Steep and deep - Japan or USA?

A snowHead

I'm planning a 2 week blow out trip next winter with best chances possible of big snow but also steep terrain.

Japan is on the radar for the deepness but from what I can gather from searching on here and elsewhere it may disappoint on the steepness.

Is that an accurate assessment? Would somewhere in the US be a better bet for steep and "gnarly"...?

A snowHead

hd, from what I hear about Japan, yes... as a generalisation

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

There are places in Japan you can get to for some steep pitches but you generally will need to hike/skin into them, I've been 3 times now in January and it has been unreal as far as snow fall goes.

Even with out the steepness it is an amazing place to ski .Been to the states a few times in January but its been hit and miss as far fresh snow fall. (Went to Revelstoke area in Canada for 2 weeks and saw not one flake of snow fall!)

Its all about your luck, but if you want pow, then you considerably raise your chances going to Japan.

Very Happy

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I'd keep an eye on the development of El Nino before committing on a NA trip. For Steep n deep ( but short) then places like Squaw and Kirkwood can deliver, JH obviously and Aspen. North of the border - WB, Red, Revy and KH are top candidates with honourable mentions for Fernie,LL and if the history doesn't put you off Sunshine.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You're not gonna find much over 35 degrees, certainly over 40, for any length worth counting in Hokkaido without hiking, and even then you're still much more limited than in Europe (and presumably US/Canada) - especially if you go in 'pow season' as weather windows are short and unpredictable. Of the resorts I skied Teine and Asahidake probably offered the steepest lift-accessed stuff, but then again the lower half of Asahidake is flat. Equally due the sheer amount of snow, you probably don't want to be anywhere near steeper lines until later in the season... That said there are enough drops and pillows to push yourself pretty damn hard if you want. I hear the 'terrain park' (not a normal park) in Rusutsu is pretty gnar too.

For steep and gnarly go to the Alps. It's usually snowing or snowed recently somewhere, so if you're a little flexible on dates and very flexible on exact location you should be quite easily able to just rock up and score, if you don't mind dirt-bagging a bit. Get flights to somewhere reasonably central (Zurich?) and pretty much everywhere is within drivable distance.

From reports the US and Canada don't seem all THAT much more reliable than the Alps (some exceptions like Mt. Baker etc), especially as different parts of the Alps get affected by weather coming from different directions. If you get Föhn in the north, drive 2-3 hours south and it'll likely be cold and snowy (and vice versa). The difference in snow either side of the Brenner Pass most of this winter was ridiculous. I get the impression that you'd have to drive a lot more to get the same sort of weather variations over the Pond.

Really steep and deep? Probably looking at Alaska, and the cost and weather window issues that can entail.

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clarky999, North America has been very reliable for us in the past. We've been 4 times and always had very good snow. No doubt the Alps have some of the best terrain in the world but hit and miss is the best way to describe the weather normally IMHO, even over a wide radius, and we've had a total lack of dumpage on our visits over the last few years.

Interesting comments about Japan. Have to say it's moving lower on my list of must visit destinations. Deep must be accompanied by steep snowHead

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Hi Dave and Clarky

Clarky has got it pretty well right and Dave is wrong by leaving any booking for El Nino as you miss some great deals by delaying in reliable snow sure America.Generally the snow conditions over the pond are far superior than Europe with " drier snow" you can only dream of in Europe, which takes days and not hours to get tracked out..Having been going 20 years to both I think I should know what the snow is like in comparison and no more so than last year which was truly stunning.Went to Breck in April and then Val Thorens the week after.No comparison.Breckenridge won hands down.Aspen,Jackson and Whistler have the steeper stuff with Utah offering some great options and Vail offering awesome intermediate terrain.Never been to Japan but heard good reports.The big thing more me and the wife is relative lack of people in treeline skiing up to 11,500 ft.Just bought my Epic seasons ski pass from American Ski Holidays which covers this years trips to Vail,St Anton and the 3 Valleys.

Brightspark

After all it is free

clarky999, i am liking your post snowHead

under a new name, that probably makes a change Laughing

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brightspark, talk to people who booked a fortnight in snowsure Tahoe this Jan or have ever been rained out of Whistler or been underwhelmed in Utah this past season. Storms split or get blocked in systems which can set up for weeks on end. Yes when a system hits it can be epic but there are few guarantees. I did the same as you - was in Colo late March and Val T for Easter. Both equally good as there was a fair mix of fresh and spring snow - if anything the average day in Val T was better.

As for days not hours you're clearly talking about a different Vail. Somewhere like Whitefish or 49 North you might have your own private mountain but not somewhere that flogs the most season passes in the world.

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clarky999, not really wink

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under a new name, Haha good to know!

You know it makes sense.

What he said, there's a reason it sticks to those slopes in Ak. Pay your money, make your choice.

Also the weather thing is a game for people with short memories and kids. Any resort you can name has had bad snow periods - if you book in advance, that's what you'll get if you do it enough.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Jackson Hole for 14 days ALWAYS delivers. Look at the stats. You'll on average get more fresh snow than most places. I've done seven 14 day trips there and the least I've had is about 1m of snow ! Late Jan, early Feb the dates I've always gone. Next year is looking more Enso neutral and JH is a safe bet then. More so than El Nino. La Nina, book up fast wink

A snowHead

You want deep?

Niseko had around 15.5m of snow last season, and this was considered something of a poor year.
Most of Europe was 3.5m or so.

That Niseko stuff is the dry, fluffy powder of your dreams.

You want reliability?
It snowed for something like 25/30 days in January (as an example).
When we were there in lat feb and early march it snowed continuously (24hrs a day) for 9 days. Sometimes light, sometimes heavy....but it never stopped.

Of course...for you it MUST be steep, obviously there is no fun to be had otherwise....oh. wait!:

http://youtube.com/v/xYZC8eswpCw

A snowHead

How about blowing out a little more by doing only 8-10 days in Canada but 4 of them heli? I did a trip that involved 3 days "warming up" at Kicking Horse (plenty steep), 4 days heli at Mica Creek (plenty steep depending on your ability and avy risk) then a day at LL on the way back to Calgary. I'm suggesting a shorter trip assuming budget is finite but bear in mind that you will probably do twice the vertical and >10x the untracked on a day heli skiing than lift served.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

rungsp, that trip has to be made sometime, snow instead of sunshine is good by me. Meeting up with your son and friends must have really made your time there special.

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balernoStu, you have to go. It is Mega+1.

The other selling point is how surprisingly cheap it is.

For the OP the airfares are not so different from the UK but cost of skiing/living in Hokkaido versus USA is a no brainer. Japan is really reasonable, much cheaper than most of Europe. That was something I did not expect.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Alex A, it didn't in March 2007. Worst conditions I've ever skied with half the mountain shut. Unfortunately had pre-booked so nowt I could do about it.

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Having lived in Tahoe (Reno), Whistler and Banf and skied extensively in NA - and having done a bit of skiing in Japan but a whole lot of research (my wife is Japanese so we will end up skiing over there a fair bit in the future) I would say if you have to pre book go to Hokkido - get a hire car and go where the snow is - the upper mountain in Niseko can get shut down by wind but elsewhere within an hour or 2's drive something will be in good skiable conditions - you won't find that in the whole USA + Canada

If you want real gnar - just come to Chamonix, ski out the door on the Aiguille du Midi and turn left, otherwise don't ask for steep, just enjout the deep Wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Hmm

Never thought Tahoe as that snowsure but it does have a good record though this last season wasnt brilliant, to say the least.When it snows it tends to dump a lot.I have been in Whistler at the end of March a number of years ago when it rained top to bottom without stopping for 2 days, but also skied in awesome conditions at that time too more recently.I have skied the 3 Valleys and once wasnt able to get out of Meribel in Jan due to lack of snow and personally I would have an average day in Vail than an average day in Val Thorens and certainly this last season the snow in Utah,Wyoming and Colorado was fantastic all season.Also if Vail wants to flog Seasons passes that save me money, allowing me to ski the Arlberg,3 Valleys,Japan ,Tahoe,Utah and Verbier, then I am one happy camper willing to buy as it makes financial sense, given you can ski a few weeks a year.The comments re Jackson Hole are spot on and such great value, apart from the cost of getting there.

After all it is free

Comparing Vail to Val Thorens? U serious?

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I second jester if you want to ski in North America. have done that combo several times.

however I absolutely loved Hokkaido and think every skier who loves powder should go. really, the only downside with Japan was the relative lack of vertical. too many benefits of the trip to make that an issue. not forgetting that if you have skied North America and Europe Japan gives you an absolute change and contrast which I think is perfect for a special trip.

We also have a road trip around Jackson Hole and Alaska on our list of to dos.

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Steep and deep - Japan or USA?

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