 Poster: A snowHead
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Wondering if anyone has tips to help me with a problem I'm having in turns? As an intro, just started ski-ing last winter using Youtube videos, had one lesson in a fridge that didn't teach me a huge amount. I know, get a lesson; would rather spend the money on lift passes and petrol if I'm honest, quite enjoying figuring it out as I go.
Anyway, in turns either direction, my skis feel like they are running away from me. I think what is happening is when my legs compress slightly in the turn, they just bend at the knee and my weight goes back. I have tried the trick of getting the hands up and forward, but it seems like I just bend more at the waist; this does centre my weight in some sense, but it takes me out of a tall stance and doesn't make me put any pressure on the shins.
Does anyone have any little hints (apart from book a lesson!), to get me bending my ankles and opening up the torso/thigh angle in the turns? Bend ze knees doesn't seem to work for me as a mantra. I've vaguely heard of pulling your toes up, clenching your back bottom cheeks, thrusting your crotch etc., any of these work?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Get a recommendation and take a lesson. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Get a recommendation and take a lesson. |
+1
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You can try all kinds of things, but in reality it will cost you a lot more money spending several days on your next trip fixing what an instructor could in one day at a fridge.
You have worked out that you are in the back seat. You need to get your weight forward or this will kill your chances of skiing anything remotely difficult with any hint of competence.
One day in a fridge is £100 with a good instructor sorting this. Find some money.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Get a recommendation and take a lesson. |
+1
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Get a recommendation and take a lesson. |
+10
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@Taurig, almost without exception, you can't teach yourself to ski.
End of.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
in reality it will cost you a lot more money spending several days on your next trip fixing what an instructor could in one day at a fridge
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+1
@Taurig, which fridge is your local fridge? SnowHeads may be able to recommend some specific instructors for you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Taurig, I suspect they'd be working on your turn shape and thinking about weighting the outside ski. But maybe not; if I were an instructor, I wouldn't need to pay for lessons.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Taurig, seriously. Skiing is so non-intuitive, it's insane. DH biking is nothing like as complex.
Make life hard, make life easy (and more fun). Your choice.
To amplify, trying to teach yourself to ski, using often rubbish utube tutorials will result in you teaching yourself to ski badly and thus engrainibg and reinforcing many bad or dreadful habits that will take years of practice and instruction to eradicate.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 7-11-14 22:22; edited 1 time in total
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| Taurig wrote: |
Let me rephrase my original question: if I were to go to an instructor with that particular issue, what advice do you think they'd give?
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A good instructor will look at your skiing, identify what needs to be worked on first and have you work on that. They can adapt to any new issues that arise.
So the best advice anyone can give you here is what has already been said. Bite the bullet and book a lesson with a good instructor either at xscape or hillend which may work out cheaper and allow you to have more lessons and more practice time after the lesson.
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You know it makes sense.
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It also should be said that constant lessons aren't required. A good idea of what should be happening and thing to work on, repeated every so often will go a long way.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Get stacked, stay stacked , work on snowploughs first to learn weight transfer. Your fundamental problem is you aren't balanced on your skis then you're using some non standard mechanic to start your turns.
But an instructor will fix all this for you without us guessing. You can look at the thread quoted above for an example of how just being athletic and cocky doesn't necessarily get you anywhere good fast. It can sort of work if you're a natural mimic and have very good people to follow around ( but they're hard to find).
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Taurig, seriously. Skiing is so non-intuitive, it's insane. DH biking is nothing like as complex.
Make life hard, make life easy (and more fun). Your choice.
To amplify, trying to teach yourself to ski, using often rubbish utube tutorials will result in you teaching yourself to ski badly and thus engrainibg and reinforcing many bad or dreadful habits that will take years of practice and instruction to eradicate. |
This.
My other sport is whitewater kayaking, which is also pretty easy to self teach (like you, I learnt a lot from waching the pros, and I have pretty nice technique).
Skiing is very different though; it's massively un-intuitive and the bio-mechanics are pretty complex. You can probably self-bodge a way to slip and skid around red/black pistes if you're determined and athletic enough, but if you have any aspiration to ski remotely interesting terrain you'll need decent basic technique, which you'll only get through lessons. Trying to teach yourself will only result in bad habits that will hold you back much longer as it takes a lot longer to correct them than to learn them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Taurig wrote: |
..if I'm honest, quite enjoying figuring it out as I go.
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OK...most of us have been there. The enjoyment will soon fade 
The skis aren't "running away" from you; you're not keeping up with them.
A vid of your skiing would help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Taurig,
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When I read that you cannot teach yourself to ski, the uninformed idiot in me just asks 'why?', and is more determined not to take lessons
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If it's a matter of pride then don't go there. Your enjoyment will sky rocket the moment you start to get some skills sorted out, and this will happen quicker with lessons. The skills you need for mountain biking are in no way a good analogy as to why you won't need skiing lessons. Take a look at that thread I pointed you at and the realisation that our friend there finally came to.
You know there are things you need to work on, you wouldn't have come here to ask if this wasn't the case. A few lessons won't take away your satisfaction of improving under your own steam, but they will ensure that you get some fundamentals sorted out and these will greatly improve your enjoyment, your safety and probably most importantly the safety of those skiing on the same mountain when you suddenly find that you have become an unguided missile heading towards a ski line containing a dozen kids on the mountain. If you won't take lessons for yourself, then please, please take them for the safety of those skiing on the same bit of mountain as you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@glasgowcyclops: really appreciate the offer, however I do have prior engagements this weekend. Another time perhaps.
Ok, I'm going to save everyone some time and just abandon this thread. I do question why a technique forum exists when the answer is consistently 'get a lesson', but hey, I'll look into them.
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@Taurig, it is because what you are asking is very difficult to describe, what you are asking us to do is a bit like me ringing a mechanic and telling them my car keeps making a funny noise.
An instructor needs to see what you are doing, and then can see it and fix it.
I suspect some of us are also a bit reluctant because we've seen plenty of people try and teach themselves to ski and put both themselves and us in danger when their skis get away from them...
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| ALQ wrote: |
| .. A vid of your skiing would help. |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I still need lessons, after several seasons because good instructors weed out the crap and introduce the good. Get lessons and learn how to ski properly. It's not money wasted; it's well spent and you'll progress and enjoy your time on the slopes a lot more.
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Well, @Taurig, we've pretty quickly established the limits of your patience.
Presuming this applies to all aspects of your life, I guess skiing wasn't for you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Taurig wrote: |
@glasgowcyclops: really appreciate the offer, however I do have prior engagements this weekend. Another time perhaps.
Ok, I'm going to save everyone some time and just abandon this thread. I do question why a technique forum exists when the answer is consistently 'get a lesson', but hey, I'll look into them. |
you don't need to have a lesson every time.
What I did was a set of lessons at Glasgow ski club. then went to Xscape to practise that (since it is softer). Then a top up Lesson at Xscape after a couple of trips to iron out the mistakes.
Then ski'd a lot in Scotland then Went on the EOSB and got a 3 session Lesson on really steep stuff from one of the Snowheads instructors.
Now a lot better and comfy on Anything.
You wouldn't teach yourself to drive. Sometimes you wouldn't ant to pay for all the driving tuition. But likewise you would not want a friend to teach you to drive. you would not learn properly.
If you become a member at Snowfactor, you get a few hours for free. Then you also get discounts of lessons and slope time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Taurig, I was a truly awful skier and lessons transfored me into a poor skier. The difference in enjoyment and confidence was phenomenal. I alsovended up really enjoying the lessons.
The secret is to find a great instructor.
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I was a truly awful skier and lessons transfored me into a poor skier
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you're not the only one, Frosty the Snowman.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Taurig, I admire your efforts to 'self teach'. The thing is, asking for help on the Internet is just a less effective form of lesson. If it's cool to get hints and tips from us lot, you may as well get specific advice from an Instructor, or better, Coach.
However, assuming that you are not one for drills and specific exercises, hooking up with a Coach will give you some one who can guide you forwards.
Broadly speaking Dave of the Marmottes probably has it on the money. A key step is to develop your internal feedback skills so that you know what's going on. Only then can you make appropriate adjustments to stay balanced against your ski's. Working with a good Instructor or Coach will speed this process.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Errr, I think he may have gone
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Poster: A snowHead
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@andy1234, I think he is still discussing low profile helmets on another thread somewhere.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have some admiration for someone that thinks they can teach themselves to ski. However, I have been taken out by more than a few unguided missiles who had lost control and crashed into me and having seen several less than competent individuals attempt to negotiate the indoor ski slopes at break neck speed as well having seen the saga of our greatest proponent of the teach yourself method who finally saw the light, I now am a firm believer that some formative lessons are necessary for some control I must admit I am quite fearful for this posters well being and those around him when I read.
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When I read that you cannot teach yourself to ski, the uninformed idiot in me just asks 'why?', and is more determined not to take lessons
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NB. Of course the above is also good evidence as to why being taught English grammar at school is also a good thing 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sat 8-11-14 16:11; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you're still reading@Taurig, go to Braehead fridge and have 2-3 one hour lessons and then you'll be better equipped to tackle the snow, if you're a DH mountainbiker you must have big cahoonas, skiing needs this but also technique in abundance. Yes, you can force it and learn on the job but you'll get there quicker (and cheaper) and enjoy it more if you spend a few quid early on. Good luck!@Taurig,
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Exactly what Markymark29 said. While the assertion that you can't learn to ski by yourself is a logical fallacy (after all, people were skiing long, long before professional ski instructors were invented), if you don't take some shortcuts, you will definitely be slow in your progress. You'll also need to be luckier than most along the way to not hurt yourself (or someone else) as you slowly discover firsthand, the same stuff that a lot of folk will quickly get secondhand through their lessons. I see climbers who ski and skiers who climb, and the climbers who ski are generally a bit older, as they took longer to get there. I'd argue though that the self-learning skier amassing the same technique over say 100 days that the taught skier learned in say 30 days, will probably end up a stronger, more competent, all-rounder. Days on snow do count, particularly off-piste, and in challenging conditions but since snowsports days are expensive, mathematics says that shortcuts through lessons may be a relative bargain.
| Taurig wrote: |
| I do question why a technique forum exists when the answer is consistently 'get a lesson' ... |
I think one of the reasons is that the background of most (but by no means all) snowheads is that they're Alpine holiday skiers who get to ski say one or two six day blocks a year, on relatively busy, very well prepared pistes in (usually) benign weather, at resorts that deliver access to great ski instructors which all makes it easy to learn. Your posts referencing petrol and daypasses read like you're intending to use the Scottish ski lifts so why not use some instruction at our ski centres this season. There'll definitely be something you can hook into, although it is more difficult to arrange than in the Alps. Once you're competent enough, if you want to get some extra time and experience off-piste and in 'variable' conditions, buy, beg, borrow, or steal some touring gear and save on the cost of lift passes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@moffatross,
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the assertion that you can't learn to ski by yourself
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- may be fallacious, and may not be logical, but it is not a logical fallacy.
[/pedant]
Sure, As you say, you can teach yourself. But it will be slow, painful and probably end up not very pretty. And not really skiing. Which, anyway, developed over more than one lifetime...
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| I'd argue though that the self-learning skier amassing the same technique over say 100 days that the taught skier learned in say 30 days, will probably end up a stronger, more competent, all-rounder. |
(I'm not an instructor). Totally disagree in most cases. And for most people, e.g. audience here, 100 days = 15 weeks holidays - which may equal their entire skiing career and if not a significant portion of it. But I think you were agreeing with that element anyway.
Problem was, OP tipped up, basically asked "my car keeps breaking down" and when suggested (more or less) that checking whether it had petrol in it, flounceoed off, knowing better than the rest.
FWIW, I'm mostly self taught...
... after 5-6 weeks of daily lessons as a bairn, about a week a year of race training until adulthood and then intermittent lessons thereafter to address limitations or recognised failings plus lots and lots and lots of skiing with skiers who really did know what they were doing.
Taurig didn't seem to want to listen... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've been thinking about this all day... down at the local MTB centre. The tiny children just starting on their bikes for the first or second time would certainly say that riding a bike is not intuitive.... and this is exactly the same stage that @Taurig, is in his skiing - so (sorry) I don't think his opening assertion is correct. Ditto @moffatross, about climbers who ski..
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I'd argue though that the self-learning skier amassing the same technique over say 100 days that the taught skier learned in say 30 days,
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In fact, I'd suggest that the 100 day self taught skier will simply have spent more time unhappy, frustrated, tired and just generally having a bad time. So save much of the bad time, have a few lessons to point the way.
That all said, I did once meet a very talented girl, who was a national level touring skater from Holland, (yes, they do skate touring) who picked up pretty much up to advanced technique and was happy on icy blacks (the run in question is quite testing) after 6 days on skis. Quite extraordinary.
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He did say he knew the fastest way was to take lessons, he just didn't want to. That's not a crime. If you don't mind not being great and enjoy the journey/challenge of being self taught, it's not impossible, just slower...I'm heavily taught (used to get free lessons). Several of my group did a few hours lessons on a dry slope as students and haven't had any formal tuition since. On normal holiday piste skiing I doubt you'd see much difference between us nowadays, we all ski together happily and similarly. The lessons only show if we do drill type skiing for some reason. As they are all braver than I am even on poor surfaces/steeps/off-piste where you might expect the lessons to show they are overall better than I am. I agree having some lessons now and again will make anyone a better skier, but some people can make it to average without them quite happily....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@a.j., but OP arrived asking for help. Didn't like answer... flounced off.
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| under a new name wrote: |
In fact, I'd suggest that the 100 day self taught skier will simply have spent more time unhappy, frustrated, tired and just generally having a bad time. |
Not if you are someone who enjoys the challenge and likes to go it alone against the odds. Then you've spent a hundred days having a whale of a time, falling in the snow and 'winning' everytime you master something new.
me yep, I'm a lessons person. But not everyone is.
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FAQ
I think this probably comes from my main hobby being downhill mountain biking, where until maybe 5 years ago there was no formal instruction; we just watched the pros in videos, talked to mates and better riders, and figured it out ourselves whilst having a lot of fun.
