 Poster: A snowHead
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Hoping to get away on December 20th. Last year seemed light on snow by that point of the season.
Any tips or recommendations to help avoid disappointment?
Just a week away, so only Europe on the agenda.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jenniper, it's always a bit shaky around then. For guaranteed snow go somewhere with a glacier - e.g. tignes. Be aware it's not a super high season week but probably still quite busy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You don't need a glacier at Xmas. In the last 3yrs we've done La Plagne, Avoriaz & La Tania with no snow issues. My choice would be La Plagne.
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SnowMonkey69, La Plagne has a glacier!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You don't really ned to go up to the glacier to find reasonable snow in La Plagne over the Christmas week. We've always managed reasonable skiing at Christmas for the last 12 years and don't remember going up to the glacier so early in the season. It has varied from thin cover but still skiable to excellent powder conditions.
Jenniper, I'd look for an area with plenty of pistes at a high level rather than just a glacier.
Christmas week is relatively quiet (when compared to New Year week), it usually starts to go busy after Boxing Day.
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America or Canada
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Eastern Switzerland or Austria are fairly reliable and fairly quiet that particular week. The further east you go the less reliant you need to be on "going high" and the "must have a glacier" criteria. Yes a glacier helps but to be honest if you have to use it, so does every other bugger in the whole region, so it is as crowded as hell.
I've skied at Christmas in most of the Alpine countries for the past 30 + years or more (actually lost count now, the last Christmas I remember in the UK was back in 1973 I think I was still a student and had to work).
Using last winter as an example, we had good snow in Salzburgerland from the end of November right through to early January. It was not mega, nor was there much in the valleys but on the slopes it was good. The widespread acceptance of snow-making and the expertise with which it is used meant that we had a very long season despite the warm temperatures and the lack of snow storms. I doubt if other places are much different these days as most ski areas have invested a lot in this technology because the local economy relies on the income over the winter months.
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Jenniper, places I have skied the week BEFORE Christmas and had good snow have been Courchevel, Obergurgl and St Anton, another that I have done early season that should be pretty reliable is Zermat.
Though obviously one seasons snow is no guarantee for another season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I like the idea of Zermatt or Austria - something tells me it will be very festive in Austria and I've heard Zermatt is pretty (bit put off by the cost but the exchange rate is improving at the moment).
If the need for higher pistes is less in Austria then I'll explore that.
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NickyJ, I've skied the weekend of 10 Dec in great snow, but I surely wouldn't rely on it.
Xmas week across much of France this year was positively tricky with off piste looking like April...
Anyhoo... OP asked, "Last year seemed light on snow by that point of the season. Any tips or recommendations to help avoid disappointment? "
So suggesting that Xmas is anything other than shaky when the OP's experience of last year's (admittedly poor start) proves that completely wrong is less than helpful.
A glacier is one way to improve the odds in your favour (although who wants to ski on glaciers anyway?).
I am liking Sue's advice re Austria (although in 1933 Kitzbuhel town council decided against advertising Xmas week for Winter Sports as the snow wasn't reliable enough)
Would I book at Xmas myself if a major criterium was good snow? Probably not. Would I book a ski holiday at Xmas if I was booking a Xmas holiday? Probably.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 15-06-14 12:22; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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oh and snow making only works if it's cold enough, which was another factor in this last seasons slow start in the Northern Alps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My son skied Val Thorens in the week before christmas the last 2 years and the whole family went to Les Arcs over christmas. Plenty of snow. Christmas 2012 involved a lot of effort to dig the car out at the end of the week and 2013 was a bit easier with only a half metre of fresh snow to shift.
We have skied Christmas week every year for the last 15 or 20 years (usually to France) and perhaps only had one year when the snow was a bit dodgy. With most resorts investing in massive snow making it is now very unlikely that you will have a disappointing holiday but the off piste is rarely in top condition until the end of January.
My experience is that Christmas ranks below New year and the 4 half term weeks in terms of business, but I would hardly describe it as "quiet"
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You know it makes sense.
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If Zermatt seems expensive, have a look at Cervinia - you can ski that same area although perhaps some of the further corners of the area might be difficult to get to and back in a day. Especially if the lift up from Trockener Steg closes early (2.30pm when we spent Christmas in Cervinia a couple of years back).
Sella Ronda should be relatively safe too if you fancy Italy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skichampcouk, Agreed - plenty of snowsure terrain in La Plagne without the glacier.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Samerberg Sue, I think I said "across much of France" didn't I? There was most excellent snow e.g. in Champoluc (IT) for Xmas week (we nearly skied weekend of Nov 30 but were reconstructing).
It all very much depends on your definition of good snow of course. In our experience, the vast majority of our clients are happy if:
- it's sunny
- the pistes are groomed and firm
- it's not too cold
- closest beginner slopes are open for easy kiddie management
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arc 2000 was fine for both the week before Xmas and the Xmas week 2013. La Rosiere was fine the year before but looking across the valley at it last year it did not look too brilliant. La Plagne was fine 2013 too as my boys went over there a couple of times from Arc 2000.
In times past Xmas week skiing was spent somewhere in the caravan but we always chose where to go very last minute, depending on where the best snow conditions looked to be. I can`t ever remember a year that you could not ski somewhere. Maybe if there is only a couple of you, you could consider leaving booking to very last minute if you are driving? Someone other than me will know the practicalities of that in terms of places to stay!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Damn I forgot where I was two years ago...... Norway. Hemsedal will be ideal
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Baqueira over in the Pyrenees has always produced for us. A lovely area.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Go high.
Last year was a good example. Lots of precipitation but quite warm. Val Thorens had lots of snow from 1st week December and kept it through the season. Had some friends who poo poo ed the altitude thing and went to Les Gets. They have booked Val Thorens for this season.
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| emwmarine wrote: |
Go high.
Last year was a good example. Lots of precipitation but quite warm. Val Thorens had lots of snow from 1st week December and kept it through the season. Had some friends who poo poo ed the altitude thing and went to Les Gets. They have booked Val Thorens for this season. |
+1
I was in Morzine at New years. Rain rain rain. Pleney side was distinctly average. Christmas in Val Disere was decent to good once the snow hit christmas day
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emwmarine, kioksor, that was in Haute Savoie - other areas were luckier and had snow! In some cases lots of it but the media ignored that fact. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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last Christmas in Bourg st Maurice-Les Arcs was fine good snow not too busy either
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Samerberg Sue is right - Austria is great at Christmas and pretty snow sure. I was in Lech last Christmas and 90% of the runs were open and in great condition. Off pistes was non-existent but I think that's true of practically everywhere at that time of year. I've also had great Christmas weeks in Obergurgl, Zillertal and Obertauern. The two Obers are high, smallish but very convenient. The Zillertal has a vast ski area but you need to drive/bus/train to get the most out of it. This year we're going to Serfaus for Christmas and Zell am Ziller for New Year. There is a glacier at the top of the Zillertal but I've never bothered going up to it. Kaprun has a glacier that has some decent skiing on it, Solden has a glacier that's extremely dull.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Of the French resorts, I think Les Arcs would be a good option for Christmas. It is high enough for there to be a good chance of decent snow but has a good number of tree lined runs (in case of snow or low visibility). Vallandry best placed for tree lined skiing but I would guess that Le Village Arc 1950 would be more festive.
I have not yet skied Christmas week but have done a few New Year trips. Val Thorens is very snow sure but also bleak at that time of year. La Rosiere had very good early season snow when we went but the lifts are on the slower side and you notice that when it is bitterly cold and windy!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Samerberg Sue, I think you make a valid point. The UK media think that the alps start at Morzine and end at the EK/3Vs. Although that is not the end of their stupidity... 
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There is no firm fixed rule.
Snowmaking has ensured that tourist reliant resorts are ready by Xmas and New Year.
Main pistes will be open and there will be enough skiing to enjoy for 6 days.
Snowmakers can operate from about 3 degrees Celsius.
I have a little chuckle about the controversies of booking a week at Xmas compared to the simplicities of booking a week over the New Year; as that difference of seven days seems to be far more important than anyone can possibly imagine!
It is also hard to battle with the press about the whole 'must go high' argument.
But this often equates to 'must go high' = 'must pay loads' = 'can't be that bothered to do any research or believe anyone but an expensive TO or an advertorial based ski report.'
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You know it makes sense.
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The must go high argument is simple basic physics and it does work.
This season just finished is a good example. After a fair amount of snow very early in the season, I think we were out in VT at the end of November, the unusual warmth left many resorts struggling with no snow and temperatures too warm to make snow. Val Thorens held up through this period and although off piste was very very thin, the pistes never suffered.
Early in the season the snow line is clear. This year you could look down the valley at the end of november and see the snow line just between les menuires and VT.
What many people also forget is that it is at the end of the season where the altitude counts most. The snow around the 10th May was as good as it had been all season.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Another vote for Les Arcs here, been over Christmas for the past 4 years and there's always been plenty of snow and (what seems like) half the people you get the following week (new year). Last year was probably the worst snow year out of the 4, but the 3 previous years were pretty epic, so it's not much of a comparison. We normally go for 10 days so we have Christmas week and up to new years eve.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Evening all.
Thanks for all the input. Lots of different opinions which indicate to me there are no hard and fast rules. I think the difference (in France, anyway) in the last two years also proves that.
I think we'd probably be safe if we aim high in France, but we have done France for the last few years (we even go to Les Arcs for our summer holiday!) and my husband is yet to experience the delight that is skiing in Austria, so think we will try and head that way. If possible it would also be nice to stay in a more 'traditional' town, rather than modern, purpose built resort so we still get some Christmas spirit. The advice above gives me confidence that we can be hopeful for snow.
I just need to look at different resorts now to see what's on offer!
Thanks again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jenniper, I hope you enjoy Les Arcs in the summer. Where are you staying? I think it is a fantastic summer resort with lots going on. I am going on Friday night for a week.
What do you mean by "christmas spirit"? If it the rampant consumerism of the UK then luckily you will not find it. If it is midnight mass then even the high resorts offer it. If it closing down early on Christmas eve then once again most resorts offer it.
Generally I find the more relaxed atmosphere to Christmas (you must have turkey and get drunk at lunch) much nicer out of the UK.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Schladmings snowmaking is impressive, for a few years we went for new year or the weekend before or after and were never disapointed. It's not the prettiest town though for a christmas visit. Radstadt nearby is (imo) if you don't mind a bus in the morning.
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johnE, we always camp in Bourg and spend two weeks mountain biking. It's a great place in summer, really beautiful.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Jenniper, have you thought of Innsbruck?
You have all the delights of a small city on your doorstep and several resorts close to hand all covered on the same lift pass?
It's a different holiday to staying in one resort, we did it a couple of years ago and really enjoyed our time there. I imagine the city would be a winter wonderland at Christmas.
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That sounds interesting - will look into it! I might struggle to get my other half away from ski-in, ski-out though 
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That sounds interesting - will look into it! I might struggle to get my other half away from ski-in, ski-out though
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Not a great deal of accommodation offers this in Austria; yes it exists but you will pay massively for it compared to a hotel or guest house without ski-in/out.
If it is just the couple of you I would consider Innsbruck too... it will be like a city break with skiing with massive advent markets and a lot of Xmassy buzz about it!
a.j., ... not that I don't like Radstadt of course!
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we always camp in Bourg and spend two weeks mountain biking. It's a great place in summer, really beautiful.
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A blue, a red or a black home run, which do you choose? I haven't the courage to do the black, the red is lovely and the blue too many dusty tracks to villaroger for my taste.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
we always camp in Bourg and spend two weeks mountain biking. It's a great place in summer, really beautiful.
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A blue, a red or a black home run, which do you choose? I haven't the courage to do the black, the red is lovely and the blue too many dusty tracks to villaroger for my taste. |
Ah yes - the infamous Black 8! Have ridden it many a time but to be honest we tend to stick to the walker trails around the valley - they are even more tricky than Black 8! Never any people around - truly blissful.
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The husband has decided that we shall take a gamble on our Christmas holiday and book last minute.
Pros - we should be able to choose some good snow?
Cons - only poor accommodation and expensive flights available?
Has anyone any experience of this?
(And I was so looking forward to going to St Foye to stay with White Room  )
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