White Christmas in Europe for absolute beginners

A snowHead

After reading through this forum, it has become very obvious to me that you all know a lot more about ski holidays than my local travel agent!!

We are a family of 2 adults and 3 children (8, 12 & 14) who are completely new to skiing. We are hoping for a "White Christmas" in Europe this year instead of our usual hot and sunny Aussie Christmas!

I realise I may be looking for the impossible, but we would like the beautiful picture perfect alpine village, which will reliably have snow at Christmas time and has very gentle beginner slopes that are easy to access from the accommodation, good ski school, family friendly, nice atmosphere, good food etc etc.

I have done a lot of research on the internet and am getting so confused! We have already booked a week in the French alps with some other families at the end of January, so am hoping to go somewhere other than France. We are open to anywhere else and was considering Saas Fee, Wengen, Zell am See, Cortina d"Ampezzo or Madonna Di Campiglio to name a few.

Any comments or other suggestions would be much appreciated. We don't have a set budget in mind and want to make it really special as we are spending Christmas away from the rest of the family.

Thanks in advance for you help!!

A snowHead

Kylieaus, welcome to snowHeads.

The only way you can guarantee snow is to go for a resort with a glacier.......that said, you'd be unlucky not to get snow at Christmas. I've been to Saas Fee, Wengen and Zell am See of the resorts you listed and can recommend them all.

Wengen has the dramatic scenery of the Eiger and the Lauterbrunnen valley. The village is compact but some of the hotels are up/down the hill, so research location if you don't want a short steep walk.

Zell am See has the lake as it's scenic focal point. The ski area has several access points - Schuttdorf is probably the most beginner friendly, although if you are a beginner you won't get to ski back to the town for a few days as the home runs are quite steep. Accommodation is spread out so look at location and access to lifts.

Sass Fee is high, which is good for snow, but beware of altitude sickness. Most people are unaffected, but I've known a few to struggle at the top. I've not actually stayed in Saas Fee so can't comment on accommodation - I've always stayed in Saas Grund which has it's own little ski area and is a bus ride away from Saas Fee.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Kylieaus, Another welcome. snowHead

You might not be any less confused after reading advice here. wink

The thing is, there is no resort which has everything you are looking for - it's a matter of identifying your priorities. Christmas is very early and likely snow conditions won't be clear until shortly beforehand but because it's a busy time (though not as busy as New Year) you will probably want to book in advance.

The traditional "picture book" villages were built down in the valleys - nobody wanted to spend the winter up where there was likely to be snow on the ground for months on end. So the most obvious trade-off is between having a high probability of resort-level snow in a purpose-built resort and being in a very pretty village (such as Alpbach in Austria - one of the prettiest of all). Conditions can't be predicted - I have spent the last 12 Christmases in a fairly low resort in France and we have had some terrific Christmas conditions, a few fairly horrible, most OK. But regardless of conditions I have never wished I was at home in the UK and I've always been able to ski back to my apartment!

I would personally discount the glacier issue because if there is so little snow that people have to head to a glacier the ski areas up there are likely to be horribly busy.

There are some resorts which have low, pretty, villages, often with nursery slopes in the middle but which also have good beginner areas higher up on the mountain and that might be the best compromise for you. If there is little snow or poor conditions in the village you can head up the mountain. I can't suggest anywhere specific because I don't know many Austrian resorts but you will get some good suggestions, I'm sure.

Finally, remember that the quality of the ski school is very important for your first holiday. Do you live in Australia? If so I guess you can't have some lessons in a snow dome before you go otherwise that's a good idea

One final point - be a bit sceptical of claims that snow-making equipment "guarantees" skiing down to village level. They do extremely well with snow-grooming but if the weather is too mild the machines don't work.

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Another option for Zell is to stay at Kaprun nice little village has an indoor outdoor pool ( one of the outdoor pools last time I went was still filled from the glacier water Skullie

great in summer but not in winter ).

Oh and welcome Kylieaus, snowHead

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Kylieaus, I agree with speed098, another vote for Kaprun. It has a glacier (Kitzsteinhorn) and is also easily accessible to Zell on the same area lift pass, albeit by bus instead of a connecting lift. Kaprun has easier beginner runs and more clustered together. If and/or when you get a bit bored with that and fancy a bit more of a challenge you can pop over to Zell, which is a picturesque place, and therefore ideal for Christmas and après... The lake usually freezes over in the winter and is beautiful. Good luck and welcome to snowHead

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+1 for Zell am See, the village is really nice and with access to either zell or kaprun (via bus) and its glacier it makes for a really nice holiday.

There are a lot of nice easy nursery runs at the top of the cable car too and you can always get the lift back down if you don't fance the ski down.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Kylieaus,
What pam w, says makes a lot of sense.

I would not worry to much about glaciers, I have been skiing for thirty years or so averaging maybe three weeks a year and the only time I have ever had to rely on glaciers has been out of season when I have been going specifically for the glaciers. I have been several times to resorts with glaciers where the glacier has been inaccessible or seriously unpleasant all week because of inclement weather. If there is a serious lack of snow locally they have a reputation of getting very crowded indeed particularly in busy weeks like Xmas /new year. Bad weather has killed far more days skiing for me than lack of snow and high exposed ski areas are prone to bad weather, wherever you go I would make sure it has a decent beginner area below the tree line.

All that said xmas is early season and not everywhere will have decent snow some years, if I was spending a chunk of money I would want somewhere with a decent snow record.

FWIW last time I had to fly long distance to go skiing at xmas I chose Galtur in Austria which has a pretty decent snow record is fairly high up but does have tree lined slopes and an excellent very gentle beginners area. It is also uncrowded as nearby Ischgl draws the big crowds.

It does not meet all your criteria though, it is certainly family friendly with as far as I am aware a good ski school. It is an attractive village with the usual excellent standard Austrian accommodation. However the village is a short distance from the slopes, there is a regular bus service between the two however we used a rental car to get to the very convenient car park and used this form the airport as well. The other drawback is that although there is tree cover it is still a fairly high resort and the tree lining is not as dense as some and it is north facing, early season it can get very cold.

Further down the same valley is Kappl which is reasonably attractive though you need to be careful with your accommodation as the accommodation near the main lift is on the valley floor with a busy road and not particularly appealing. The skiing is great for beginners with a very good area up the mountain just next to the treeline and being south facing is a lot warmer than Ischgl. The best more appealing accommodation though you would have to get a bus for as although the piste goes virtually through the village to the valley floor it is not one for beginners or indeed nervous intermediates.

After all it is free

Kylieaus, my personal favorite is Wengen, the nursery slopes are in the center of the village and these days have snow cannon coverage which should give snow even if there is none actually lying in the village, however the village is fairly low and Christmas is early in the season, I'd still go there though, it is one of the most scenic locations in the alps, Switzerland tends to have good food, the only time I've eaten poor food was from a non Swiss run restaurant

Kylieaus, I second Pams advice. Having skied for many years over the Christmas holidays when my boys were growing up you really do need to identify your priorities.

Given what you have said so far I would be inclined to go for a pretty traditional Austrian resort that has easy access to higher skiing. Many folk find lugging ski equipment to and fro lifts really difficult at first so if budget is not an issue perhaps go for accommodation that provides a personal chauffeur service to lifts. A good provider will know which lifts/area to head for to maximise best snow and although you may need to taylor this to a personal ski instructor willing to move around with you, all things are possible depending on your budget! I know of several in France but not in Austria though I`d guess they exist.

With a personal driver service (or your own/hire car) you can stay somewhere traditionally pretty with extras that many first timers will appreciate, such as swimming pool, sauna, shopping and restaurant proximity. If the skiing is then compromised by bad weather there is still plenty to do to make it a fun Christmas

We always took our caravan so had huge flexibility as to where to go very last minute, and having our own transport really gave us flexibility on a daily basis. That being said we have had some pretty grotty weather holidays at Xmas when all the Alps suffered and even some bad years right bang in the middle of the season and our kids certainly appreciated the 'other' activities available! Last Xmas (with our now grown up family) saw us in a large apartment in Alp 2000, careful choice of chalet location gave us fantastic views, swimming pool, sauna, ice skating etc good skiing despite it being a bad start to the season but no way could you describe it as a traditionally pretty alpine resort.

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I can only speak for Saas Fee but it certainly fits your criteria. It is a very traditionally picturesque, car free village which is about as snow sure as you will get. There are three ski schools and loads of restaurants of all types to choose from. The beginners slopes are in the village so some accommodation is only 100m away.

Beginner slopes tend to lack sunshine at that time of year but there are some easy slopes a cablecar ride away which get sun. Some of the accommodation can be quite a way from the lifts so careful choice is recommended.

Elizabeth B is right that the top of the ski area can cause a few people problems but there is plenty for beginners below 2,500m so it's generally not an issue. As Elizabeth says, Saas Grund has a nice ski area which is very beginner friendly, though it does take a gondola ride to get there. The village is not, in my opinion, as pretty as Saas Fee ( but then I am biased!!) but the ski area does have the advantage of more sunshine at that time of year. You have to watch the opening dates, though, as Saas Grund normally only opens just before Christmas. The lift passes are fairly interchangeable between Saas Fee, Saas Grund and Saas Almagell.

Wherever you choose, it will certainly be different to a barbie on Bondi beach!

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Kylieaus, an interesting list.

Cortina is not IMO picture perfect, it's a proper town, not just a ski resort. But it's nice enough.

Saas Fee is rather more built up in Swiss fashion, again, wouldn't be one of my picks purely on aesthetics.

I'd say Muerren over Wengen if in Bernese Oberland but beginners skiing might not be so extensive. Both are pretty and just what extent does a beginner need?

Food generally better and better value for money in Italy.

Courmayeur is quite attractive as is Champoluc. The latter is at ~1,600 and generally will have snow in the streets at Xmas.

I'd also look at some of the smaller Austrian resorts, who apparently get early snow despite being typically lower than equivalents in FR/CH/IT.

Back on aesthetics, bear in mind that often you are looking up at mountains not down at pavements.

snow reports

Obergurgl is the place, it's magical!!! When I was younger, we always used to go for Christmas and there was always snow as it is the highest parish in Austria. It is small and compact and links to Hoghgurgl. It is also only a half an hour's bus ride to Solden. If you're looking for a white Christmas, with all the Alpine charm, you will find it in Obergurgl

I'd read all of the posts so far and was just wondering why nobody had mentioned Obergurgl....Then I got to Katia's post.
I can't imagine first timers - especially ones travelling from the other side of the world - to find it less than magical. And whether money's no object or not, it'll be a fair wack cheaper than Swiss resorts.

A further plus is village-level snow. As the resort is at 2000m that would be as good as guaranteed at Christmas. Very Happy

You know it makes sense.

Doesn't look that magical to me. Not a tree in sight and modern, functional buildings.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Compare - Maria Alm.

A snowHead

Kylieaus, Welcome to the planets biggest collection of self-appointed sliding experts snowHead

There are loads of places as you already realise but I also agree with pam w that you need to decide on your priorities.

If snow on the ground in the village is it then you will have to head high. Pretty much wherever you go it will have direct access and blue runs to the village but don't expect much else to do but ski?

Also note that there are no 'green' runs in Austria, that doesn't mean they are steeper to start with, just that they only use the blue, red and black gradings

Zell am See and some of the others are 'all-year round' towns and commercial centres and will have lots of shops and other activities apart from skiing but you will have a 30-40% chance of a green Xmas in the town itself. I would think there would be nothing worse than a snowless town scene to shatter your illusions and provided the contrasting Xmas you are seeking?

As beginners, unless you're all pretty fit to start with you'll be very tired at the end of the day and relaxing in a nice hotel and watching snow falling in the festive atmosphere might be all you're capable of. Obergurgl has some very nice hotels.

So, I would go to Obergurgl. If there is no snow there by Xmas we're all stuffed! Shocked

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

In my experience beginners are the people least interested in all the activities other than skiing. As robboj says, lessons and practice afterwards, and walking around carrying lots of heavy equipment, is tiring. But it's so much fun, and your learning curve at the beginning is so steep, that you will probably just want to ski all the hours possible, then collapse. Personally I don't much like hotels, especially "smart" ones with lots of spa and other facilities. But most people love them! Italy and Austria seem to have a wider range of hotels than France, which has more choice of rented apartments (from the bargain basement to the absurdly luxurious) and catered chalets.

By the way I agree with under a new name, there is no way that Cortina is a "picture perfect Alpine village". Also, it tends to be quite a schlep from accommodation to the slopes. If you want to go to the Dolomites (and the scenery is unsurpassed) there are lots of smaller, more convenient, picturesque places. Though few with as many impossibly expensive shops selling works of art and mink-lined trench coats.

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This is Belle Plagne - French purpose built, high, pretty well guaranteed snow at Christmas, excellent beginner skiing and a huge area. Not a traditional mountain village but compares quite reasonably to Obergurgl in the architecture stakes, and has a few trees.

Personally, I'd prefer not to go to either - the points about very cold, bleak, weather are well made.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

One more not mentioned is Igls which is above Innsbruck. the resort itself is not that high but you have the Stubia Glacier nearby and not too far away is the hintertux Glacier. Plus all the amenities of a large town/city Innsbruck. You also have the Olympic facilities.

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We are talking about 'a white Christmas in Europe for absolute beginners'. I could be biased, but Obergurgl was the first place I went to as a beginner in the very late seventies. The hotels were not so plush in those days and where the Festkogel Gondala is now, there was a one man chair, which you went up with a blanket over you. I remember staying at a 'hotel' where you had to share bathrooms and had about two or three inches of water for a price. I still found it magical! I had never seen anything as beautiful in my life as the mountains and the twinkling lights of the village as we skied down in the semi darkness at 4.30pm. It is far more modern now, but I don't think anyone could fail to be enchanted by the town and it's wonderful atmosphere.
Just re-read my post and should say "we used to live in a paper bag" (Monty Phython)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I've not skied Obergurgl (and have no axe to grind) but have recommended it to a number of friends based on great reports from other friends and colleagues.

Everyone I know whose tried it comes back raving about how great it is - pretty village (the reality on the ground apparently - remember, snow covers a lot of sins, so a high altitude village in the snow may be prettier than a chocolate box village in the valley), excellent ski school, great hotels, family friendly atmosphere, convenient skiing etc.

I've never heard anyone return from it (and I must have a dozen friends who've skied the place now) suggesting its remotely ugly. I concur with Katia, I think the OP can have it all. However, it depends if price is a constraint since that wasn't mentioned...

Also, I think there might be a bit of selective image choice going on here. Try this one with a few more trees and even a church spire...:

After all it is free

snowdave, as you say, snow hides a multitude of sins; such as architecture of "if we sort of make it look vaguely alpine even if over-inflated it'll look fine in the snow and we can get 30 apartments into it" school.

Not that it's without its larger and newer buildings but I think you'd need to go far to get more chocolate box-y than Mürren for example,

snowdave, yes, not saying it's a bad place - just that it's remarkably like a high French purpose built resort. It's just an Austrian one. I have nothing against purpose built resorts - they were built for a reason and they have a number of advantages - good snow record, ski in/out. I have an apartment in one (though it's prettier than most and not very high, at 1650). I've recommended it to people looking for a good resort for beginners but would never recommend it to somebody looking for a picture perfect Alpine village. Les Saisies, where my apartment is, only dates from the 1970s. Nowt traditional about it because traditionally people didn't live up at 1650m - they just went up with the cows in summer. That doesn't stop resort publicists from spouting on about "tradition" and "heritage" of course. wink

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under a new name, +1 Murren is definitely top of my wish list for places to visit (and Wengen). I hear it's just as pretty without the snow cover.

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If you are looking for the "big mountain scenery experience" as well as traditional buildings then Murren would be terrific. Not been there in winter but the whole area is stunning. Not as convenient as lots of places but - there is no destination that has everything.

ALQ, Wengen and Murren both pretty in summer or winter, I find Grindelwald prettier in summer when the traffic is not turning the snow to grey slush

You know it makes sense.

I would really recomment "Where to SKi and Snowboard" - the book plus website - there are good reliable shortlists (eg best green runs, best sceery, best for families - in the end though Xmas in the mountains is magical in most places and msot places do loads for families.

As you are a family of 4 beginners who develop at different speeds, I would not underenstimate the magical value of good long green runs (with no surprises) served by a gondola (or detachable chairlift) - for me Courcheval (1850) wins that that one hands down IMV (Obergurgl and Montgenevre second) plus swimming pool (in the hotel) and access to a good toboggan run.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I would have said la tania/couch 1850, great for beginners even some of the blues are easy enough after a week, plenty of trees, and looks good in the snow imho.

But he didn't want france Wink

A snowHead

D G Orf, Pics of Lauterbrunnen look spectacular too. For several years now, I've had a secret plan for a summer hiking holiday and (since the MSB stopped) a lengthy Christmas-New Years ski trip to the area (subject to sufficient snow). Just wish the cuisine (and prices) were less Swiss and more Italian Little Angel

A snowHead

Little Martin, I think the nursery slope in Courchevel 1850 (IIRC it's near the altiport?) is the best I've seen anywhere. A great place to learn and so much to progress to. OK if you are on full board, or properly self-catering, but prices for the odd coffee and croissant can be truly eye-watering.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ALQ, Can't do much about the weak pound (thus prices) but Muerren actually offers quite a lot of cuisine these days that's not sooooo Swiss. Ema has updated the menu (and wine list) significantly at the Eiger Guest house to make it more modern European instead of antique Bernese. There is a dodgy (well, it looks dodgy) Chinese. And the chicken in a basket at the Jägerstübli (Hotel Bellevue) is most errr, heart attacking.

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Hi Everyone,
Thank you all so much for your comments and recommendations. I really appreciate it.
Will have a look at all of those places mentioned.
To be honest - all of the places look absolutely gorgeous when they are covered by snow Very Happy

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Kylieaus, how about Passo Tonale in the Brenta Dolomite area of Italy, 2.5 hr transfer from Verona, resort on a high mountain pass, virtually guaranteed snow at Xmas, several 4star ski in / out or easy access piste hotels, very easy blue runs for beginners, the same lift pass covers the linked resort (by gondala) of Ponte Di Legno with harder tree lined reds and blacks together with a glacier with some easy and challenging runs.

Have stayed the last 3 xmas holidays and have always had good snow. Also only 45 minutes to other Brenta Dolomite resorts ie Folgarida and Maddona Di Campligio.

Also, another vote for the Where to Ski and Snowboard guide with excellent coverage of nearly all resorts

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

ALQ, because Lauterbrunnen is deep in the valley bottom it gets very little sunlight in winter, in the summer though its very nice

I've always found the cuisine to be very good in the area, it's not all sausage and rosti

After all it is free

D G Orf, it is...

Help!!

White Christmas in Europe for absolute beginners

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