 Poster: A snowHead
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Excerpt from SKI CLUB ARTICLE :
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| It was also the first major championship to utilise the change to the children’s start order, an initiative designed to both reduce the inherent advantage afforded to earlier starters, and also to better prepare young racers for the bumpy, rutted courses which they are likely to encounter when the start out on the full international circuits. |
Yesterday's GS races were run in appalling conditions ( torrential rain first thing). Buckets of salt were used to harden the course a little but at 1400 metres the Méribel Centre slalom stadium is perhaps not the best place to hold a national competition in April!
The system suggested by Snowsport GB in the above quote is fine in theory, but in order to accommodate the maximum possible number of entrants (an admirable aim in itself), the competitor standards in the British Children's Championships do vary considerably. A lack of seeding for the reasons given makes sense, and mirrors the regional systems in France where a random draw is frequently used. Here in the Tarentaise Valley it is seen as the best way to prepare younger children for the rigours of competition they'll face in the future, and to teach them how to handle the worst of conditions. However in France competitors' technical standards are relatively homogenous.
Monday, on more than one occasion, we witnessed the negative side. With a thirty second gap between starts, and some skiers approaching twice the speed of others, the inevitable consequence of one racer catching up with another is produced. What to do... overtake? Stop, leave the course, ask for a re-run? Louisa Russell-Henry was faced with this dilemma. Having drawn an early bib number she races a cracker and knows she's in with a chance of winning. But six gates before the end she catches the previous runner, hesitates, decides she can't overtake, pulls up. Ok she is awarded a re-run, but with conditions deteriorating, tired legs, another dozen or more participants going down the increasingly rutted course in the meantime, she manages a creditable time but only second place. She knows that silver could have been gold.
Stick with the system, Snowsport GB, it's the right one! I agree it results in the best schooling for 'real' conditions later in a racing career. But use a little judgement. Don't stick with the hard and fast 30 second rule. If a racer sets off slowly, leave a bigger gap! Surely it's as simple as that?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PG, Good points and sensible request. Correct me if I am wrong, but in the adult competition I thought the runners were seeded, but then had to go down in reverse order for the second run. I have never seen a skier catch up with a previous runner. How do they avoid it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It does depend on the competition - not all races have seeding, some apply the system you mention. The trouble is that if a top skier has always had a high start number as a youngster when he moves up a category (and competition gets harder and harder as you do so and find yourself racing against the best regional, then national, and if you're lucky, international skiers) you drop way back down the start order, often in races upwards of 150 participants. If all you know is how to do well on perfect snow as one of the first ones out of the start gate, you'll be in big trouble when it comes to the serious stuff!
Catching up with the guy in front of you shouldn't happen in a Championship competition (or indeed in any quality race) because in theory participants are approved through their points standing in their national races and must be of a minimum standard. That, and/or seeding applies. Ironically on the question of equivalence, both Hannah and Louisa, who race in France only, had to have letters from their trainers stating that their skiing was of a sufficiently high standard to take part in the British Championships! Apparently the identical French points system and their race results in France provided insufficient proof in the eyes of the powers that be.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| PG wrote: |
both Hannah and Louisa, who race in France only, had to have letters from their trainers stating that their skiing was of a sufficiently high standard to take part in the British Championships!
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Yes PG, it is crazy, but nearly universal that one country rejects another country's qualifications. In medicine we get experienced doctors from India and Eastern Europe with MDs and loads of experience, but we force them back into training grades and insist they take our exams. Similar motives have I suggest been behind all the hoohah over British Instructors working in France.
Any new of how Hannah has done in Val D today?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree about Meribel. It's usually slushed out by April.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can someone explain the results on the Ski Club website... I don't understand ski racing. What is slalom race 1 and slalom race 2?
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Do you want the serious answer or the flippant one? The latter is that I'm not sure the organisers do either in not a few races I've been to! (Not a reflection on the Brits, as most races I've been to have been in France and various other European countries...)
Seriously though, Snowsport GB decide the guidelines and set out the rules in advance. In this instance for slalom and GS it was to be an unseeded competition. The British Champion in each discipline is decided on combined times from each 'race'. However there are points awarded on the strength of each run, and a podium/medals awarded for the winners of each. Technically it's possible for the British champion to have not been on the podium for either race! (eg if the top three in one run crash in the second, and vice versa)....
Two courses are set side by side. In slalom/GS 1 course they race the younger girls category (91/92s) first, followed by the Children II girls (89/90s). The boys follow the same system over on the other course. Then for race 2 they switch sides (the course wasn't reset, not enough time/poor conditions etc). Thus the boys do their race 2 in the girls' original course, the girls in the boys.
For some obscure reason the rules for today's SuperG were completely different. This time there were 15 seeds in each category, boys/girls, drawn for the first 60 bibs. All the boys and girls remaining were mixed together in a draw for the remaining places and the whole lot of them sent off down the one course that had been set. Given that the snow was still in very poor condition any of the good kids that weren't seeded (including winners over the two previous days) hadn't a chance. Glad we weren't there!
That's probably confused you even more.
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Jonpim, Not a clue... pre-qualifiers (no news) this morning, qualifiers taking place right now. It's been chucking it down, and the Val d'Isère stadium is really high up, so you have to get lucky for your runs to be able to see where you're going. That's ski racing for you, the elements play a big part. For those that get through, the international finals (slalom and Super G) are tomorrow and Thursday. (Non-French entries are put straight into these races, so there will be some British names there!)
On the points thing, the way they are calculated means that the systems and standards are virtually identical, whether French FFS, British BASS, or International FIS points.
UPDATE.... kleenex and sticking plasters at the ready, got through to the semis but picked a white-out for her run, narrowly missed out. Just goes to show the difference in levels between the two countries when you look at this result from yesterday in the British!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The letters from coach practice isn't only where the races were in a different country. If a mini (currently born 1994 or earlier) wants to compete in the all England champs (on plastic) then they need a letter from a coach to say they are safe, even if they have skied in most of the club nationals with good times.
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Jane L, Didn't know that. Interesting, because the only minis races I've been to (run in tandem with the British Children's Champs in Austria 2 and 3 years ago, were open to all, with no need to prove standards. Even at today's Minis race in Méribel I'm pretty sure there were no official checks. Originally it was to have been yesterday after the GS, but the TD reckoned it was too dangerous given the conditions. Fair enough, given that a fair number of them were falling over during the course inspection!
I remember back in Austria 2002 it was run over the course that had just been skied by some 200 Children 1 & 2, late afternoon, so it was by no means easy.
(Think it's 93 and later for the Minis at the moment, next season it'll be 94....)
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