 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm I missing something
This is hypothetical as I'm already booked up with TO but the weathers been pants today so was twiddling my thumbs anyway.
Flights Jet 2 Edinburgh - Salzberg with luggage and skis x 2
Transfers x2
Same hotel same rooms etc
Closest I can get is still £100 more doing it diy
There was the option of public transport but that was evolving two changes each way and probably about an extra 1.5 hours and still more than TO
I could have got cheaper flights to Munich but would have had to factor in more travelling time and travel costs.
We have done a few diy trips in the summer but that was for holidays where we were touring about and a hire car was what we had planned to do anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Off to get popcorn......
I guess it depends what you're looking for, if going for self-drive and self-catering I have yet to find a TO cheaper than the DIY option.
Horses for courses and arguments for both. Stick to your preferred option!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Isn't it that DIY is typically cheaper but less convenient? To get the same convenience as a TO doing it DIY you'll pay more, i've been looking / planning various things to put together a suite of options for our group trip. DIY does look cheaper, but thats before any travel and transfer...
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Depends what you consider to be convenient. I'll happily drive across France or sit on a train for a few hours. I don't mind flying if I can go from my local airport at a sociable hour.
However I find having to get to Gatwick for 5am and the inevitable transfer bus leaving resort at a similar time deeply inconvenient!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We've done both in the past, and only do DIY now, unless you count snowHeads bashes. It's as Boris says, Horses for courses. When we self-catered in shoeboxes with 2 kids, we were still charged a fortune in under-occupancy supplements. It was always cheaper to DIY, regardless of whether we flew or drove, even if we booked a larger apartment in the same building . DIY also gave us the opportunity to stay in places that weren't over-run with British tour operators and hotels we would never have visited otherwise. Last TO holiday was probably a chalet trip to Les Arcs, a last minute bargain which wouldn't have been possible DIY. Banff was cheaper by TO, Whistler was DIY and cheaper than a TO.
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We have always gone DIY, mainly because as a party of 2 adults and 4 kids this was always the cheapest option for us. However we have booked with TO for our February trip as it will only be two adults and we got a pretty good deal and one of things looking forward to most is not bothering with car hire.
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We used a TO last year (Soll, Austria) and are going DIY this year (Alpe d'Huez, France). Without booking last minute, we just go for what seems cheapest at the time. Crystal very good last season with various deals, but they seem more expensive this year from Scotland. Meanwhile, we were luckier with flight prices this year which made DIY an attractive option.
Generally I try to beat the following for a DIY ski holiday for two, although it's certainly possible to come in under-budget for a few categories:
Flights & baggage: £200
Transfer: £100
Accommodation: £300
Lift passes: £400
Ski hire: £100
Total: £1100 (not including food)
So with a tour operator, you'd need to be looking at under £300 each (flights, transfer, accommodation) to beat that, unless they're offering deals on lift passes which could save £100 or so.
Garfield, one reason why you can't beat the TO prices might be because you're only looking at one hotel. Lots of other places to stay might not be offered by TOs, and cheaper.
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Garfield,
I posted this on Feef's thread the other day, but it is often very easy to beat TO prices, especially if you are going at peak times and with children. This Christmas 2 adults and 2 kids I save about £1500 and get a better room in the same hotel by DIYing (a suite instead of a double bedroom and sofa beds). Also BA flights at good times, free ski carriage etc etc.
Similar story for Feb half term, but not quite such a saving as I booked the flights a bit later (and I've got to slum it on Lufthansa).
Easter I will probably either go for a late TO deal to follow the snow, or if admin's family bash comes off I might get to meet some more internet weirdos 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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TO prices look good, but for France especially the accom is pretty crowded and low spec. I much prefer to arrange my own directly and have some comfort.
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A few years ago our return flight was cancelled due to fog at Leeds. TO took us to a hotel, we had dinner and an early breakfast before returning next day to fly home. I don't know what the situation would have been travelling independently particularly with a low cost airline?
On a cost front looking for a nice hotel including food I struggle to beat the TOs.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Scarpa, where do you find these cheap French offerings? Not crowded and high spec is right up my street 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When looking at hotel prices (TO v DIY), be aware that you might not be comparing like with like. A few years ago, for a treat we stayed at a very nice lakeside hotel in Zell am See, through a TO. Our rooms were in the annex, not in the main hotel. The promised view of the lake was only possible if I balanced on a chair and crained my neck out of a very small window. Our meals seemed to be basic - certainly other tables seemed to have better menu choices, but we were all sat together in one area of the dining room. I got the distinct impression that we were getting a TO deal, not the real deal.
I also have experience of TOs charging for under-occupancy even where the hotel is charging a flat room-rate, or charging extra for children when the hotel has a 'children-stay-free' deal. As someone else has said, TOs are only looking at a very small number of hotels in a resort - typically fewer than 10 in a resort that might have over 100 hotels, Pensions and B&Bs.
For a hotel, I would always recommend going directly to the hotel - they would rather sell a room to you with a small discount than have to pay a hefty commission to a TO and wait until April for their money. For a catered chalet, the TO deal is probably the best, because they need to fill beds rather than have them empty, so are keen to do last minute deals. For apartments, if you can get the flights then DIY is very good. There are hundreds of apartments advertised on the internet at all manner of prices.
As for 'what if we get delayed by fog/snow/volcanos' - this is where your travel insurance and a bit of legwork come in, although even the low-cost airlines have obligations. Yes, there is a risk, but in over 30 years, it has only happened to me twice. Once Ski Olympic did an excellent job of getting us into a local hotel and on the plane the next day. On the second occasion, easyjet did the same, although it took them a bit longer to organise, but we were fed and watered at the airport and then bussed to a hotel. If we had needed to organise it ourselves, we had travel insurance to claim on and it would not have been so difficult - the city we were stranded in had plenty of hotels, many near the airport, and next day there were a number of flights we could have taken to get home.
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denfinella, where do you fly from when diy'ing? Abz?
Like Garfield, I struggle to find a cheaper DIY option (driving isn't an option from Moray- unless you are a masochist).
Always been given same menu as all other guests and never felt cheated in room choice.
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You know it makes sense.
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dode, no, Edinburgh or Glasgow really. I used to live in Aberdeen but even then it was cheaper to drive to the Central Belt. Flights are probably the easiest to come in under-budget on, although that target includes baggage. £177 this year from Edinburgh to Grenoble with Easyjet, booked a couple of weeks ago.
Can PM you with a more specific breakdown if you'd like.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Like a lot of others it depends on when where and how I am going, low season many tour operator prices are very competitive and hard to beat, peak season a bit of planning usually sees me undercutting their prices by qutie a margin. Nowadays I rarely look at tour operator prices as I find I usually am looking for something slightly different from the standard packages either in terms of duration or destination or type of accommodation. There are often pretty good packages available though low season if that is what suits and the last minute bargains can be impossible to beat on a DIY basis.
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Poster: A snowHead
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denfinella, if you could be bothered, that would be interesting to see, thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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dode, have done.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Levi215, Switzerland and Austria lol
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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denfinella, cheers, got it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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We attempted DIY for our group of 12 for Jan 2015. Came in approx £100 per person cheaper than our very best TO price, we opted for the TO due to that extra £100 giving us catered chalet. Horses for courses though, some of my friends have saved a fortune by DIY.
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It really depends what you are looking for. If you are comparing like for like, outside of peak weeks, TO is usually cheaper. But the TO market has contracted a lot, fewer flights available (that's true of all airlines, not just charter), generally less choice. So if you want something that is not available through the TO market, there are plenty of alternatives. Where DIY often falls down is transfers, if there are enough of you to make hiring a car financially viable, that's often the best way. But there are several resorts in easy reach of airports such as Salzburg, Innsbruck, Geneva with decent bus/taxi transfer services.
If it's simply about saving money and you are not tied to a particular week or destination, a late deal with a TO is generally hard to beat.
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Levi215, As well as using Flangesax's place as a base in Radstadt I just searched for local guesthouses on the net, I think I had one once for £125 for the week. A big gang of my friends found a ski in ski out chalet for 20 in Schladming this Feb half term that works out about £235 per person self catering. You can get a return transfer from Salzburg for €50 if I recall.
But as said above, for real cheap deals last minute offers from a TO often can't be beat.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have done both and if you are going to a main resort and have a standard size group, It seems hard to beat the tour operators. The hotels I looked at generally charged a similar price to the package, but without the flight and transfer. Admittedly on one holiday we were put in the annex when with a tour operator, but I've never felt I had different food or service because of it. Usually it would be economically unviable for a hotel to offer poorer food for some guests.
Saying that I do prefer to travel independently where you are not at the mercy of tour operators with awful flight times and ridiculously pessimistic transfer times that result in leaving the resort at 6.30am. I don't like the way reps often talk to you as if you have an iq of 15 and I find it less stressful on my own cause if anything goes wrong, I can solve it myself, rather than being dependant on reps who really don't seem to have a clue what's going on and are only interested in selling excursions.
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OK folks I will put my hand up and admit to trolling a bit. I wasn't expecting a right or wrong answer I know there's not one and can see benefits in both options depending on:
Where you live
Are you happy to drive
Do you have to take holidays at peak times
Can you stand the faff of airports
etc
For ski trips we have always went down the TO route. Thats down to where we live ruling out the driving option due to the distances and also I have to drive more than a want to in winter as it is without having to do so on holidays
Summer trips we do a mix of diy and TO
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 5-10-14 16:20; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think that Garfield, has hit it on the head - one of the major limiting factors is where you live in the UK. As Garfield, and denfinella, both live in Scotland, filghts are likely to be limited and pricey, whereas for those living in the south-east and midlands, there are numerous departure airports and driving is also a viable option.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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quinton, I would say it's even more than that, it's London people who have a quick trip to the tunnel and multiple airlines with lots of scheduled. BA to Geneva for example, seems ample daily departures from London, from Manchester it's the shuttle to Heathrow which instantly doubles the cost. Similarly it's 4-5 hours to the channel tunnel rather than 1-2 from the South East.
I do think however that for couples it's generally expensive vs the family, i can see how for a family you can really reduce the costs. I was looking at a Serfaus transfer from innsbruck and it's £300 for the two of us, assuming that it's £600 for 4 i can see how car hire can significantly reduce the overall costs, but for a couple it's probably marginal.
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I have done both, and personally prefer DIY, but it does depend on circumstances at the time as to how I will book. For DIY, flights, transfers, ski hire and lift passes are generally the same price throughout the season, and independent accommodation prices don't tend to vary as much as TO prices (ignoring peak weeks), so it doesn't make a huge difference to the total which week you go outside of peak. This means that you can beat mid-high season weeks fairly easily, but will struggle to top a last minute off-peak TO deal.
The other consideration for me is service and standard of accommodation. I have found that service quality is generally better with independent companies, and you can often get a better standard of accommodation for the same price. Lots of hotels and chalet companies run their own mini buses or use someone local nowadays as well, so you can often book through them which cuts out one thing to organise.
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You know it makes sense.
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quinton, I'm not so sure location in the UK makes such a big difference to the difference between TO and DIY prices actually. Certainly living in Scotland means flights are generally more expensive, but TO prices increase too by a similar amount. Although obviously DIY via self-drive is less competitive from Scotland.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Going to Mayrhofen 10th Jan DIY. Here are the costings.
4* Hotel inc lift pass €800
Transfer from Munich €85
Total €885 = £705 @ €1.25 per £1
Flight to Munich inc ski carriage £112
Grand total £817
Big advantage is using scheduled flights you can choose your flight times. We fly 11.00 out of Heathrow and return from Munich approx 16 00. No silly time transfers to airports. Plus scheduled flights have more leg room and a hot snack + beer + tea/coffee included. No route march to gate at Heathrow like Gatwick, no scrum to check in we just walk straight up to the desk. You can get cheaper accommodation if you look around.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Another thing in favour of TO is not having to,pick up hire car. We have had some nightmare experiences at Munich Airport with carhire desks so much so that for our New Year DIY trip this year we are flying into Munich on Friday evening rather than Saturday morning to beat the Queues at carhire desk and booked into B&b about an hour from Munich
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As was said right at the beginning, it's all horses for courses! Me and my mates prefer to rent accommodation so I prefer to DIY it, as we can pick up a nice 55 m2 apartment for about £170 pp.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It depends on the ski resort. Some ski resorts are cheaper and easier to DIY, and some cheaper and easier to go with TO. Guess what, the TO's generally only go to those where it is cheaper to go with a TO.
It seems to me that the airport transfer is where the big differential occurs.
Have you ever costed your airport transfer on this side? You will probably be surprised at how expensive it is compared to the other side. (especially if you drive and leave a car at the airport because you got the cheapest flight at 4am in the morning)
How many TO's offer package deals to ski in Scottish ski areas? There is your answer, it is easier and cheaper to DIY.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It also depends on party size.
As a solo traveller, driving just would not make sense, and cheap transfers aren't easy to find.
I also travel outside peak times (I usually go 1st or 2nd full week in January), and every time I have tried to price up a comparison (not limiting it to the same hotels as the TOs, but the same category), I have never managed to find the DIY total to be within £50 of the TO price - that is always looking for half board accommodation, usually in Austria, where TOs tend to have lower single supplements than in some countries.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree Bigtipper, I haven't done a TO for years, it always works out better for us to DIY always. I managed to book a week in January in the same ski resort as TO was offering and will get us all there, plus car hire, plus apartment for €1200, cheapest I could get with TO was €465 each, so quite a good saving, it will pay for the kids lift passes. It also means we will be avoiding drop off , drag your cases syndrome that happens when you leave or get to a resort with several other coach loads of people.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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alex_heney, it is not so much the cheap transfers, it is the cheap transfers which link up with the cheap flights.
Driving as a solo traveller for one week skiing does not make sense. If you stay for one month, or two months then it can make it worthwhile if you save on accommodation costs.
Generally though, solo travellers who want a week DIY are best going to places where the transfers are shortest and the accommodation is hostel like. (or in fact a hostel)
Innsbruck for example is a very short distance from the airport. A taxi ride, or cheap bus transfer is possible. (you could even walk) Youth hostels are in Innsbruck. You could take day trips to other nearby resorts. I have never done this, but it seems good if there are cheap flights to Innsbruck from an airport near you.
Switzerland is much better for DIY that TOs. The trains are superb, and many go straight into resort. They are also cost efficient. You might be surprised at how cheap Switzerland can be if you get hostel type accommodation for a solo traveller. Granted if you are looking for a week drinking and partying, not all Swiss resorts will be suitable. However, if you are going for the skiing, then you will not be disappointed.
You could stay in a hostel in Bourg St Maurice, and ski in Les Arcs, La Plagne, and Espace Killy. Get the train there and it is the same price for one as it is for two divided by two.
Brides les Bains has a frequent and relatively cheap transfers. It is usually used for weekend breaks because of this. Unfortunately, there is not much in the way of hostel type accommodation for solos. However, you can get some bargains there, which allows you access to the three valleys in France.
For most people though, it is too much hassle to do the research and they just want the ease and convenience of a TO. If you only have 20-30 days holidays a year, then clearly you will want to pay for simplicity. Given that TOs offer convenience and good prices where the skiing is good and the all important backup in case of problems.
Driving yourself can be fraught with problems. Roads are treacherous, and a flat tyre on a steep mountain ice covered road is not a simple procedure to get yourself out of. The mobile phone might not work, and you may be there for hours if not days.
Avalanches occur, and block roads to resorts. This happened on my first ski holiday to Val Thorens. The tour operator knew about this in advance, and took us to a hotel for the first night by Annecy. If you do it yourself, you would be sat in a traffic jam for hours wondering why it was not moving all night long.
It is safer to go with TO, unless you are experienced in driving in mountains and have lots of spare time. Most people do not have the spare time, or experience.
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biddpyat, TOs generally do not offer good deals for solos. However, they do best in some resorts in Italy and Austria. It is always cheaper to do it as a group, but then you have group dynamic problems. Who is the group leader? How do you get the group to agree with decisions which have to be made at times of high stress? What happens when things go wrong, who is to blame?
It can be less hassle letting the TO deal with these decisions, than trying to get a group to agree by democratic means.
Who will take all the individuals money and pay for the lot? You have to know each other, and trust each other. Groups therefore cannot be formed from people who do not know each other initially.
TOs make it easier for groups who are not very cohesive.
They serve their market, and it is the market which probably spends the most on skiing. DIY ers are cheapskates in general! (me included)
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Whole point of TO vs DIY is not to compare like for like, but the fact that DIY gives the freedom to go where TO don't. Either other resorts, different accommodation, etc. And there's an awful lot of chalets and apartments out there (and hotels too) that don't feature in the brochure.
Plus with DIY you don't get the sales spiel and coersion to join all the extra-cost activities, that you do when you have to go to the bar in a different hotel at exactly 8pm to collect lift passes from the TO rep. DIY... my lift pass appears on the breakfast table, or I collect it in my own time from the lift office.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Never had to do that on a TO trip (been on quite a few). The passes have either been handed out on the transfer coach or brought to the accommodation. Extra activities have usually just been listed in the "pack" one gets. That's about 18-20 odd weeks of experience with TO ski trips. By and large, very positive.
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Inghams. Mayrhofen. Always had to go to Hotel Kramerwirt (admittedly not far to walk from the Neue Post or Neuhaus) to collect lift pass between certain times presumably chosen to fit in with several hotels' worth of half board arrangements. And of course they would want to upsell an area pass in place of the local pass that you had the voucher for (although in Zillertal, all passes more than 2 days are now an area pass, but weren't back then). On a good day, you're there first and have passes in 5 minutes. On a bad day there's 2 families of 4 there first sorting out childcare with rep with 100s of questions as it's their first time, and you get to wait half an hour before you swap a voucher for a pass.
Sure I'd do it again, if I ever move back to UK, even though they did cock up ski rental pre-order vouchers making me pay cash and claim back later (it was their admin staff in the old Putney HQ that were at fault).
Internet is just to easy to use now and click... click... click... and you have a holiday booked, regardless of TO or DIY. And I drive or fly when I want, stay where I want, and usually get an extra 1-2 days.
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FAQ
love Austria. Looked at Mayerhofen via the tourist board and could beat TO that way. Is that how you generally go about it?