more difficult though. The lower-mid range catered chalets we usually go for seem to be nearer £450-500 rather than the £300-400 we've paid the last couple of years. Have been looking at smaller semi-tour operators or going back to self-catering instead.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm repeating last years trip to St Johann in Tirol during February half term. It's costing £100 less than last year due to the fall in the euro. So that's £2200 for 2 adults and 2 kids inc petrol, tunnel, self catering accommodation, area lift passes, equip hire, 2 hotel stopovers, kids all day ski lessons, travel ins, breakdown cover. Last year we spent £350 on top of that for lunches on the mountain, entertainment and food.
The cheapest crystal offer at February half term on Austria in a b&b to Rauris is well over £4000.
In school hols, there's no comparison. Go DIY.
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| Drammeister wrote: |
I'm repeating last years trip to St Johann in Tirol during February half term. It's costing £100 less than last year due to the fall in the euro. So that's £2200 for 2 adults and 2 kids inc petrol, tunnel, self catering accommodation, area lift passes, equip hire, 2 hotel stopovers, kids all day ski lessons, travel ins, breakdown cover. Last year we spent £350 on top of that for lunches on the mountain, entertainment and food.
The cheapest crystal offer at February half term on Austria in a b&b to Rauris is well over £4000.
In school hols, there's no comparison. Go DIY. |
I would fully agree, the last trip we did with Crystal cost close to £10k for Feb 1/2 term 2 adults & 3 children @ The Diva, Val Claret, Tignes [well as far as TO are concerned they are charged as adults] we have halved this + over the last 3 years, 2014 including lift passes cost circa £4k.
Ok this doesn't include the food we took from home, but as we shared the apartment with our closest friends cooking the evening meal wasn't an issue, hey with a few beers & a glass of wine... it was a breeze.
Fully recommend it, we have booked 2015 Les Arcs [well just down the hill but on a lift run & tunnel & hotels booked] we make the journey part of the holiday, get in resort early Saturday & hit the hill... 
Easy with a little bit of planning.
The alternative being: pay the TO & enjoy, simple choice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BTW we took nice wine, which made the difference 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's interesting that continental Europeans seem to go in for DIY much more than Brits do - from what I can see they seem to choose a resort; do a bit of Web research; and then just ring 'round the agencies in the chosen location. Where we have our apartment in Switzerland, the majority of bookings are done this way. Our clients are mainly German and Dutch and most of them follow this pattern.
I suppose that the problem for us UK types is The Channel. The Europeans can just jump in a car and drive away. It's amazing how often the Eurotunnel and P&O prices are within £5-£10 of each other for a specific day/time. So much for competition.
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| Quote: |
It's amazing how often the Eurotunnel and P&O prices are within £5-£10 of each other for a specific day/time. So much for competition.
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If there is pure competition should the prices not be equal?
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| Quote: |
The Europeans can just jump in a car and drive away.
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We are Europeans 
Cost of tunnel is generally £100-£150 so really not a big cost in total cost for family of 5 for us
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Cacciatore wrote: |
| Sometimes, faithsdaddy, they can be absurdly low - one just has to have an open mind about where they may go. I'm sure I've seen people here mention deals of under £200 for F, T and HB. |
£280 5* hotel in Switzerland, half board, flights from the north east and transfers.
HOWEVER, the OP asked about what you get with TO that you don't get DIY. With the latter, you don't get herded around like a bunch of school kids, you don't get rep pestering you to buy stupid trips, guided ski and all that rubbish. You don't get surrounded with a coach-load of halfwits that might as well be school kids - absolutely lost without the "rep".
OK, the latter bit might be a bit harsh; and I've done the last minute TO offers just because I can't even get a flight for the cost of the whole holiday. BUT, going DIY gives you lots of flexibility and tranquillity. For me, it's *my* holiday, not the operator's, so I like to be able to please myself.
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| msej449 wrote: |
| It's interesting that continental Europeans seem to go in for DIY much more than Brits do - . |
It's the "islander" mentality. Across the channel is "foreign" and not to be trusted. That's why Brits like to stay in Brit-run chalets, ski with Brit-run ski schools, drink in Brit-run bars, etc.
That's the description - I've no idea why this is the case, though. I tend to do the European thing - just ring round a few local providers and see what the craic is. That's also how you find out about local services like breakfast delivery when self-catering. That's excellent, breakfast delivered and just eat out in the evenings. Obviously with an entirely Brit-run operation, the operators use their nouse to provide the services and just add mark-up. Nothing wrong with that, caveat emptor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Stumbler, that is a bit harsh. Every TO trip be have been on has gone like this:
Get off plane, collect luggage and at departures get shown transfer coach by rep. If this is like being herded then surely so is any form of public transport. Get given our welcome pack and lift passes on transfer bus. The welcome pack contains piste maps and details of any ski away days, ski guiding along with times when the rep will be at the hotel/apartment if you have any need to see him/her.
Get dropped off at hotel. We tend not to bother with the reps after that although we occasionally do the ski away days. Ski the week and night before leaving get a note slipped under the door to inform us of pick-up time for return transfer.
Having said that, you are limited to the properties the TO offer, and if you want the holiday to be *your* holiday then you have much more flexibility if you book the resort, flights (or train or drive yourself), transfer and accommodation individually.
I think most Brits tend to stick to Brit-run places abroad because we, are in the main, lazy with foreign languages ("they all speak english anyway"- is a curse of speaking english). And yes, you will probably have more english speaking folk in your hotel, although we have also been the only english speaking guests in the hotel going with a TO.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dode - my last minute TO deal was similar. I'm not totally knocking it, we had a great trip at a great price. The TO thing is just not for me; though I have many friends who just wouldn't dream of organising any trip themselves. There's no right and no wrong. I think the stumbling block is the keenness of the rep, get a lazy one and you're in business! Get a keen one and they're forever trying to "help" or check everything's OK.
There is a fix for being herded onto a coach, or any public transport - rent a car!
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For a couple and if the price is right, how can a TO be beaten? It's like Dode says. As for making it 'your' holiday, you pick the flight time and the hotel- what more do you need really. You pick board to suit and every minute between transfers is your own.
If there is ONE thing I would like to change, it's the length of the holiday. Ours was typically Saturday to Saturday, which is 6 days of skiing- 7 if you're really lucky. Well, how about getting there Friday night/ early Saturday and leaving the following Sunday evening? Then it's 9 days instead of 6, for the same amount of time off work. That's 50% more skiing 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Well, how about getting there Friday night/ early Saturday and leaving the following Sunday evening?
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nice idea in theory, but generally unworkable in practice unless the people who have the apartment the week before/after don't mind sharing for a night
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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faithsdaddy, it's very easy to ski on both the arrival and departure Saturdays (which are usually nice and quiet) without having to rent an apartment for more than the standard 7 nights. Just one of the advantages of DIY. The huge advantage, to my eyes, is that you have an infinitely greater choice of accommodation, both in terms of location and standards. Most of the apartments offered by British TOs are in a handful of French resorts. I spent years looking for self-catering in Austria - found it once, and very nice it was too, but gone from the Inghams brochure the following year, and that was before the days of internet. But if you want to self cater in Austria (or do anything outside the few favoured TO resorts anywhere) then DIY is the answer, especially with all the useful information available on snowheads.
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Poster: A snowHead
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How many Brits use tour ops for holidaying in their own country- a very small proportion i'd say - so i can't really see the difference between a londoner booking a cottage in Cornwall and driving down or a parisian doing likewise with a trip down to the alps.
For some price isn't really an issue which in some cases means they just want to pay the money and let others sort everything out for them (i did a trip to Oz for the ashes in 2010/11 it cost us approx £2.5k each all in for 4 weeks staying in very nice apartments wheras Gullivers were doing similar itinerary but everything arranged for you for £5.5k- there were plenty still happy to pay it though) but there are also other people who want to arrange their own holiday exactly how they want it which might mean paying a bit extra but is worth it for them.
There are a lot of people that price plays a big part - i would never dream of paying brochure prices a year in advance but then i have the luxury of there only being 2 of us and able to book late and outside of peak holidays, we like to go half board or catered so in my experience heavily discounted tour op deals will almost always be cheaper for us- wheras i can understand why many with kids will find diy a lot cheaper if tied to peak weeks and the earlier you book usually means the cheaper (and more choice) it will be.
As to the pros and cons - whilst waiting at airports on a coach for incoming flights(this doesn't happen with all tour ops) can be frustrating but so can waiting in a queue at airport car rental desks too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
so can waiting in a queue at airport car rental desks too.
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not to mention putting on snowchains in a blizzard in a lay-by full of filthy snow. Sense of adventure needed, sometimes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For us TO wins easily for ski holidays. Not at all fussy with accommodation, want food provided, off peak week. Addoin the can't be bothered driving / navigating to/ from the airport and stressing about brimming the car at painful o'clock when the card machines won't work (for anyone- we have a French card). Hence napping on the TO transfer or listening to an audio book or watching a film is more relaxing and makes up for the marginally early started.
Add in that in the event of an ash cloud or fog, snowmageddon, broken down vehicle or strike, solving the problem is someone else's issue.
If self drive was still possible - for 2 it's not really economically viable now we don't have a company car- it would be more tempting as the extra day is easier, no luggage limits and familiar car/ snow chains all make life more appealing. Suspect the economics will change if kids happen... or if friends fancy a shared drive but its hardto beat to offers as a not too fussy couple
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| msej449 wrote: |
It's interesting that continental Europeans seem to go in for DIY much more than Brits do - from what I can see they seem to choose a resort; do a bit of Web research; and then just ring 'round the agencies in the chosen location. Where we have our apartment in Switzerland, the majority of bookings are done this way. Our clients are mainly German and Dutch and most of them follow this pattern.
I suppose that the problem for us UK types is The Channel. The Europeans can just jump in a car and drive away. It's amazing how often the Eurotunnel and P&O prices are within £5-£10 of each other for a specific day/time. So much for competition. |
Day trips by bus are good value, choice of resorts, buses leave at 07:30 ish, in resort by 9am, ski all day, bus leaves resort at 16:30, back home for 18:00 ish and it costs ~ £50 for travel and lift pass (which is less than you'd pay for a return transfer from Geneva Airport flying out from the UK!).
For longer trips I'll just use booking.com to find the cheapest place to stay then drive or get the train depending on distance and number of people going.
Can get some good last minute hotel deals if you're looking for something on a Thursday/Friday for the coming week/weekend.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Stumbler, that is a bit harsh. Every TO trip be have been on has gone like this:
Get off plane, collect luggage and at departures get shown transfer coach by rep
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I have some slightly different experiences:
Get off plane wait 4 hours for transfer bus ....
Get off plane wait 2 hours for flight from Gatwick to arrive then abandon the idea and trasfer bus goes anyway
Transfer bus arrives in resort drops family off in car park on the outskirts of St Anton with announcement that some one from chalet will be along shortly to collect us. After 3 hours in sub zero conditions and panicy phone call to head office, resort rep arrives to take us to chalet. Noone thought to actually tell us where the chalet was in the brochures and the on the bus gumf.
Transfer bus spends hours driving around other resorts and parts of your resort before dropping you off. Reps have no idea what is going on because this is there first ever transfer.
Transfer bus stops on route from Lyon to Les Arcs, for a break of 30 minutes (on a 2:30 journey!)
Prebooked taxi from Bourg st Maurice to Tignes isn't waiting. After two hours and phone calls to the tour oprator the taxi arrives. At least this lot kept us in the picture
On departure told we will be picked from x place at y time. Stand in cold for 2 hours waiting for said bus.
Rep keeps trying to sell skidooing (one actually went well; hold on that was the one we where we went to the skidoo place and organised it ourselves).
Rep organises pathetic quiz and charges everyone to enter
Rep has us thrown out of hotel bar because differnt tour operator organises patheic quiz
Rep organises pub crawl. We get thrown out of first pub before we have even started our drinks (possibly something to do with rep's commission)
Let us ignore the attempts at guiding.
At least when you you organise things yourself your can sort problems out on the ground instead of waiting for the tour operator to find out what to do.
However the the price is often amazingly low and often amazingly high. As always you do your research
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Usually been happy to go with TO because our half term has not "collided with" main UK half term. Not so this year. Half terms collide. Just organised DIY trip to Norway for half-term. With Crystal would have been about £4300 for accommodation, flights and transfer. DIY for about £2300.
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I think it is pretty obvious from the thread that it is a bit of horses for courses with some preferring the all in nature of a package combined with the very attractive price regimes for some whereas others prefer the bespoke nature of DIY which can also result in substantial savings depending on requirements. I am firmly in the latte group but if my holiday were taken more a deux low season I would happily take the sometimes fabulous savings of the package.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| michaelbury17 wrote: |
I would fully agree, the last trip we did with Crystal cost close to £10k for Feb 1/2 term 2 adults & 3 children @ The Diva, Val Claret, Tignes [well as far as TO are concerned they are charged as adults] we have halved this + over the last 3 years, 2014 including lift passes cost circa £4k.
Ok this doesn't include the food we took from home, but as we shared the apartment with our closest friends cooking the evening meal wasn't an issue, hey with a few beers & a glass of wine... it was a breeze.
Fully recommend it, we have booked 2015 Les Arcs [well just down the hill but on a lift run & tunnel & hotels booked] we make the journey part of the holiday, get in resort early Saturday & hit the hill...
Easy with a little bit of planning.
The alternative being: pay the TO & enjoy, simple choice. |
The Diva is a 4* Half board hotel, of course it costs more than a self catering trip. I stayed there a few years back, last minute deal from Ireland in early January, it was €413 for the week, with flights and transfers. Really nice hotel at that price.
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As an aside I'm literally mid book, flights booked, first weeks accommodation booked and I've just run into a problem.
When I stayed in Banff last I stayed in the Caribou Lodge, thought I'd do the same this time. Chatting with the reception staff last time he said they would happily price match internet prices from trip advisor etc. So I priced up the trip, and within a couple of quid here or there I've been bang on. I called hotel reservation and explained, only to find that some companies are pricing rooms incorrectly, so I'm coming up some €300 short for the week!! They did say there's a couple of companies which advertise and have sold rooms when there's no availability, they're based in eastern Europe.
So I guess buyer/DIYer beware. One advantage of booking with a TO?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Stumbler wrote: |
| Cacciatore wrote: |
| Sometimes, faithsdaddy, they can be absurdly low - one just has to have an open mind about where they may go. I'm sure I've seen people here mention deals of under £200 for F, T and HB. |
£280 5* hotel in Switzerland, half board, flights from the north east and transfers.
HOWEVER, the OP asked about what you get with TO that you don't get DIY. With the latter, you don't get herded around like a bunch of school kids, you don't get rep pestering you to buy stupid trips, guided ski and all that rubbish. You don't get surrounded with a coach-load of halfwits that might as well be school kids - absolutely lost without the "rep".
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I've never experienced any of those with a TO either.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rogg, several Snowheads have recently reported having booked with a TO, all confirmed, only to be told quite late in the day that the holiday they booked is no longer available. Nothing is certain.
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pam w, I recall a couple of threads about that , but I think the difference is they were refunded or offered an alternative. I'm guessing if I booked a room with one of the suspect websites I would arrive in resort to find no room, and no refund.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| rogg, several Snowheads have recently reported having booked with a TO, all confirmed, only to be told quite late in the day that the holiday they booked is no longer available. Nothing is certain. |
Strange. That has just happened to a friend of mine.
He was meant to be going to Claviere but has now been pushed to Sauze.
He's not bothered as the hotel looks better 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Throwing my angle into the debate. I plan on going for 5 nights over New Years - Tuesday-Sunday. I have found a few B&B hotels at varying distances from questionable resorts.
- If I wait until Boxing Day-ish to book, am I likely to get any last minute accommodation? Presumably at bargain prices I can just pay for 7 nights instead of finding a place that will let me just have 5
- If waiting is a daft idea due to it being the busiest week of the year, does anyone have thoughts on where I can find space for 4/5 nights in a half-decent resort? There's 2 of us travelling
We don't need flights as we won't be starting by the journey in the UK.
Cheers!
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Poster: A snowHead
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eshroom, best bet would probably be to stay in a hotel within easy day-driving reach of some good skiing. For example Sallanches, which is within easy reach of Combloux, Megeve, Les Contamines and Flaine and not far from a number of other great areas. There will be loads of other options - that's just one I know well.
Can you not do 5 days Monday - Saturday and rent an apartment for a week? You are spanning two weeks in most accommodation by wanting the Sunday night as well. But even then, pretty well all the decent apartments will already be let for New Year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stumbler, i can only assume you were born with a built in knowledge of ski resorts and how to get about. I have been one of those half wits getting off the bus for the first time having never been on a skiing holiday before and all i can say is thank god for the rep cause they were brilliant and kept me right all week. Now a veteran of ski holidays and having been 6 times with Crystal (and booked on two further crystal hols for 2015) i am a fan of the TO. I have tried to price DIY before and the biggest hurdle is always transfers which cost a fortune. Also living in Scotland we don't get the mega cheap flight options from London and driving is just too far.
Ellmau first up in February, 2 adults and 2 kids, catered chalet, lift passes and ski carriage included for £3067. i could not beat that anywhere.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So I DIY'd it as I figured last minute over new year's break would be tough to find, it also gives me the flexibility of getting there Sunday, which means more time with family during Christmas period and skiing on changeover day!
- For Sunday to Sunday rentals I search papvacances.fr and homeaway.co.uk - both French owned sites, though Homeaway has an English website too. Loads of choice. Most ask for Saturday-Saturday but as they are private owners, many are willing to make an exception.
- Travel, I am flying in to Geneva from Greece, but one of our group is taking the Eurostar, via Paris, to Bourg-St-Maurice (not snow train, Eurostar, TGV combo) - we are in Les Arcs, so this will actually take less time and cost less than flight plus transfer
- On the way back, we are all taking the overnight sleeper-train
- Total cost for self-catering apartment, travel, ski hire and ski pass for my friend is £540 (my journey isn't originating in the UK, so probably not a fair comparison) - apartment is at the foot of the pistes
Given the flexibility of Sunday-Sunday and the fact it is New Year's, I think this is pretty good going. Back when I was at uni and could just waltz off off in mid-January for a week, I remember getting catered-chalets, flights and transfer for under £300 last minute.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Back when I was at uni and could just waltz off off in mid-January for a week, I remember getting catered-chalets, flights and transfer for under £300 last minute.
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Where did you study that you could get off in mid January?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| johnE wrote: |
Where did you study that you could get off in mid January? |
Most unis tend to not go back until the 3rd week of January, or at least the ones me and my mates went to.
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FAQ
