 Poster: A snowHead
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My Andy has passed his ESF Etoile D'Or, and we're booking lessons for our next trip in February, when he'll be 12 years old. I've read the description of the next level up, called 'Competition', and it seems quite challenging to me! I think for someone who ski's once or twice per year for a week or two at most, it's probably not appropriate, and I'm currently debating whether to put him into another Gold lesson instead. This will be unpopular with him, since he'll be in the same group as his brother and sister (both two years younger than him), but it seems...safer. To me at least.
Does anyone out there have experience of ESF "Competition" level for their kids?
-simon
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Why does he still need lessons?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Honestly, mostly so that the wife and I can ski by ourselves in the morning 
But also because he wants to improve his skiing, he enjoys skiing with other children (other than his siblings I mean!) and it's nice to get him into a sociable group...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Everyone needs lessons, most just don't admit it
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Being more constructive than my last post (sorry!) there are other options for advanced young skiers other than the competition class. Many resorts / ski-schools offer freestyle, off-piste or "all mountain" (freestyle, off-piste, bumps, racing) for kids at this level.
If ESF don't offer it at your destination, have a look at other ski-schools (e.g. Evo2 / ESI).
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Szymon, From watching Competition groups and knowing the instructors who teach them, the rest of the kids will just be there on holiday too, they are still a long way below the standard of a race club.
In February there should be enough kids that a resort can run multiple groups.
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stevomcd, the ESF are about the only school in Chamrousse I believe -- it's too small a resort to support multiple schools. I did ask about other types of lesson but they don't do them here...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Szymon wrote: |
| stevomcd, the ESF are about the only school in Chamrousse I believe -- it's too small a resort to support multiple schools. I did ask about other types of lesson but they don't do them here... |
For competition level you normally need to have the Fleche de Bronze, they won't take your son with Etoile d'Or; he's not up to the level. They must have other classes that are suitable for his level.
Note that the slalom courses at Chamrousse for Fleche and Vermeil are challenging. I would enter your son for the Fleche during the week you are there to see his level, if he posts a good time at Chamrousse (assuming they use the full course which is twice the length of most of the Fleche courses) he'll be good for anywhere in the French Alps.
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My daughter has had a week in competition class, following on from doing gold the previous holiday. She enjoyed it-it's not just race training she did bumps, off piste etc and the water slide at les arcs! You then get a chance to do the fleche race at the end and you get another award book with levels from flechette upwards.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Competition class is safe and gold level is the correct level to enter it (he's a year older too) Honestly he'll love it!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Saint wrote: |
| Competition class is safe and gold level is the correct level to enter it (he's a year older too) Honestly he'll love it! |
| Quote: |
Class 4 - Competition**
Entraînement au slalom et au slalom géant ! Le passage des tests « Flèche et Chamois » est inclus dans le stage. Niveau Flèche de bronze minimum. |
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Davidof: Acceptance level depends on the individual ski school if the ski school concerned runs gold star it's fine. There are different levels of competition class 'cos it's popular. There is no class between gold and competition in most schools and it is not all about gates.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Saint wrote: |
| Davidof: Acceptance level depends on the individual ski school if the ski school concerned runs gold star it's fine. There are different levels of competition class 'cos it's popular. There is no class between gold and competition in most schools and it is not all about gates. |
Yes, thanks, we are talking about Chamrousse are we not?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dunno, it's not mentioned in the headline post. But generally Gold Star cool.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Just looked up Chamrousse website it is crap! Competition class fine it is what Gold prepares the kids for! Many kids fail Gold because their instructors realise they won't be ready for Competition the next year. Get Andy in there!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Agree withrjs, When my son did it aged 10 or 11, they did a couple of half days of gate training for the fleche but mostly piste skiing and gentle off piste. Most of the kids were French teen holiday skiers. The level was not high - my son really wasn't at all challenged, but then he was a fair bit past etoile d'or.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Szymon, our Ben went from Gold to competition and enjoyed it very much. He didn't get his Flèche (and was gutted). He had a really good time and ether were a couple of other English kids - but it was mostly lots of skiing. It really wasn't that dangerous, a bit of speed a few bumps, some in the trees.
He'd have had a compete fit if we'd made him repeat Gold- especially with his younger brother (who has also now passed his Gold star) this would be like the worst torture I could think of imposing on any of my children, frankly I'm horrified you suggested it..
Answer - yes. Unless child really wants to repeat Gold (which is possible but almost certainly a sign of something being not quite right, but you have guessed he won't want this so I can't even see why I have mentioned this ). Or tele, really...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Both my girls go in competition class with the ESF and they are under 12 and have been at this level since they were 8 , they love it . They go all over the place learning bumps , off piste , jumping as well as race training , much more exciting than being out with Dad , sign Andy up you won't regret it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Both my girls go in competition class with the ESF and they are under 12 and have been at this level since they were 8 , they love it . They go all over the place learning bumps , off piste , jumping as well as race training , much more exciting than being out with Dad , sign Andy up you won't regret it
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Our local ESF has 'evasion' between Gold and Competition. Essentially this is similar stuff to competition, but only for the normal lesson times. Competition at ours is a 4.5hr lesson which is pretty intensive.
We had a similar debate when our son got his gold star, but decided to go with private tuition instead - clearly you win and lose on this option. Its expensive, and you lose the sociability. However, you gain a huge amount of skiing - like for like my son skis 2-3x as much in a private lesson as a group lesson (in 2.5hrs he skis at least 4500 vertical metres). Is there any scope to team up with any others for a private mini-group?
Whatever you do, its still possible for the kids to enter the races which is good experience.
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| Saint wrote: |
| Dunno, it's not mentioned in the headline post. But generally Gold Star cool. |
It is mentioned in the thread; it seemed relevant to me. For example last winter and the winter before Chamrousse ESF wanted Fleche d'Argent for their competition classes (I spoke to them) but they say both Fleche d'Argent and Fleche de Bronze on the website. Worth checking with them for 2015.
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I have to say I was tempted to speak to them tomorrow seems daft to me' cos how do you get the Flèche without training? Or is this a secretary being daft? With most, it is Gold then Competition seems daft otherwise?!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Folks, many thanks for all the replies. I had the travel agent get in touch with the resort and they say that competition will be fine for him; so with all the encouragement from here we have signed Andy up for that. I'm sure he'll love it 
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one thing to consider is that the competition class will typically be in French as so few "international" students. My daughter did hers at around the same age and her skiing came on loads but she was a bit lonely in the class..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, he's just started learning French, it will be good for him! The instructor should speak English at least (that's been our experience at Chamrousse so far -- the vast majority do. If he doesn't like it he can always go "down" to gold level
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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should be fine but i just mention it as it was something i hadnt considered when we booked her in...
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No, I do appreciate the thought, definitely something to consider.
We're all having Skiing withdrawal symptoms, last time we went was two weeks at Christmas and New Years, only been to Hemel twice since then (and that doesn't count, it's like drinking coffee to combat a heroin addiction!), February seems so far away...
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You know it makes sense.
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Szymon, I'd say methadone for heroin but possibly you are right...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Steward, that's exactly what I did
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hrm, you've worried me with the hand guards. But I guess we'll be able to buy anything he needs there...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Szymon wrote: |
| Hrm, you've worried me with the hand guards. |
As it his first time will probably get away without them. just tell him to 'man up' if he complains
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stewart woodward, Resorts may do things differently, they could just use stubbies for the Chamoix.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
The instructor should speak English at least (that's been our experience at Chamrousse so far -- the vast majority do.
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Wow, things must have changed at Chamrousse in the last few years...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Red Dave wrote: |
| Quote: |
The instructor should speak English at least (that's been our experience at Chamrousse so far -- the vast majority do.
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Wow, things must have changed at Chamrousse in the last few years... |
Well maybe we've just been lucky, but even the ones we met that don't claim to speak English seem to have enough to communicate what's important! We've only been going there since we started skiing in 2012 though...
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Szymon, What does Andy think?
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John -- well, he definitely *doesn't* want to go "down" to do the Gold again with his brother and sister , and he does want to go skiing again. I think it's us parents worrying too much, probably about nothing really. It's just that kids have no fear!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rjs,
| Quote: |
stewart woodward, Resorts may do things differently, they could just use stubbies for the Chamoix.
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Really? Do any resorts do this? I thought the purpose of the Chamois was that it was a comparable race of similar gates, similar drop against the registered opener's reference time. If you start putting stubbies in then its a different race altogether.
That said I really really wouldn't worry about hand/shin guards. In my experience, until the kids are good, they slow them down. My 7-yr old was the fastest (of his age!) in our valley for the whole season in Chamois and never touched a gate.
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snowdave, Yes, the resort that I mostly ski in uses stubbies for the Chamoix. The entry is mostly smaller kids so it makes sense not to use full size gates.
The times are measured against an opener through that particular course, it doesn't make it invalid to use different gates. The FFS younger age group slaloms that I have seen also use stubbies and they are recommended for U14s in GBR races.
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FAQ
There will probably be lots of 'Club ESF' kids in there who will be more than willing to practice their English skills & show him how good they are 