 Poster: A snowHead
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Just a heads up that the Down Skis pre-season sale will start on the 15th; a great chance to get some rad skis at pretty unbeatable prices! A few people on here bought some at the same time last season, and most reports seem pretty good!
Website: http://www.downskis.com
Not all of their new line-up has been anounced yet (find their Facebook and Instagram to see the new models), but what has looks great! I think I'll treat myself to a pair of the new CD107s, true 183 and 1850grams:
Just for the record I am in no way involved or affiliated with Down; I just like their shapes, build quality, prices, general ethos, the fact that the owners of the company are totally happy to have a long conversation with you about which ski would suit you best (and wax lyrical about technical aspects of ski design on TGR), and that when I had a problem with some skis they instantly replaced them with another pair of whichever model I wanted. A company I'm happy to support!
Edit: Pre-sale now live, and new website up at: http://www.downskis.com
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 15-07-14 11:30; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK so the Snowhead registration asks about "commercially minded". Do I want to sell more skis? YES. Do I want to answer your questions directly and without filter? YES. The admins can delete my account but I feel the more we can connect with our customers the better for the end user...AKA..skiers! Please feel free to use this thread for any questions. We will normally answer in 48 hours. Here to help and thanks Matt for the thread. All the best- Geo, Founder, DOWN FREE Sarl (CH)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Geo your site is pretty difficult to read.
Writing your side cut info in none expandable black renders the info impossible to read on an ipad and what's this mean
"RADIUS Progressive, 20m in the tip, 25m under foot and 30m in the tail, 25m average"
I hope you make your skis with a little more precision or are they really container ships?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Super Steezy, simply means the ski doesn't have a single continuous sidecut radius, sections are straighter/more curved to release/engage into a turn better. You might also consider that actually giving the numbers is more precise than simply stating 'dual radius sidecut' (or whatever the term is) like some other brands...
Seems like you were able to read the info after all though 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 13-07-14 22:59; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Different info...sidecut info still visually obscure and this radius info is...well just bolloxs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Super Steezy wrote: |
Geo your site is pretty difficult to read.
Writing your side cut info in none expandable black renders the info impossible to read on an ipad and what's this mean
"RADIUS Progressive, 20m in the tip, 25m under foot and 30m in the tail, 25m average"
I hope you make your skis with a little more precision or are they really container ships? |
AFAIK you are squinting at last year's info anyway - new skis etc are up on the 15th July. Last years pricing was pretty exceptional for this kind of gear. I m not fully up to the latest trendiest thinking but I gather that "5 point" sidecut is the latest ne plus ultra, hence the different radii numbers.
Hopefully someone will be along shortly to explain what that all means.
In the interim, if you are interested in light, wide off piste skis, the Down pre-sale is a great place to start!
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I won't go into great detail on variable or progressive sidecut radii, but it does make a difference. Take the Showdown 115, 41m average, 29 in the tip, 55 underfoot, 35 in the tail. The reality is alittle more complex, involving an ellipse in the tail section. I addition, parts on the tip and tail are ccompletely straight, parallel to the ski center line. The end product is a ski that is ridiculouslystable while running bases flat or low edge angles, yet engages into a turn easily once you get up on edge.
Fiddling with the various sidecut numbers is no magic bullet, but it really allows the designers (me in this case) to make skis that behave as they desire. Just an other degree of freedom.
Simen
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Hi Simen,
I actually already pm'd Geo but maybe you are the man to ask, looking some honest, detailed information on the new line-up. Specifically the new 2 and 3... (or whatever they are called now) anything online?
Matt
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi Matt.
More info will be available on the 15th when the new site launches.
basically: Countdown 114 for allround use, but the more you're looking to ski at higher speeds and deeper snow, the more you'll want to look at the Showdown 115.
both skis have been reviewed at blistergearreview.com, though in different years/models.
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Still no shorter versions of your big skis 
I'd have got a CD2 years ago if it weren't for the fact they're 190cm. Its a real shame, especailly given that your stuff is nicely put together and even your full prices are cheaper than some companies' sale prices.
(also, did you guys put your darkest topsheet on your lightest skis? why is everyone doing that now?)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Serriadh...so people can find their skis?....and if anyone has some quantifiable data on snow "stickyness" on dark vs. light please send over....also would like to compare with our structured topsheets vs. gloss.
PS: Thanks again for the support everyone. Really appreciated.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Looks cool. The light 102's are very tempting.
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| DOWN wrote: |
| Serriadh...so people can find their skis? |
A nice bright patch at the tip and tail (and if you really wanted, underfoot) would do that though, right? Then all the rest can be white, or whatever. Even in a single colour block, greens and reds will be pretty contrasty against snow, and yet still have a nice high albedo. compared to dark greys, blues or pretty carbon.
| DOWN wrote: |
| ....and if anyone has some quantifiable data on snow "stickyness" on dark vs. light please send over |
I'm going to be optimistic here and say that no-one has any actual quantifiable data, because if there was I'd like to think that there wouldn't be a rash of dark coloured touring skis!
Only the work of a few hours to test it yourself once the weather improves though, right?
But to add a bit of anecdata, these ones are illustrative:
(edit: apparently wildsnow don't like hotlinking. Original article source here: http://www.wildsnow.com/9494/black-diamond-carbon-megawatt-backcountry-ski-review/ and direct link below)
http://www.wildsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/snowstick-525x336.jpg
| DOWN wrote: |
| ....also would like to compare with our structured topsheets vs. gloss. |
Haven't DPS been using textured topsheets on some models (RPC?) recently? I vaguely recall that some people had positive things to say, but I can't find anything right now.
Different materials are probably the most effective. My old K2 Backlashes have a top sheet made from some low grade of ptex, and though snow and ice does still build up its easier to clear off than from the usual nylon topsheets on other skis. Too bad the material seems to be buttery soft, though.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 16-07-14 20:09; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Urrm, people worry about the colour of their skis in relation to snow sticking? That's actually a thing!? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Urrm, people worry about the colour of their skis in relation to snow sticking? That's actually a thing!?
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Yup, hear that a lot, though I think there is just a temperature sweet spot where it happens (the dark is warm enough but the light isn't), which i suppose would make sense from a reflection/absorbtion point of view, some days i notice things sticking, some days not at all. Not tied it down to colour though...
Also K2 did a bit on this with "snowphobic" top sheets which, - even without the wax it came with - were supposed to shed snow. Makes good sense too, doesnt matter how heavy your skis are when there is 2 kg of frozen water on them...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| meh wrote: |
| Urrm, people worry about the colour of their skis in relation to snow sticking? That's actually a thing!? |
Why would you be willing to pay a premium for some super lightweight touring skis with every last possible gram shaved off, and then happily accept the weight buildup of snow and ice?
Maybe all you guys only ever tour on really cold or hard snow, I dunno.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I generally just squirt a bit of Colltex anti-balling spray on the topsheet and skins to stop the snow/ice sticking. I've heard various other people use Rain-x, cooking oil, ski wax, teflon dry lubricant etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I once read that in the olden days racers would wax the top sheet. I once put some butter off my sandwich on my top sheet on a tour because I had a lot of build up, can't say it worked. That hydrophobic spray might work though. That photo by Serriadh, is very interesting, can't really understand the physics though as the darker areas must be warmer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jbob wrote: |
| That photo by Serriadh, is very interesting, can't really understand the physics though as the darker areas must be warmer. |
The problem often occurs when a ski (or apart of a ski) is warm and then cools down again. I assume the dark colour attracts enough heat to melt the snow but not the lighter coloured part of the ski. The dark area melts the snow which then freezes. The lighter area stays dry and so nothing sticks.
The problem can also occur when you take touring skis out of a warm car and straight into the snow - at first the heat from the skis/skins melts the snow which ultimately refreezes once the skis/skins lose their heat.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here's a guess
Warm surface, cold air and snow around it, snow in contact this the surface melts, loosing it's insulating air pockets (or theres a latent heat trick at play, not sure), then is cooled from above to re-freeze as sticky (surface-tension type sticky) ice... bit like why so get ice on your boots (or in the holes for tech bindings) when its a bit warmer...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| jbob wrote: |
| I once read that in the olden days racers would wax the top sheet. I once put some butter off my sandwich on my top sheet on a tour because I had a lot of build up, can't say it worked. That hydrophobic spray might work though. |
People still do... plenty of google hits for snow sticking to topsheets and ways people have tried to resolve the issue.
| Quote: |
| That photo by Serriadh, is very interesting, can't really understand the physics though as the darker areas must be warmer. |
Albedo, I reckon. (also, link to the other pic is up now, if you didn't see it the first time round). There's very little ambient heat at the snow surface, but on a nice hot sunny day those dark patches presumably get warm enough to start sintering snow grains together. I suspect It'll be more obvious after a chairlift ride or a lunchbreak, when the skis aren't in good thermal contact with the snow and are better able to warm up.
| DOWN wrote: |
| Super good conversation...and yes we are thinking about that. We are actually working on getting a "quantifiable" claim on the textures topsheet+treatment...but we don't have those big CHFs yet . |
Surely the important thing about the textures is that they look good? The teaser photos of the Showdown suggest you don't have any problem there 
I don't have a good answer for that one
A quick peek at youtube for skimo videos shows that a fair number of competition skis have glossy black topsheets, but not a whole lot of snow and ice adherence. I'd guess that they get chemical assistance for that, but I don't know any skimo athletes so I could easily be wrong.
Eh, I guess the easiest thing to do is to wait til next spring, and see what the buyers have to say. My touring skis have a good few years left in them yet, so I'm in no rush. Still, shame you didn't make a shorter CD114 or SD115...
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Textures do matter in this case, especially in wet conditions where the textures keep the water from wetting the surface significantly and sticking to it by surface tension, google "lotus effect" for some examples. There may also be some validity for textures in drier, windblown sticky snow, where the texture may cause less wind resistance through the creation of micro-turbulence (like the dimples in a golf ball) and through the uneven surface reducing friction through air pockets under the sticking snow. I only have aanecdotal evidence in these cases (the only two skis without significant snow buildup in a liftline were last year'scCountdown 2's), but we'd like to do some experiments on this at some point in the future.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I know someone big into skimo, I'll try and get a view re top sheet treatment. I know they use trab skis which are white, black and orange.
Completely off topic, I once had a light green cap with a red badge. I left it on the grass one summers day in the Welsh hills, and in about ten minutes the badge and only the badge was covered in flies. I'm always careful now about the colour of my clothes especially for Scotland.
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| downskis wrote: |
| Textures do matter in this case, especially in wet conditions where the textures keep the water from wetting the surface significantly and sticking to it by surface tension, google "lotus effect" for some examples. |
Not heard of the lotus effect before, or known that superhydrophobicity was a thing. Interesting stuff!
| jbob wrote: |
| Completely off topic, I once had a light green cap with a red badge. I left it on the grass one summers day in the Welsh hills, and in about ten minutes the badge and only the badge was covered in flies. I'm always careful now about the colour of my clothes especially for Scotland. |
Yellow is their favourite, but ultimately the little sods seem happy to eat you alive regardless of what colour your are
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A British skimo champion, a friend of a friend, says they use silicon spray on the top sheet and on the bindings. K2 are bringing out a product. I guess this is the same stuff that is sold for anti icing the skins. Warning, if you get it on the base the skins won't stick.
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I really don't need new skis but which ones for Japan? Got some WD Directors which I love and would be their replacement.
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You know it makes sense.
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Rishie, for your stats, the Showdown 115 - & they're very useable in yurp too. Call in some time & have a look at my CDC3's (same ski).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How much more work is the SD115 compared to a 186 Lhasa if anyone has experience of both? I'm used to that sort of shape but that looks like a significant additional 4cms that will be hard work for my incompetent desk flying ass in tight situations. I need to replace the Lhasas and it is proving a tougher decision than I was hoping it would be.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| gorilla wrote: |
| How much more work is the SD115 compared to a 186 Lhasa if anyone has experience of both? I'm used to that sort of shape but that looks like a significant additional 4cms that will be hard work for my incompetent desk flying ass in tight situations. I need to replace the Lhasas and it is proving a tougher decision than I was hoping it would be. |
gorilla, The SD115's ski shorter than your Llasa's due to their rockered tail. And their rockered tail combined with their flat camber makes 'em easier to pivot than the Llasa (which is still an easy ski to pivot). Both of these features however make them less good on the firm stuff than the Llasa.
The Countdown 110 would be the Llasa competitor from the Down range but I prefer a longer radius than the 22m radius of the C110.
The ski to get if you want a like for like replacement for your Llasas would be the 186cm Whitedot Ranger CarbonLite, which is what I've replaced my Llasa's with. I use the SD115's (or last years CDC3 in my case) as a pure powder ski as it's not as versatile as the Ranger.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| gorilla wrote: |
| How much more work is the SD115 compared to a 186 Lhasa if anyone has experience of both? I'm used to that sort of shape but that looks like a significant additional 4cms that will be hard work for my incompetent desk flying ass in tight situations. I need to replace the Lhasas and it is proving a tougher decision than I was hoping it would be. |
Given the full rocker it should still be super pivoty in tight places. I have the old CountDown 1, which even at 194 is easy to chuck around/shut down when you don't have much room.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, I though the Lhasa was quite a bit wider than the Ranger?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| spyderjon, I though the Lhasa was quite a bit wider than the Ranger? |
Llasa is 112mm underfoot v the 108mm of the Ranger. I skied them back to back & even with one of them on each foot & couldn't tell the difference! The SD115 with the tail rocker/flat camber skis very differently, more like a narrow Whitedot Redeemer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I keep looking rather jealously at the sale this year, after taking advantage last year to get a pair of the CDC6's. Genuinely excellent skis - and the team are lovely too. I was fortunate enough to be able to meet Gregor in the pub here in Geneva before buying anything for a chat and a look over a few skis, and got hand delivery once my pair were ready.
The couple of friends I reluctantly agreed to let ski them last winter loved them too!
For some reason I really fancy the new Throwdown 110's, even though I have absolutely no need for them, and no job at the minute to pay for them with, so I'm just following what everyone else s buying instead
Anyway, if anyone is wavering, this is a great little company with great skis - buy them!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It gets yet more difficult. Cheers all.
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gorilla, You live in london, just don't go out drinking for 4/5 nights and you've paid for them!
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| fixx wrote: |
I keep looking rather jealously at the sale this year, after taking advantage last year to get a pair of the CDC6's. Genuinely excellent skis - and the team are lovely too. I was fortunate enough to be able to meet Gregor in the pub here in Geneva before buying anything for a chat and a look over a few skis, and got hand delivery once my pair were ready.
The couple of friends I reluctantly agreed to let ski them last winter loved them too!
For some reason I really fancy the new Throwdown 110's, even though I have absolutely no need for them, and no job at the minute to pay for them with, so I'm just following what everyone else s buying instead
Anyway, if anyone is wavering, this is a great little company with great skis - buy them! |
I'm kindof in the same boat (I have a job, but it sucks, and need to save for a liftpass more than new skis). Got several interviews lined up though, so have to wait to see if one of them pays off before I can buy new toys.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
I'm kindof in the same boat (I have a job, but it sucks, and need to save for a liftpass more than new skis). Got several interviews lined up though, so have to wait to see if one of them pays off before I can buy new toys. |
Good luck! I need to start looking a little harder I think - plan is new boots and touring bindings for next season for my toys, so need to start saving for those. Ah yes, and the liftpass too!
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Thanks for the support guys..really appreciated. As noted here to help with questions daily.
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FAQ
