 Poster: A snowHead
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Just come back from a couple of hours at Chillfactore and got marks on my heels where the boot / socks have rubbed. The socks have like 'padding' on them where pressure points are, it happened last year too any thoughts / advice? Better socks?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 21-12-14 16:37; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Levi215, What make of socks are they? Are your boots maybe a bit too big?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Levi215, have you had your boots fitted or are they off the shelf, as it were? how big are your feet?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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holidayloverxx, Fitted, 10.5 wide, tried maybe 10 pairs and these were the only ones comfortable across the top of the foot.
They're Saloman's put in the oven with custom insoles.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Levi215, hmm can't help.hopefully someone else will be along soon
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The web is suggesting inserts / custom insoles are the answer and it's due to the arch of the foot collapsing during turns. All sounds very familiar but i've got insoles... strange :/ 
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Levi215, it suggests proper boot fitting by a proper boot fitter.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Also you can get a boor fitter to fit some pads to the liners if you have a lower volume ankle. I always get blisters with my touring boots and in the past with my downhill boots but not a hint of them since I switched to custom foam liners.
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Scarpa, any recommendations t'up t'north?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Levi215, There have been plenty of recommendations for Rivington Alpine.
If you don't want to go that far you could try here. Disclaimer, the owner is a friend and I haven't had any work done there myself.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks rjs, i might give them a go even if just for a chat, saw Adlington and my eyes lit up, on the way back from the Airport alas there seems to be two Adlingtons! 
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Wear an extra very thin pair of socks next to your skin.
Pop Socks (the ones make of stockings material) work well.
They will make no difference to the fit of your boot but all the rubbing will be between the 2 lays of socks and you will be blister free.
It is a serious hikers and Army trick for blister avoidance....works 100% in my experience.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks rungsp, i'll give that a try on my next Chillfactore trip see if it helps, i thought it was the socks and the material but the web and experience here suggests otherwise... still a lot to learn (particularly as i just tightened the boots more to try and stop it!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Levi215, if you can't face the embarrassment of pop socks you could try 1000 mile socks. Google them. Same principle.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Levi215, don't shell out £20 for those. That is a basic quick fix and if it's what you need the boot guys at S&R at Chill will cut you those out from fitting foam for free or not much.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sarah, i'll pop in when i'm next over i got the boots from there so may have some 'leverage' 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Levi215, if you got the boots from them then definitely, definitely go back. They will help you out and they will be quiet now. There's a guy in there called Adam who's fairly switched on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Levi215, AFAIK S&R have a 'fit guarantee' so will do any remedial work foc. The fact that you tried on ten pairs worrries me as a decent boot fitter will only be offering you 1/2 boots to try, ie the ones that are right for your foot. It's likely that you've bought/been sold a boot based on the forefoot volume/width meaning that the shell is likely to be too long. Do a shell check & if it's over 20mm you need new boots!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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sounds like they are a Head Edge 10.5 so couple of years old now? it is a very high volume shell, and the liner has lots of padding in it, if the boot has too much volume around the heel and the padding has packed down then this could happen easily, the other thing that it could be is lack of flexibility at the ankle joint caused by a tight calf muscle or some other biomechanical problem this will cause your heel to lift a little (even if the boot is a good fit) unless it is pre lifted to open the ankle joint and give you back some range of motion there
so even if the boot is the right length there might be too much volume generally or it could be a quick fix with padding or a heel lift, go see they guys where you got them, if they can't/don't help then best place in the north is Rivington Alpine as has been mentioned before
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spyderjon, how would one do that? The Shell 'seems' ok to my inexperienced foot, they're a 28 which according to the web (unsure on accuracy http://www.skibootsizingcharts.com/ ) UK size 9? I generally buy 10-11's in shoes so i'd be surprised if the Shell is too big (if the stats are right)
CEM, they're Salomon X-Pro 100's
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| Levi215 wrote: |
spyderjon, how would one do that? The Shell 'seems' ok to my inexperienced foot, they're a 28 which according to the web (unsure on accuracy http://www.skibootsizingcharts.com/ ) UK size 9? I generally buy 10-11's in shoes so i'd be surprised if the Shell is too big (if the stats are right)
CEM, they're Salomon X-Pro 100's |
Shoe sizes are just a reference point, they vary significantly in all three dimensions so transferring between different footwear types only gives you a starting point of where to look not a direct relationship. The shell check: should have been done when fitted, remove liner put foot in boot so you're lightly touching the toe end weight-bearing. Get a mate with a torch to look down inside the back of the boot. The gap between the back of your heel and the shell should ideally be under 20mm (though there are other factors which may change this in some cases) . Note even this is just a general guideline boots vary in width and depth as well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon, anarchicsaltire, 20mm? It looks more like 35-40 (rough measurement). Toe at the end of the boot distance between my heal and the back of the boot...
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| Levi215 wrote: |
| spyderjon, anarchicsaltire, 20mm? It looks more like 35-40 (rough measurement). Toe at the end of the boot distance between my heal and the back of the boot... |
The boots are waaay too big & there's nothing you can do to rectify that. Go back & complain to the manager & demand new/correctly fitted boots under their fit guarantee. You probably need to come down two shell sizes but that then means that the internal shape/clog has to match your foot (or as best as possible but the boot shape can always be tweaked). The crap shops just put you in a large shell so they 'feel like slippers' & as soon as the liner packs out a bit they'll be like wellies!
I'm a UK 9/EU 44 & my alpine boots are a 26 shell with about 10/11mm shell gap which is a pretty snug performance fit.
Unfortunately you've learnt the hard way that the golden rule about buying boots is to stay away from the big chains & seek a specialist (by recommendation) like Rivington Alpine or Solutions4Feet.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, so the liner should be less than 1cm each end of the boot? the liner is super snug, no wiggle room at all front or back small liner in a big shell and two sizes down from golf shoes? 10.5 - 8.5 if way too big 8??
Something doesn't seem to be adding up here (not doubting your knowledge though, more questioning myself)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Levi215, most peoples street shoes are too big. Stand bare foot against the skirting & measure the length of your feet in mm. 270mm/27cm = a 27 mondo size boot but with a custom footbed supporting any collapse/spread of your foot it's easily possible to size down. My feet measure 27cm but I'm a nice snug fit in a 26 shell. Note that, like street shoes, there are variances in the sizes between boot manufacturers so some might size a little large & some a little small - which, amongst many other things, is were the knowledge/experience of the fitter comes in. So my Atomic boots are a 26 but my Dynafits (which size small) are 27's but the fit between the two is very similar.
And there is no such thing as a half size in ski boots - the shells/liners of say a 26 & a 26.5 shell are the same it's just that the crappy factory footbed in the 26.5 is usually thinner to give a bit more volume in the boot but most people bin them anyway & use a custom liner to stabilise their foot.
And the online/manufacturers boot sizing charts are also very generous so shouldn't be relied upon either.
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spyderjon, 272 :/
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You know it makes sense.
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Levi215, it's not just length though. My street shoes are bigger than they should be for the length of my feet, because I have a hammer toe and bunions which need room. When I got fitted ski boots the fitter (CEM) was able to distort the shell, with heat, to give me extra room just where I needed it - and only where I needed it. It's also a case of choosing a suitable shell for your foot shape too (e.g. narrow heels). And very much as an afterthought for most holiday skiers, to whom comfort is going to be paramount, a suitable boot for your level of skill and the type of skiing you do.
It's a bit of an art!
FWIW last time I got rubbed ankles - mostly when I had to "skate" on the flat, when it got quite sore - it was because the liners in my old boot had packed out and the boots were slopping around too much.
Skiing with sore feet sucks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, tell me about it, i'll give rivington a go. not sure how i can check the liner in the shell but the liner appears to be a good size.. saying that i bet i can raise my heel a good few cm when they're done up.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 1-09-14 15:21; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Compression socks are meant to help a fair bit too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Levi215, You don't need to check the liners in the shell, the shell check that you have done is the one that matters, the boots are too big.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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with a foot of 272mm in that salomon boot you would most likely fit into a 26.5 some people cannot tolerate a performance fit but even if you can't they shouldn't be a 28!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well thanks for the feedback, sounds like i need to discuss with Snow and Rock exactly what has gone on and what i've paid out for, even though i'm outside of the warranty period or comfort guarantees, anyone had any experiences smilier with a positive outcome or is it another X hundred quid down the drain?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Levi215, its discussed a lot on this and other forums, the likes of Snow and Brigham cater to the masses who ski perhaps one week a year or less and their comfort fit guarantee is that a comfort fit. There are certainly guys and gals in those chains who can fit a boot but their aim is, and I am happy to be corrected, is to sell a boot. As opposed to some of the recommended boot fitters who will only sell a boot if it is a proper fit. I had a pair of boots, originally fitted 'ahem' by a major retailer, who then proceeded when I said they didn't feel great in selling me custom footbeds. I eventually found snowheads and saw the light. I went from a 28.5 shell to a a 26.5 shell and this whilst a tight fit was by no means as tight as I even now think I could have gone. I went from a couple of planks flapping about in wellies to a an interface between my legs, feet and the skis.
Dont get me wrong, my current boots are snug and also comfortable, and the original boots were great for the first 2 weeks but after that was a struggle to get a decent feel for what and how the skis were moving.
Were my 'expertly' fitted boots cheap, absolutely not, but they weren't a hell of a lot more expensive that the originals, plus the visits to the store and the custom footbeds and the are currently sitting in the 'ski loft' gathering mice. (Actually I don't think we currently have any mice, but you get the idea).
If you really have that much 'shell space' I'd guess they have given you a shell that is too big as has been mentioned, will they be willing to change it...... That's another question but I'd be looking to probably go down a size but as mentioned it's not just about the length its about the volume and overall fit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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not 100% of the blame can be put at the door of the shop/fitter (although a lot of it can be) the boot manufacturers are making boots bigger and bigger every time they change a mould purely so that the "feel " more comfortable out the box but the sizing is so false it is unbelievable go back 15-20 years and a foot which measured 26.5 when put into a 26.5 boot shell had around 15mm of space, fantastic fit for the vast majority of skiers BUT it felt too tight out the box and people would then look at a different brand to find one which was a bit more comfortable, some brands got wise to this and started adding 2-3mm onto the internal length, it has not got silly with someone measuring 26.5 now having anything form 20mm to 35mm in the boot of the same size Go figure! the next problem is the customer, everyone wants comfort and if the boot feels a bit tight when you put it on you ask for a bigger size, it feels nicer and off you trot, 3 weeks skiing later (or less) and it feels too big, the heel is slipping and your foot sliding around all over the place
i had a customer only yesterday who insited on a bigger boot , because one foot was a little bigger than the other and he wanted comfort, nothing i could do was going to convince him otherwise,(he wouldn't even try the smaller one on so he will never know that it was right) what i should have done was sack him as a customer, but he insisted on buying the boot, NO FIT GUARANTEE simple
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No doubt CEM, if i remember correctly we did have that discussion, in order to get the width across the top of the foot and i believe it was said that there would be little / no effect on my skiing / me, my own fault? possibly... i'm certainly out of the guarantee period and it doesn't cover you for taking them on the slopes only in a fridge / before you actually use them. I get why, but how can you know they fit?
If anything i'm more annoyed at myself for believing that the custom fit stuff was actually that...
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Levi215, When you put boots on your toes will be cramped into the end until you buckle them up and assume a flexed skiing position. Once you have had really well fitting boots you know the feeling. On my first time the guy took all sorts of measurements, standing, bending, looked at arch etc, then came back with a single pair and said "These will fit"  He was spot on. The second was a leading world cup race fitter, he again looked at my feet, said how well suited my previous boots were and then came back with two models with very similar volumes and lasts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Levi215 wrote: |
| I get why, but how can you know they fit? |
I spend a lot of time in ski boots and I find it difficult to assess in a shop how boots will feel on the hill. I think the best advice in terms of knowing how they will feel is to put your trust in a good boot fitter and let them decide what the best boot for you is, and then work from there.
How do you know who is a good bootfitter and who isn't? That's a tough question, but personal experience and independent advice from places such as snowHeads is a good place to start looking. I would have alarm bells ringing in my mind if a bootfitter let me try on 10 pairs of boots. Last three pairs of boots I've bought I've been measured, answered questions about my skiing and then been handed a pair of boots. No choice, but a pair of boots which were right for me.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| would have alarm bells ringing in my mind if a bootfitter let me try on 10 pairs of boots. Last three pairs of boots I've bought I've been measured, answered questions about my skiing and then been handed a pair of boots. No choice, but a pair of boots which were right for me. |
I think that's experience though Rob, i know i have 'bad feet' for Shoes, hence why i have a variety of golf shoes in all sorts of sizes from 9 extra wide to 10.5 normal. So my experience is in doing exactly that with 'special fit' footwear. I agree with the sentiment, although not everyone in will research what boots they need and surly half of the UK are skiing in boots that won't work for them?
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